Would you prefer a loaded normal vehicle or a base higher end vehicle

[Herr Kutz]

If you had a choice between a loaded "normal" vehicle or a base higher end vehicle with comparable up front costs after negotiation, which would you choose?

Just as a couple examples,

• Loaded Toyota Rav4 vs Base Lexus NX

• Loaded Honda Accord vs Base TLX

• Loaded Honda CRV vs Base Acura RDX

• Loaded Toyota 4Runner vs Base Lexus GX (maybe the GX is still a bit more expensive in base form so this comparison is a stretch)

• Loaded Toyota Camry vs Base Lexus ES

And of course some comparisons could be made across brands while not necessarily staying in the same size class. For example a loaded Accord vs a base BMW 3 series.

 

[JulesMaximus]

The base Lexus ES is very well equipped. Better than a loaded Camry, plus, it is built on the larger Toyota Avalon platform. I think a better comparison might be loaded Avalon vs base Lexus ES but those two cars cost about the same money anyway.

 

[sandorski]

Optional doodads are not the only things that separate Upscale from Normal. As Jules mentioned the Base of Upscale products often contains as standard many optional features of the Normal models. Plus Styling and Build Quality are often different too.

I think you have to look at each pair of similar products and decide what you want. Sometimes the Normal might be better, other times the Upscale model might be better.

 

[Herr Kutz]

What extra features do base luxury models usually come with over a loaded normal vehicle? I realize base luxury vehicles come with more standard equipment than the lower end brands when comparing base to base, but we are not, for example, comparing a base camry to a base lexus. And let's throw something subjective such as styling out the window.

 

[JulesMaximus]

What extra features do base luxury models usually come with over a loaded normal vehicle? I realize base luxury vehicles come with more standard equipment than the lower end brands when comparing base to base, but we are not, for example, comparing a base camry to a base lexus. And let's throw something subjective such as styling out the window.

First of all, the Camry is smaller than a Lexus ES but I did own a Camry Hybrid XLE (great car by the way) and it didn't have cooled seats while the Lexus ES my wife owned did come with heated and cooled seats. Believe it or not, cooled seats are a godsend here in Southern California.

Also, the level of information available at your fingertips with the Lexus was pretty amazing. The Camry you could only see 4 tire pressures but it didn't indicate which wheel it was reading. The Lexus showed you which wheel was low if one was. Blind spot monitoring is standard on the Lexus, it is not on the XLE Camry. Auto closing trunk is standard on the Lexus ES but not available on the Camry. The Infotainment screen on the Lexus is much larger and easier to read/navigate than on the Camry.

They are completely different cars and, like I said earlier, the Avalon would be a better comparison. I have driven a current generation Avalon and it compares quite well to the Lexus ES if fully loaded but it has been a few years since I've driven one so I couldn't really give you any details on the differences. I do know that a fully loaded Avalon would be very comparable in price to a Lexus ES350. Interior materials are not as nice as the Lexus though.

 

[jdoggg12]

Base higher end. Often the compenents themselves are of higher quality on the "premium" version of a platform (eg TL vs Accord). A possible example would be a lower car with premium sound might have BOSE audio as a premium option while the premium car comes standard with Bang & Olufsen. (Admittedly a flawed example given the subjective nature of audio quality)

When I got my TL, I had been looking at an 07 Accord with all the bells and whistles. I hadn't even considered the TL. When a friend told me to look at a slightly older TL, for the same price, I was skeptical. It took one test drive to sell me on an 05 TL instead of an 07 Accord. Much more car for the same price.

 

[Herr Kutz]

First of all, the Camry is smaller than a Lexus ES but I did own a Camry Hybrid XLE (great car by the way) and it didn't have cooled seats while the Lexus ES my wife owned did come with heated and cooled seats. Believe it or not, cooled seats are a godsend here in Southern California.

Also, the level of information available at your fingertips with the Lexus was pretty amazing. The Camry you could only see 4 tire pressures but it didn't indicate which wheel it was reading. The Lexus showed you which wheel was low if one was. Blind spot monitoring is standard on the Lexus, it is not on the XLE Camry. Auto closing trunk is standard on the Lexus ES but not available on the Camry. The Infotainment screen on the Lexus is much larger and easier to read/navigate than on the Camry.

They are completely different cars and, like I said earlier, the Avalon would be a better comparison. I have driven a current generation Avalon and it compares quite well to the Lexus ES if fully loaded but it has been a few years since I've driven one so I couldn't really give you any details on the differences. I do know that a fully loaded Avalon would be very comparable in price to a Lexus ES350. Interior materials are not as nice as the Lexus though.

Are you sure you are comparing loaded normal vehicles with a base higher end vehicle or are you comparing loaded with loaded? Blind spot is now available on the Camry XLE. Most of the doodads that were previously earmarked for luxury vehicles only have now trickled down to mass market vehicles. I doubt cooled seats is standard equipment on an ES.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Are you sure you are comparing loaded normal vehicles with a base higher end vehicle or are you comparing loaded with loaded? Blind spot is now available on the Camry XLE. Most of the doodads that were previously earmarked for luxury vehicles only have now trickled down to mass market vehicles. I doubt cooled seats is standard equipment on an ES.

You're right, it is an option. My bad. It's a $1600 option called the Luxury Package but most on dealer lots will have it. Most of them seem to come with that and the NAV System.

Luxury Package: Premium Package contents with genuine wood trim, memory function for driver's seat, steering wheel and exterior mirrors, and power tilt/telescopic steering wheel; Climate control seats; Leather-trimmed interior with embossed pattern on seats; Wood trim on center console and cup holder.

