Would you support a law like this?

Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
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Say Party A sued Party B. As a prerequsite to Party A sueing, they had to sign a statement saying that if they lose the litigation, they would be required to pay ALL legal expenses of Party B. This would include lawyers fees, court costs, lost wages to attend or prepare for court. This would be limited to actual costs, no pain and suffering or defamation of character issues.

Would you support it?

Do you think it would decrease frivilous litigation?
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
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Yes and yes. In fact I think some states have that on the books already. Either that or I heard something about a state or two trying to pass it. Hell....I dunno...I might have been dreaming.
 

Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
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I think you are correct that some states have that or a verson of it on the books. I was curious if if was made to be nationwide.
 

db

Lifer
Dec 6, 1999
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Part of party B's win would be that party A pays. Happens all the time, FWIH.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
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Yes I would support it. That is how the legal system works in Germany, no wonder they arent sue happy over there
 

Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
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I think that would be a great idea.

But you have to be careful with that, becuase party B could just hire a really really good lawyer and win the case even if they shouldn't, and then party A has a big big bill.

I think there would need to be a maximum cap on how much party A is liable for.

But then I'm not american so my view on american laws probably doesn't matter ;)
 

Kindjal

Senior member
Mar 30, 2001
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I think it depends on what you hope to achieve by implementing such a system. If you are looking to decrease the number of lawsuits brought to court then perhaps it would decrease any cases brought to court and encourage more arbitration and settlements. However you may also deprive those of most in need of their day in court. For example, say you became very ill and your insurance company refused to pay. You take them to court and for some reason you loose. Now you owe both your attorney's fee and that of the insurance company plus you must still pay for your own healthcare. I am not sure that this is in this the people's best interest.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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It works in England -- why not here?

As far as decreasing lawsuits for those that "deserve their day in court", if they truly deserve their day in court, then they should have nothing to worry about. Also, there could be an aspect of the system that if the party which loses does so on a close call, then the judge could relieve the legal fee payment. I would only accept that if it were a high standard, though.

It will never happen, however. Too many trial lawyers are against it, and we all know that the ABA would NEVER support any kind of "restriction" like this, no matter how reasonable it is.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
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I would like to see that along with an end to class action litigation and cases taken on contingency.
 

crystal

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 1999
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It might stop some stupid lawsuits, but it could also limits some individual suits over big coporation.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
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Unfortunately I believe this would create a very bad loop.

For instance, if a huge corporation decides to screw someone over, you know that this corporation will have very good (and expensive) lawyers.

So you make it almost impossible for the little guy to ever take on the big guy, even if the lawsuit is justified. Because the best he might be able to afford is some average lawyer, whereas the corporation will have a team of complete professionals.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
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If you ever get involved in a lawsuit with a big corporation you will quickly learn the dark side of such a rule. They will literally blizzard you with paperwork, motions, etc. to try and bury your legal team with trivia work and expenses. The costs are enormous & few solvent parties would take the risk on of having to pay, say GM's, full costs and expenses if they lose.

Our present system has many faults, but it has its merits-cars, for example, are much safer than they were in the earlier 60's and before, as a direct result of liability concerns.

Such a "law" as you mention is a part of many contracts, such as mortgages.

Also remember that most states have rules permitting the judge to pass on actual costs and expenses to the losing party who brings a frivilous lawsuit. Most states also have rules permitting the passing on of actual expenses in divorces, custody & support issues. Finally, remember that this is why you buy insurance.

Our society has too much litigation but the effect of such a rule would be to favor the very wealthy (or completely broke) over the rest of us.
 

McCarthy

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Problem being Party B might not only have better lawyers, but if they can stall the case long enough, Party A will run out of resources to fight. At which point they lose the case, voila, Party B wins. So Party B can spend more than is justified (assuming Party A will ever be able to repay, or the amount they would have spent in the current system if Party A would not be able to pay).

Part of the problem being the lethargic rate our legal system can move. On the other hand, I don't see a better one around.

Just because some other countries have these sorts of systems doesn't mean they necessarily work. See also, socialized medicine for a have/work example. For all the complaints about insurance companies and HMOs, you'll still get too see the doctor earlier and your operation sooner in the US. Unless you're indigent, in which case you end up with socialized medicine: medicare/medicaid. Thanks to a number of other factors, primarily diet, you won't live any longer here though, but I digress.

