Wow, another win for Obama. North Korea halts nuclear testing and will come to table

[Ausm]

Dude, I was being serious. I call knee jerk reaction!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_Cardholders'_Bill_of_Rights

Damn....I apologize next time please include more information like this.

 

[fskimospy]

btw I say fuck aid to North Korea unless they want to completely surrender control to the South. Enough of the shit. they can starve and die if they don't like it. they can bring war of desperation if they want, but history will never think kindly of North Korea.

What a horrible idea.

 

[Nintendesert]

Who knows, but we'll see how this shakes out.

Of course this has nothing to do with Obama or the US.

From the article:



Yes, this brave man who diplomatically died. Okey doke.

Maybe Obama had Kim Jung-Il assassinated?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I believe President Obama would never get credit for anything from the right no matter what it is...case in point bagging OBL.

It has nothing to do with being a Democrat or Republican. Two factors at play here:

1. Dear Leader kicked the bucket and this may be a legitimate gesture by the new regime.

2. More likely, this is just another stunt by NK to get more concessions. They've done this before.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I also heard he had 18 consecutive holes in 1.

Ah, but Dear Leader didn't poop. Does Obama poop?

 

[woolfe9999]

Who knows, but we'll see how this shakes out.

Of course this has nothing to do with Obama or the US.

From the article:



Yes, this brave man who diplomatically died. Okey doke.

You have it backwards, actually. The death caused a suspension of talks that were already under way before he died and were near conclusion.

The announcement follows talks in Beijing last week between US and North Korean negotiators, the first since negotiations were suspended after Kim's death in December from a heart attack.

Before his death, the US and North Korea were close to such an agreement, which appears to meets US preconditions for restarting the six-nation talks suspended three years ago.

If anything, Kim's death caused the agreement to be delayed.

I think more of the credit probably goes to Obama's diplomatic team, but then again, if Obama is to be blamed for anything bad that happens on his watch.... We've all been over this logic before, so I shouldn't have to complete the previous sentence.

- wolf

 

[GrumpyMan]

It's not Obama, it's Hillary. She is a goddess among men. And she promised them ipads if they would stop.

 

[Blackjack200]

Ipad 2

:sneaky:

 

[shira]

Who knows, but we'll see how this shakes out.

Of course this has nothing to do with Obama or the US.

From the article:

Yes, this brave man who diplomatically died. Okey doke.

So I have a question on the principle underlying the bolded statement: Does this mean that you would go out of your way to make the same point if - for example - the European Union couldn't get its act together and the PIIGS all defaulted on their debt, throwing the world economy (including the U.S.) into a deep depression?

Or how about if Al Qaeda got a nuclear device from Pakistan, placed it on a scud missile, and used it to destroy a major Saudi oil field, driving oil (and gasoline) prices through the roof? Would you make the same point?

Why is it I get the feeling that the right will blame Obama for anything bad that happens during his term of office, but doesn't give him credit for any good that happens during the same time period?

 

[Thump553]

Given that this has happened at least once a term for all the previous presidents back through Carter; it is better to see what happens 6 months from now rather than jump for joy.

Offers to talk if aid is provided.
Aid is provided, talks are stopped for one reason or another.

Rinse and repeat.

Possibly with a new leader in NK, this may be different. Not holding my breath.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. There is one potentially positive point though-that NK has re-entered negotiations so soon after Dear Leader's death. Most of the analysts at that time were speculating that no action of substance would come out of NK for months as various factions jockey for power and position, most particularly the newest Dear Leader.

Nuclear weapons are about the only trump card NK holds-they aren't going to give it up easily, if at all. The chances of another "deal" and subsequent breach by NK are sky high, but I don't think our diplomats and negotiators are so stupid as to expect otherwise.

 

[cybrsage]

Like others have said, NK does this every election cycle. They then break their promises within a few months.

 

[Fern]

If true, kudo's to Obama.

I'm curious what we're giving them for this, and we better keep a real close eye on them.

Fern

 

[dmcowen674]

Wow, another win for Obama. North Korea halts nuclear testing and will come to table

Damn that Obama, turning the economy around and using diplomacy to make the world safer for our children.

