Would you sign this?

[Dissipate]

Would you sign this document?

Text

 

[aidanjm]

if the alternative is not living in country of choice, then yeah

 

[miketheidiot]

Yes. Printed and signed, witht the addemdom(sp?) that I have a say in the making of the rules.

 

[HalosPuma]

S1 - we already have this: property tax and SSN

S2 - we don't have a draft

S3 - we already have this: War on Drugs

S4 - we can choose whatever job we please; however government does interfere with the employers' right to discriminate

S5 - nonsense

S6 - actually, this is the role of government - to protect the people from foreign threats

S7 - get rid of social security, welfare, public education, and the thousands of other government agencies except for the military and a very few other core infrastructure departments/agencies

S8 - nonsense, you can always recall a politician like the Californians did

S9 - this sounds like Communism

 

[Caminetto]

Gee, it's just like I have already signed.

 

[HalosPuma]

One more thing - we the people are the government. A "Social Contract Between an Individual and the US Government" cannot happen and will not happen in our republic. Why are you encouraging Communism? If this was a different decade, you could be arrested for promoting Communism.

 

[NarcoticHobo]

No.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma
One more thing - we the people are the government. A "Social Contract Between an Individual and the US Government" cannot happen and will not happen in our republic. Why are you encouraging Communism? If this was a different decade, you could be arrested for promoting Communism.

No we aren't the government. "We" (we actually being voters) elect people to become the government out of the general population. If we were to believe your nonesense then we would have to conclude that we subjected oursevles to everything the government does, which is absurd. I'm not promoting anything. I'm just asking a question that I think is quite pertinent to our day and age.

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
No we aren't the government. "We" (we actually being voters) elect people to become the government out of the general population. If we were to believe your nonesense then we would have to conclude that we subjected oursevles to everything the government does, which is absurd.

W.O.W. - the level of education in this country has obviously plummeted to new lows. WE, THE PEOPLE ARE THE GOVERNMENT - BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE.

Here's our Constitution - you know that document most politicians disregard:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

And, yes, we get what we vote for - that is why we can also throw them out of office like California did.

 

[NarcoticHobo]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma
One more thing - we the people are the government. A "Social Contract Between an Individual and the US Government" cannot happen and will not happen in our republic. Why are you encouraging Communism? If this was a different decade, you could be arrested for promoting Communism.

Ok... noo... nooo... NO.

We actually are the very example of social contract theory. I mean thats what our constitution and bill of rights is, a social contract.

 

[NarcoticHobo]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: Dissipate
No we aren't the government. "We" (we actually being voters) elect people to become the government out of the general population. If we were to believe your nonesense then we would have to conclude that we subjected oursevles to everything the government does, which is absurd.

W.O.W. - the level of education in this country has obviously plummeted to new lows. WE, THE PEOPLE ARE THE GOVERNMENT - BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE.

Here's our Constitution - you know that document most politicians disregard:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Yea seriously, its pretty bad when someone doesn't realize our country is in fact the idea of social contract come to fruition...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

W.O.W. - the level of education in this country has obviously plummeted to new lows.

Yep, you're just figuring that out now after 50.9% voted a Liar back to Office for a 2nd time???

 

[Engineer]

Some of the language in that contract reminds me of Executive Orders I've read here...IIRC. Anybody else remember something similar?

 

[1EZduzit]

HELL NO

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

W.O.W. - the level of education in this country has obviously plummeted to new lows.

Yep, you're just figuring that out now after 50.9% voted a Liar back to Office for a 2nd time???

Oh please, give it a rest. Stick to the topic - who is the "government", we the people or the few officials that we elect?

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Some of the language in that contract reminds me of Executive Orders I've read here...IIRC. Anybody else remember something similar?

The War on Drugs has led to a policies similar to the ones here. i.e. if someone is using/selling drugs on your property, the Feds can sieze all of your assets and then you need to prove that you are innocent. It's absolutely horrible.

 

[NarcoticHobo]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

W.O.W. - the level of education in this country has obviously plummeted to new lows.

Yep, you're just figuring that out now after 50.9% voted a Liar back to Office for a 2nd time???

Oh please, give it a rest. Stick to the topic - who is the "government", we the people or the few officials that we elect?

Maybe you don't understand... the few officials are the government, we have a contract with them. Our contract gives us a helluvah lot of control over them, which is nice... but when it comes down to it they are the government.

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo
Maybe you don't understand... the few officials are the government, we have a contract with them. Our contract gives us a helluvah lot of control over them, which is nice... but when it comes down to it they are the government.

Maybe we are disagreeing on the definition of government. I can get enough signatures on a petition to run for a local office. If I am on a jury, I can nullify a law or a ruling if I disagree with it. I pay the salary for all of our politicians. Our entire political system is based on the fact that, "we the people" are the government.

The former Soviet Union, Iraq, Iran, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc., etc., etc., are all examples where the poeple are not the government.

 

[NarcoticHobo]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo
Maybe you don't understand... the few officials are the government, we have a contract with them. Our contract gives us a helluvah lot of control over them, which is nice... but when it comes down to it they are the government.

Maybe we are disagreeing on the definition of government. I can get enough signatures on a petition to run for a local office. If I am on a jury, I can nullify a law or a ruling if I disagree with it. I pay the salary for all of our politicians. Our entire political system is based on the fact that, "we the people" are the government.

The former Soviet Union, Iraq, Iran, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc., etc., etc., are all examples where the poeple are not the government.

Right... but you can't make a decision all willy nilly like a president or senator or Judge can. WE control the government, as our social contract is much more binding of our government than other countries (soviet union, iraq, etc). You participate in government functions occasionally, but the real government stuff is done by the senators, etc.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo
Maybe you don't understand... the few officials are the government, we have a contract with them. Our contract gives us a helluvah lot of control over them, which is nice... but when it comes down to it they are the government.

