Would you purchase an i5(2nd gen) motherboard that doesn't support Intel HD2000/3000?

[TheDarkKnight]

According to Intel's website, every single 2nd gen "Core" i5 CPU comes with integrated graphics, either HD2000 or HD3000.

I plan on purchasing the Core i5-2500K in the near future and feel compelled to purchase a motherboard that supports the HD2000/3000 integrated graphics on this Sandy Bridge CPU. In other words, a motherboard with either the H61 or H67 chipset. I would feel like I was being cheated out of a "free" videocard if I didn't.

Does anybody else feel the same way? Or differently? Are you a person who has, or will, purchase an Intel CPU with integrated graphics and knowingly pair it up with a chipset(P67) that doesn't support the functionality you have purchased?

Please explain why you would do this. What makes the P67 chipset so compelling versus the H61/H67 to give up "free" integrated graphics capabilities.

Am I missing something? I realize the integrated graphics, even the HD3000, may not be top notch. But you can disable this functionality in BIOS and replace with a better card at will, am I right? You can't do this with P67 chipset. So whats the reason for giving up this functionality?

Just want to understand a little bit better.

 

[paperwastage]

p67, you can overclock... you can get at least 4.4 ghz (from original 3.3, a nice increase of 33%, depending if you count in turbo or not) with minimal effort and a decent heatsink

so if you don't want/need a discrete card( or you rearlly need the quicksync video encoding speed) , h67 is for you

if yo uwant OC and quicksync, waith for z68

 

[DaveSimmons]

H67 = no overclocking.

1. Why pay extra for a K chip if you're going to run it at stock speed?

2. Most people here (including me) are buying a 2500K for a system that will be used at least part of the time for gaming. HD3000 is useless for that so HD3000 being disabled doesn't matter to us.

 

[jiffylube1024]

According to Intel's website, every single 2nd gen "Core" i5 CPU comes with integrated graphics, either HD2000 or HD3000.

I plan on purchasing the Core i5-2500K in the near future and feel compelled to purchase a motherboard that supports the HD2000/3000 integrated graphics on this Sandy Bridge CPU. In other words, a motherboard with either the H61 or H67 chipset. I would feel like I was being cheated out of a "free" videocard if I didn't.

Does anybody else feel the same way? Or differently? Are you a person who has, or will, purchase an Intel CPU with integrated graphics and knowingly pair it up with a chipset(P67) that doesn't support the functionality you have purchased?

Please explain why you would do this. What makes the P67 chipset so compelling versus the H61/H67 to give up "free" integrated graphics capabilities.

Am I missing something? I realize the integrated graphics, even the HD3000, may not be top notch. But you can disable this functionality in BIOS and replace with a better card at will, am I right? You can't do this with P67 chipset. So whats the reason for giving up this functionality?

Just want to understand a little bit better.

It's pretty much that manufacturers have made the decision for us that H67 boards are generally uATX boards with fewer features and P67 boards are regular ATX boards with the features that overclockers and power users crave.

Motherboard manufacturers have made the (correct) calculation that the kind of user who wants a $150+ motherboard is the kind of person who will use an aftermarket GPU - simple as that.

Take ASUS for example, according to their website they manufacture only ONE regular ATX H67 board - the P8H67-V. The rest are all uATX.

The P8H67-V looks like a board from last generation. It has only 6 SATA ports (compared to 8 on the P67 boards) and NONE face the side, which are preferred if you have a long graphics card. The board seems to have inferior power delivery (ie. fewer MOSFETS) to the CPU socket compared to the P8P67 Pro/Deluxe. It has 2x USB 3.0 ports and 2x SATA3 ports, at least.

Even worse, I can't even find the P8H67-V for sale.

--------------

In theory, H67 boards with all of the features of P67 boards plus integrated graphics are a win/win. The problem is that there's always tradeoffs, and motherboard companies know this. Even if integrated graphics takes up only minimal motherboard space, you need the electrical traces and graphics ports on the back. What port configuration do you go with? DVI/VGA/HDMI/Display Port? There's a lot of options to choose from.

So either the price has to go up, or they need to make some other compromises on the board (fewer USB ports, fewer SATA ports, higher cost, inferior power delivery to the CPU, etc.).

For me, and I'm sure countless other Anandtech users --- I know that I won't be using integrated graphics with my 1155 Sandy Bridge CPU. I'd much rather have 2-4 extra USB ports and an eSATA port than video connectors on my board, let alone a full suite of overclocking features, headers for more USB 3.0 ports, more SATA ports, more PCI-e lanes, etc.

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Put very simply -- if you're an overclocker, why pay more for a feature that you won't use?