Be careful with good intentions, they can do more harm than good.
 

ksdavis

Member
Jun 10, 2001
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<< Just because some other countries have these sorts of systems doesn't mean they necessarily work. See also, socialized medicine for a have/work example. For all the complaints about insurance companies and HMOs, you'll still get too see the doctor earlier and your operation sooner in the US. Unless you're indigent, in which case you end up with socialized medicine: medicare/medicaid. Thanks to a number of other factors, primarily diet, you won't live any longer here though, but I digress. >>



First correction: Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP are hardly &quot;socialized medicine.&quot; They are health insurance plans that use the same doctors as private insurance and that just happen to be paid for out of Federal and state budgets (from dollars collected through taxes). And most all persons with Medicare or Medicaid have fee-for-service plans and aren't under managed care... fee-for-service is about as far from &quot;socialized&quot; medicine as you can get (in that only the incentive/disincentive of copayments act to ration care in any way).

Interesting note about the effect of Medicare: a newborn in the U.S. has a lower expected lifespan than a newborn in almost any other Western country. If you look at every decade of life (age 10, 20, etc.) the numbers are the same until you look at senior citizens. If you make it to age 70, you will live longer in the U.S. than in any other Western country.

Pharmaceuticals and hospitals love these so-called &quot;socialized&quot; programs because the create an artificially high demand for health care services that have low marginal value. I mean, in this country it is not uncommon for a person to spend half their life savings on health care in the last six months of life... and to what end? Big Medicine loves having consumers with Medicare who don't care about the price; their only complaint is that they want higher and higher reimbursement for their services!

You rightly mention the fact that Americans have lower life expectancy than persons in other countries. Much of it *is* diet, and many in public health fields have proposed that we shouldn't spend so much on &quot;heroic&quot; techniques and should spend more to educate Americans on eating better, not smoking, exercising, etc.

A very important other factor is the issue that, quite frankly, all our &quot;modern medical miracles&quot; don't add up to much in terms of overall longevity. The germ theory in the 1920s did more for improving lifespan than almost anything else in the past two centuries. There have been some influential articles in health policy literature about the feedback loop caused by R&amp;D, in which medical device companies and pharms have incentives to create very expensive treatments with low marginal efficacy because someone with insurance is buying the service, and hey, whadda they care if it's $1,000 or $100,000?

Conservatives love free markets and hate government &quot;intervention&quot; in things like health care, but what we're stuck with instead is a system where patients and physicians together make health care consumption decisions that someone else (their employer) has to pay for. That doesn't strike me as a very good &quot;market oriented&quot; solution. :)
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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For the people that supposedly know about how corporations work: Have you ever actually worked in the legal office of a major corporation?

I have. Ever hear of Holiday Inn? I used to work in the Litigation department there, and let me tell you something about our legal system which supposedly works in favor of the &quot;little guy&quot;. More often than not in tort litigation, a major corporation will SETTLE for a nominal amount (to the corporation, say $5,000 or $10,000) instead of taking a suit to court because the cost of defense is too high and usually not paid for by insurance (deductibles are very high). So, the &quot;little guys&quot; often make careers out of suing major corporations on questionable facts because they can reap some substantial rewards by doing so with minimal effort.

Sure. Great system -- reward the &quot;little guy&quot;. You pay higher prices as a result. Enjoy!
 

crystal

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 1999
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AndrewR,

What you say might be true. But if the such a law come to pass, don't you think the big corporation would used it to their advantages?
 

Dually

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2000
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No I wouldn't on all counts. It is discrimination based on income. Poor people would be affraid to sue cause not only could they barely if at all afford the sueing costs but they would never be able to afford it 2x.
 

McCarthy

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Well, our perspectives will all vary based on what we've witnessed so far in this life, along with core beliefs, all those buzz words.

But going along with what ksdavis said, the greatest medical invention created by man to date is likely soap. :) Unfortunately I can't think of something so common sense to apply to the legal question.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
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crystal: No, I don't think they would in most cases. If it's a reputable company, then they are more interested in conducting business, not in screwing over consumers on lawsuits. For major corporations, the incidents in question are covered by insurance so the idea that they are going to drag out litigation in a multimillion dollar case doesn't make sense when they won't pay -- the insurance company will. Businesses don't LIKE to have litigation pending against them because they have to report it in many cases on an annual basis. It looks bad to a potential investor to have pending litigation and especially bad to a potential franchisee in the case of a company like Holiday Inn.

Could it be abused? Yes. Would it be better than the ridiculous frivolity that exists in today's system? Definitely yes.
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
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Yes it only seems fair that the idiot that knowingly made the false claim should bear the cost to the innocent party.
 

Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
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<< Would you support it? >>



No



<< Do you think it would decrease frivilous litigation? >>



Yes

The stumbling block here is that not all litigation is frivolous.
I understand where you are coming from, but I think this a far too simplistic approach.