Maybe we are disagreeing on the definition of government. I can get enough signatures on a petition to run for a local office. If I am on a jury, I can nullify a law or a ruling if I disagree with it. I pay the salary for all of our politicians. Our entire political system is based on the fact that, "we the people" are the government.

The former Soviet Union, Iraq, Iran, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc., etc., etc., are all examples where the poeple are not the government.

Right... but you can't make a decision all willy nilly like a president or senator or Judge can. WE control the government, as our social contract is much more binding of our government than other countries (soviet union, iraq, etc). You participate in government functions occasionally, but the real government stuff is done by the senators, etc.

If by "we" you mean people with connections or people with money, I would have to agree. Personally, I do not feel I have virtually any control of the government. I have the ballot box, but biiiiiiiiiiiiig whoop! I have the same odds of determining the next president as I have at hitting the powerball jackpot 128 times in a row. Now that's REAL control, right?

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo
Maybe you don't understand... the few officials are the government, we have a contract with them. Our contract gives us a helluvah lot of control over them, which is nice... but when it comes down to it they are the government.

Maybe we are disagreeing on the definition of government. I can get enough signatures on a petition to run for a local office. If I am on a jury, I can nullify a law or a ruling if I disagree with it. I pay the salary for all of our politicians. Our entire political system is based on the fact that, "we the people" are the government.

The former Soviet Union, Iraq, Iran, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc., etc., etc., are all examples where the poeple are not the government.

Right... but you can't make a decision all willy nilly like a president or senator or Judge can. WE control the government, as our social contract is much more binding of our government than other countries (soviet union, iraq, etc). You participate in government functions occasionally, but the real government stuff is done by the senators, etc.

Actually, in our republic, we elect our representatives to act in our best interest. We are too busy in our capitalistic society to worry about the day-to-day political happenings. That is why they are called representatives - they represent their constituients. And, yes, I can make a decision "all willy nilly" like the President does (i.e. today I will run for office, or today I will collect signatures to put a measure on the ballot), but on a much smaller scale.

And a contract implies that it needs to be enforced. Who will enforce it? That means we now need men with guns to check on everyone to make sure the contract is enforced. That leads to a police state where, ironically, the very contract that is proposed to keep the politicians in check will actually be used against us.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo
Maybe you don't understand... the few officials are the government, we have a contract with them. Our contract gives us a helluvah lot of control over them, which is nice... but when it comes down to it they are the government.

Maybe we are disagreeing on the definition of government. I can get enough signatures on a petition to run for a local office. If I am on a jury, I can nullify a law or a ruling if I disagree with it. I pay the salary for all of our politicians. Our entire political system is based on the fact that, "we the people" are the government.

The former Soviet Union, Iraq, Iran, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc., etc., etc., are all examples where the poeple are not the government.

If "we" are the government, then why do we need a government at all? Why would the government even need to be a seperate entity with this so called "right to rule"?

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
If "we" are the government, then why do we need a government at all? Why would the government even need to be a seperate entity with this so called "right to rule"?

The government is not a separate entity. The politicians and military are a separate entity. Don't ever get that confused - to say the government is separate is to say that it is "us" versus "them" which implies we are ruled and governed without any representation.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: Dissipate
If "we" are the government, then why do we need a government at all? Why would the government even need to be a seperate entity with this so called "right to rule"?

The government is not a separate entity. The politicians and military are a separate entity. Don't ever get that confused - to say the government is separate is to say that it is "us" versus "them" which implies we are ruled and governed without any representation.

Seriously, you are cracked out. I suggest you read this.

 

[NarcoticHobo]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo
Maybe you don't understand... the few officials are the government, we have a contract with them. Our contract gives us a helluvah lot of control over them, which is nice... but when it comes down to it they are the government.

Maybe we are disagreeing on the definition of government. I can get enough signatures on a petition to run for a local office. If I am on a jury, I can nullify a law or a ruling if I disagree with it. I pay the salary for all of our politicians. Our entire political system is based on the fact that, "we the people" are the government.

The former Soviet Union, Iraq, Iran, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc., etc., etc., are all examples where the poeple are not the government.

Right... but you can't make a decision all willy nilly like a president or senator or Judge can. WE control the government, as our social contract is much more binding of our government than other countries (soviet union, iraq, etc). You participate in government functions occasionally, but the real government stuff is done by the senators, etc.

Actually, in our republic, we elect our representatives to act in our best interest. We are too busy in our capitalistic society to worry about the day-to-day political happenings. That is why they are called representatives - they represent their constituients. And, yes, I can make a decision "all willy nilly" like the President does (i.e. today I will run for office, or today I will collect signatures to put a measure on the ballot), but on a much smaller scale.

And a contract implies that it needs to be enforced. Who will enforce it? That means we now need men with guns to check on everyone to make sure the contract is enforced. That leads to a police state where, ironically, the very contract that is proposed to keep the politicians in check will actually be used against us.

Okay... you don't understand. The USA, right now, is operating under a social contract. That is not debateable, that is a fact, its what the term means. What is this contract? It is the constitution and the bill of rights. How is it enforced without having men with guns? Checks and balances, the most ingenious part of the system the founding fathers established, how is it enforced beyond that? Bill of rights 2nd amendment, worse comes to worst and we start fighting the government (ie the elected officials) with guns.

As to you making willy nilly decisions, the point as you said, is it is on a much smaller scale. Point is you have limited control over what the government does, in fact your point about running for office is a good example, as you have no control whatsoever until you get elected.