No way

If there is anything good it has to be thanks to Bush, Obama could not possibly do anything right.

 

[waggy]

good for Obama. he got the timing right. but NK has a pattern of stuff like this. in a year or so NK will be back at it.

frankly anyone that believes anything coming from NK is wel..goofy

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You have it backwards, actually. The death caused a suspension of talks that were already under way before he died and were near conclusion.



If anything, Kim's death caused the agreement to be delayed.

I think more of the credit probably goes to Obama's diplomatic team, but then again, if Obama is to be blamed for anything bad that happens on his watch.... We've all been over this logic before, so I shouldn't have to complete the previous sentence.

- wolf

I haven't anything backwards. When the "kid" took over from his father there was some conjecture if he would be able to consolidate power and live. Considering that just what do you think the chances of nuclear negotiations being uninterrupted? Nil. The only thing which has changed is the leader. Some may blame Obama if this falls through but if it does that simply means that the new management in NK is the same as the old. It will be nice if things work out but frankly NK couldn't care less if it's Bush, Obama or any of the others. It's up to the man at the top of their nation.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If true, kudo's to Obama.

I'm curious what we're giving them for this, and we better keep a real close eye on them.

Fern

As I just said why would there be kudos for anyone when the only person who would budge would be the new guy. I suppose you can give people marks for not screwing things up, but there is nothing new that forces NK to come to the table.

 

[Fern]

As I just said why would there be kudos for anyone when the only person who would budge would be the new guy. I suppose you can give people marks for not screwing things up, but there is nothing new that forces NK to come to the table.

Why kudo's? It's (likely) a positive development. I realize it's the culmination of a long US govt effort involving many people over a long period, but he's President so he gets credit. Sometimes that's fair, sometimes not, but IMO it's the reality of it.

Yes, they could have screwed this up. They still can. If we don't adequately verify we could end up with NK just conning us out of money/oil/food etc. with little-to-nothing gained for our side.

Given that Kim IL was supposedly close to an agreement before he died, the Admin's ability to go ahead and close the deal so soon is a positive development.

I agree there's probably a fair bit of luck, after Kim IL's death there could have been a power struggle, or a desire to look tough as the new leader thus preventing any deal. Those things are out of our control, so it was fortunate.

And I'd guess there was consensus in NK for this to happen. I don't see the 'new guy' overruling the entrenched hierarchy in NK.

But I'd say before anyone gets too carried away we need to see what we're going to give up.

Fern

 

[blackangst1]

If you remember, all the Fox hosts stated their congratulations for that... for Bush. Didn't mention Obama.

He just happened to be in office when Bush's plan - which included disbanding the unit hunting for bin Laden at the CIA before Obama made it a priority - got him.

You're deceptive and twisting the truth.

President Bush congratulates Obama on binLaden kill

Rush Limbaugh congratulates Obama on binLaden kill

Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld congratulate Obama on binLaden kill

Glenn Beck congratulates Obama on binLaden kill

Many conservatives commented that it was the continuation of Bush's policies that got him, which is true. But your assertion is deceptive at best.

 

[Lemon law]

Color me a skeptic too, NK has been playing the same game with Clinton, GWB, and now Obama. As I somewhat object to saying this is to Obama's credit, as the opportunity just fell into Obama's lap, as the New Korean poobah is dusting off his daddies strategy. We don't yet know if Obama will suck in or not. But still why should I hate the North Korean people who are victimized by leaders who are idiots. Nor can we blame all North Korean problems on their idiot leaders. Because a long standing regional drouth has decimated North Korea's ability to feed itself from its agricultural sector. As the only foreign balance of trade payments come to North Korea only in the form of foreign arms sales. Which is not enough to buy the food and fuel NK needs to survive.

What we really need in MHO, is a South Korean assimilation of North Korea in somewhat the same model of the West Geraman assimilation of East Germany. But given its against Chinese interests, its a far harder diplomatic nut to crack. But INMO is still doable, especially since the USA plays power football and China plays GO.