 

[TheDarkKnight]

p67, you can overclock... you can get at least 4.4 ghz (from original 3.3, a nice increase of 33%, depending if you count in turbo or not) with minimal effort and a decent heatsink

so if you don't want/need a discrete card( or you rearlly need the quicksync video encoding speed) , h67 is for you

if yo uwant OC and quicksync, waith for z68

My friend, you have saved me from making a grave mistake. This is the solution I need. I want it all. I get to use the integrated graphics that I have paid for(if the need should ever arise) and the overclocking capabilities. I will wait for the Z68 chipset. I will rule the world. Oh wait, thats getting a little too carried away. Thanks for the good info. Of course, theres always something better in the pipeline isnt there? But I can wait for this.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The only flaw in your cunning plan is that you'll most likely pay $50+ extra for Z68 motherboards over P67, meaning you'll pay more than the cost of a spare discrete graphics card that is faster and doesn't steal system memory.

 

[paperwastage]

My friend, you have saved me from making a grave mistake. This is the solution I need. I want it all. I get to use the integrated graphics that I have paid for(if the need should ever arise) and the overclocking capabilities. I will wait for the Z68 chipset. I will rule the world. Oh wait, thats getting a little too carried away. Thanks for the good info. Of course, theres always something better in the pipeline isnt there? But I can wait for this.

well, the HD 3000 graphics isn't like the best integrated graphics(well, i don't remember how good it is, but AMD IGPs and this Intel HD 3000s can do HD video w/o problems, and do some light gaming)

and as other people say, Z68 will probably cost more. right now, the cheapest h67 atx is like $90, p67 atx is like $110, z68 will probably be around $130

so if you really need Quicksync for transcoding, then Z68 + discrete GPU if you like.

otherwise, you really have to pick b/w h67 and p67, and this sucks. Go for p67 and get like http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/02/elgatos-turbo-264-usb-stick-painlessly-coverts-vidz-to-h-264/

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

yes i think intel is trying to double up the customer knowing many would want an h67+p67 solution and instead of offering all up front they make you choose. Either way all 3 are a compromise with z68 you get no usb3 and even worse no PCI which is great to avoid pcie bottlenecks in some cases

 

[TheDarkKnight]

yes i think intel is trying to double up the customer knowing many would want an h67+p67 solution and instead of offering all up front they make you choose. Either way all 3 are a compromise with z68 you get no usb3 and even worse no PCI which is great to avoid pcie bottlenecks in some cases

Are you freaking kidding me? No USB 3? Not that I really need it(at least not right now) but its stupid not to include it if they are considering this their flagship chipset. What the hell. And what about SATA 6? Is that included in Z68 or no? I gotta start researching this stuff even more it seems. I never thought it would take this much damn thought to figure out what motherboard and CPU I wanted to buy.

Just when I was all happy someone has to go and throw a damn monkey wrench into my plans.Thanks for nothiing.


🙂

 

[jiffylube1024]

Are you freaking kidding me? No USB 3? Not that I really need it(at least not right now) but its stupid not to include it if they are considering this their flagship chipset. What the hell. And what about SATA 6? Is that included in Z68 or no? I gotta start researching this stuff even more it seems. I never thought it would take this much damn thought to figure out what motherboard and CPU I wanted to buy.

Just when I was all happy someone has to go and throw a damn monkey wrench into my plans.Thanks for nothiing.


🙂

I think you both are geting your messages crossed.

What he means is that Z68, like P67 and H67 has no onboard USB3. Intel, in its infinite wisdom, didn't put USB 3 in the P67/H67/Z68 board spec, so manufacturers will be putting third party USB3 controllers on Z68 boards just like they do on current x67 boards.

As for SATA 6Gbps, Z68 will definitely have that. I'm not sure if it has the same 2 ports as H67/P67 or 4 ports, but it will definitely be on there. And just like with P67, manufacturers will have the option of adding more SATA 6Gbps ports through the use of third party controllers.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

well, the HD 3000 graphics isn't like the best integrated graphics(well, i don't remember how good it is, but AMD IGPs and this Intel HD 3000s can do HD video w/o problems, and do some light gaming)

and as other people say, Z68 will probably cost more. right now, the cheapest h67 atx is like $90, p67 atx is like $110, z68 will probably be around $130

so if you really need Quicksync for transcoding, then Z68 + discrete GPU if you like.

otherwise, you really have to pick b/w h67 and p67, and this sucks. Go for p67 and get like http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/02/elgatos-turbo-264-usb-stick-painlessly-coverts-vidz-to-h-264/

I personally don't care all that much for the Quicksync features as much as having the "option" of having a backup graphics solution if my videocard ever shoots craps on me. Its that simple. Or If I need to test another computer I can pull my discrete graphics card out of the Sandy Bridge computer, drop it in the second computer, and have graphics on both systems. I am paying for it. I want it.

*** EDIT ***
I just thought of something I hadn't thought of before. Is it possible to use both the integrated graphics of the 2nd gen. Sandy Bridge CPUs along with a compaitble chipset(H67) and a discrete graphics card at the same time in a 2-monitor setup? That would be sweet.