A distinction I fully expect will sail right over most on this forum.

 

[Nemesis 1]

good for Obama. he got the timing right. but NK has a pattern of stuff like this. in a year or so NK will be back at it.

frankly anyone that believes anything coming from NK is wel..goofy

I agree . If you believe NK your likely to believe dem-on lies as well.

 

[bfdd]

Do you understand that the people that are starving and the people in the military/govornment are not the same?

They are exactly the fucking same, what are you talking about? First off have you not seen anything on North Korea? Are you completely oblivious to the nation cult? The people of North Korea support North Korea. You're just being an emotional baby assuming some how if we let them die because of their stupid ass fucking mistakes, people will let your ass die in a similar fashion. Well are you making stupid ass choices like the North Koreans have for decades? No? Then I'm relatively sure you have nothing to worry about.

Also, eskimospy it's a fantastic idea. Just let them fucking die, North Korea has nothing to offer the rest of the world and the worst they can do is make a small flash in the pan before they all get wiped off the face of the planet.

They've brought it upon themselves for being pieces of shit for so long.

 

[fskimospy]

They are exactly the fucking same, what are you talking about? First off have you not seen anything on North Korea? Are you completely oblivious to the nation cult? The people of North Korea support North Korea. You're just being an emotional baby assuming some how if we let them die because of their stupid ass fucking mistakes, people will let your ass die in a similar fashion. Well are you making stupid ass choices like the North Koreans have for decades? No? Then I'm relatively sure you have nothing to worry about.

Also, eskimospy it's a fantastic idea. Just let them fucking die, North Korea has nothing to offer the rest of the world and the worst they can do is make a small flash in the pan before they all get wiped off the face of the planet.

They've brought it upon themselves for being pieces of shit for so long.

Your idea is really really stupid. The amount of economic damage that North Korea could cause to the US, its allies, and the world economy at large exceeds the amount of aid we give them by many orders of magnitude. It is utterly economically irrational to cut off all aid and provoke a war.

I'm sure it feels good in your gut, but it would be an enormously dumb plan. Be thankful we have leadership that thinks things through more than you do.

 

[irishScott]

It's old, but I think it deserves a repost here: http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/hes_barack_obama

 

[wirednuts]

Contrast this with calling North Korea part of an "axis of evil." The views of many nations toward the U.S. and its citizens have increased greatly over the past few years, thanks to better diplomacy.

thanks to our forefathers realizing the presidency should be re-elected every 4 years, and later whomever it was that put the two-term limit on (thanks to FDR i think)

can you imagine if bush stayed in office? we would still be violently hated. but youre so right, with a better president who actually relates to the rest of the world has made our image SO much better.

i remember saddam hussein said it too. he didnt understand how america re-elects a president every 4 years, because he said "it takes decades to even learn how to run a country". well, yes saddam, to run a dictatorship it probably does take that long. and by then the rest of the world forces you into a rathole to die.

 

[werepossum]

I would agree that the cost is trivial.

The key issue is their word; are they playing for time and aid or are they serious about resolving the tensions over the nuclear program.


And to throw up a balloon to be shot down.
China stated that they are concerned about Iran and the tensions there related to Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Could China have exerted pressure on NK to straighten up?
If NK straightens up; then China can state "look and see what honest efforts will bring" w/ respect to the Iranian situation to relax tensions there.

The cost is trivial IF it results in a sane or at least non-nuclear North Korea. To date, we've provided humanitarian aid for promises that mean absolutely nothing. In affect, we and South Korea are propping up the North Korean regime, allowing them to develop nuclear weapons while staving off utter collapse via starvation. We've essentially been their partner in developing nuclear weapons. Had we not been providing food aid, North Korea would have been unable to sustain its huge military machine simply because of the collapse of its workers.

I think it's worth one more go 'round since there's a new sheriff (though presumably with the same insane clown posse) in town. Maybe it'll be on Obama's watch that these concessions actually mean something. After this one fails, my preference is that we cut them off completely. This policy has been in force going on two decades now, and if it fails once again, we really can't blame the North Koreans for doing what we've taught them works.