 

[KeypoX]

I personally don't care all that much for the Quicksync features as much as having the "option" of having a backup graphics solution if my videocard ever shoots craps on me. Its that simple. Or If I need to test another computer I can pull my discrete graphics card out of the Sandy Bridge computer, drop it in the second computer, and have graphics on both systems. I am paying for it. I want it.

with a K processor you are also paying for overclocking, but you can't use it

 

[TheDarkKnight]

with a K processor you are also paying for overclocking, but you can't use it

You make a very good point that I hadn't thought of.
So let me get my facts straight here. Intel has built both overclocking abilities and integrated graphics into the 2nd Gen. Core i5 seriers of CPUs. But forces you to choose one feature over the other by releasing two different chipsets which will support one feature but not the other.

Geez. Yes. It looks like I will be waiting for the Z68 chipset. I personally don't think the boards with Z68 will be $50 higher. I guess price will determine what I do. But after Intel flubbed the Cougar Point chipset launch Im in no hurry to do anything. Im doing my research and taking my sweet time to figure it all out.

I actually almost decided to buy an AMD Phenom II 820 the other day from NewEgg instead of the Intel platform. It was on sale for $85 but that was without a fan. But it seems like everytime I start looking at prices I end up looking at the higher priced ones. For example, "Oh wait, the xxx is only xxx higher and the xxxx is only xxxx higher for xxxx more features. Then Im right back to looking at Sandy Bridge CPUs. LOL. Its so crazy all the choices we have today. Sometimes procrastination is a good thing.

 

[paperwastage]

I personally don't care all that much for the Quicksync features as much as having the "option" of having a backup graphics solution if my videocard ever shoots craps on me. Its that simple. Or If I need to test another computer I can pull my discrete graphics card out of the Sandy Bridge computer, drop it in the second computer, and have graphics on both systems. I am paying for it. I want it.

*** EDIT ***
I just thought of something I hadn't thought of before. Is it possible to use both the integrated graphics of the 2nd gen. Sandy Bridge CPUs along with a compaitble chipset(H67) and a discrete graphics card at the same time in a 2-monitor setup? That would be sweet.

you should be able to, but i'm not sure whether some MOBO disables the IGP when you have discrete

well, for my previous RIG AMD 785GM-E65 + Phenom II X4 + xfx 5770, i had 5 ports(3 on my 5770, 2 on my 785G IGP).. that was awesome

most discrete cards have 2 ports out anyways

 

[Zap]

1. Why pay extra for a K chip if you're going to run it at stock speed?

For the better IGP. It has double the number of graphics cores (12 vs 6).

well, the HD 3000 graphics isn't like the best integrated graphics(well, i don't remember how good it is, but AMD IGPs and this Intel HD 3000s can do HD video w/o problems, and do some light gaming)

Actually I think it's pretty up there as far as integrated graphics are concerned.

Here the desktop HD 3000 is beating AMD 890GX IGP and giving the discrete Radeon 5450 a run for its money. Heck HD 2000 with half the cores is closer to the AMD IGP of last year.

Here the HD 3000 mobile version (also 12 cores like desktop, but may vary in MHz) puts the smack down pretty hard on the Radeon 4250 IGP in most AMD notebooks.

Here is Radeon 4225/4250 and even the latest Radeon 6310 getting the hurt put on it by HD 3000.

Granted some of those results may have benefited from the Intel CPU, can't deny that it is basically as fast and sometimes faster than low end discrete graphics cards.

 

[paperwastage]

For the better IGP. It has double the number of graphics cores (12 vs 6).



Actually I think it's pretty up there as far as integrated graphics are concerned.

Here the desktop HD 3000 is beating AMD 890GX IGP and giving the discrete Radeon 5450 a run for its money. Heck HD 2000 with half the cores is closer to the AMD IGP of last year.


Granted some of those results may have benefited from the Intel CPU, can't deny that it is basically as fast and sometimes faster than low end discrete graphics cards.

true... I guess i haven't caught up with the news enough... had a HD 4200 IGP in my previous desktop which was near teh top of IGP last year, currently with my i5 2500k on P67, so no IGP testing for me 🙁

 

[infoiltrator]

Integrated graphics are always marginal. $65 buys a much better video card as a "back up" and is useful in more than one computer. If the motherboard costs extra to "use" it it is not "free", plus you are dependent on microsoft updates.

 

[Zap]

Integrated graphics are always marginal. $65 buys a much better video card as a "back up" and is useful in more than one computer. If the motherboard costs extra to "use" it it is not "free", plus you are dependent on microsoft updates.

#1 You are depending on Intel for updates.

#2 Spending more money buys something "better" - imagine that!

#3 If you are a gamer this is a complete non-issue as you wouldn't be shopping for IGP or even $65 graphics cards.

#4 If you are not a gamer, then 97.3% chance that the IGP (whichever one you get) will do everything you need it to do. And yes I pulled that number out of some nether region, but it should be ballpark.