By the way, when we bought our ES Lexus knocked $5k off the MSRP. It was a $45k car but we paid $40k for it. If you option up an Avalon it will cost over $40k. Plus, Lexus dealers are VERY concerned with customer satisfaction so you won't have any high pressure sales tactics like you get at some dealerships.

I think it's worth looking into the premium versions to see if you can get what you want for close to the same money.

 

[Jimzz]

Depends.

When looking to replace our Mercedes E350 I looked at the G37, CTS, and Genesis.

The issue I found was many of the Genesis and CTS were made for "door buster" pricing or rentals. So yea you got a luxury car but no heated seats, no memory seats, etc... I rather have a top of the line Impala with all the options an leather than a base model CTS.

Finally found a CTS with the performance package so it had everything we wanted but seems many luxury cars today are made for ads/rentals.

 

[soulcougher73]

High end models are usually better equipped even at base.

 

[gus6464]

A fully loaded to the brim Avalon is $40. Lexus ES starts at $38. The base ES is not as nicely equipped as that Avalon.

 

[JulesMaximus]

A fully loaded to the brim Avalon is $40. Lexus ES starts at $38. The base ES is not as nicely equipped as that Avalon.

But if you could get a nicely equipped Lexus ES for $40k would that change your mind on which car you would choose?

FTR-The Lexus ES is nicer inside than the Avalon.

 

[twinrider1]

Even though they're the same price, I'm thinking the insurance would be less on the loaded base car. Dealer maintenance costs would probably be less too.
But I still think I'd want a base high end car. I think a high end car would have a better ride/ better insulation. Plus cars come standard with pretty much everything I'd ever want. Heck, a lot of stuff I don't want is standard. Just give me A/C and cruise control and I'm happy.

 

[agent00f]

Are you sure you are comparing loaded normal vehicles with a base higher end vehicle or are you comparing loaded with loaded? Blind spot is now available on the Camry XLE. Most of the doodads that were previously earmarked for luxury vehicles only have now trickled down to mass market vehicles. I doubt cooled seats is standard equipment on an ES.

The simple way to think about the value equation is that the options are where the manufacturer makes its profits. The lowest tier model is sometimes even bit of a loss leader to get customers in the door.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Even though they're the same price, I'm thinking the insurance would be less on the loaded base car. Dealer maintenance costs would probably be less too.
But I still think I'd want a base high end car. I think a high end car would have a better ride/ better insulation. Plus cars come standard with pretty much everything I'd ever want. Heck, a lot of stuff I don't want is standard. Just give me A/C and cruise control and I'm happy.

I doubt insurance would be any more on the Lexus ES over the Toyota Avalon. Maintenance costs would be lower on the Toyota but resale value on the Lexus would probably be a little higher.

 

[Yuriman]

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm generally of the opinion that I'd rather not have most of the goodies included. What's the point of a self-closing trunk? I see it as just added weight, expense, and stuff to go wrong. This is part of why cars are so much heavier today than they used to be.

Give me A/C (mostly for defrosting the windows), comfortable seats, and a good stereo, and I'm happy as a clam.

 

[hans007]

Depends how high up you go. Some high end cars have a lot of decent standard equipment and after a certain point I don't care so much.

I'd rather have a base car with say better engine and driving dynamics than a loaded econobox

 

[monkeydelmagico]

I'd rather have a base car with say better engine and driving dynamics than a loaded econobox

That would be great if it was always true. Often it's the other way around. 370z vs g37 was a good example. The higher end vehicle didn't have a better engine and arguably worse driving dynamics. The base high end vehicles are often heavier due to sound deadening materials and frippery.

The japanese are notorious for developing a mass production platform then adding content. The germans do it differently. They will develop a platform that is used exclusively on a high end vehicle for at least a generation. Then they will "retire" the platform and build a more budget version out of the old parts. See BMW 128

 

[hans007]

That would be great if it was always true. Often it's the other way around. 370z vs g37 was a good example. The higher end vehicle didn't have a better engine and arguably worse driving dynamics. The base high end vehicles are often heavier due to sound deadening materials and frippery.

The japanese are notorious for developing a mass production platform then adding content. The germans do it differently. They will develop a platform that is used exclusively on a high end vehicle for at least a generation. Then they will "retire" the platform and build a more budget version out of the old parts. See BMW 128

True I once owned a g35 coupe and it really any different than the 350z of the time. Then again it was only slightly more expensive and in some ways had less standard features (I remember the 350z had an auto dim rearview mirror and the g35 you had to pay extra for it). Looked nicer tho.

I guess I meant more like I'd get a 320i sport pack with no other options over say a loaded accord v6. There's only so much you can do to an economy platform . The cheaper expensive cars share so much with their higher end family

Same goes for say a Lexus rc-f vs say a cayman

 

[agent00f]

That would be great if it was always true. Often it's the other way around. 370z vs g37 was a good example. The higher end vehicle didn't have a better engine and arguably worse driving dynamics. The base high end vehicles are often heavier due to sound deadening materials and frippery.

The Z and G aren't equivalent cars.

The japanese are notorious for developing a mass production platform then adding content. The germans do it differently. They will develop a platform that is used exclusively on a high end vehicle for at least a generation. Then they will "retire" the platform and build a more budget version out of the old parts. See BMW 128

This is generally wrong. For example, VW the quintessential germans share the same platform from Skodas to Audi, and generally make everything they can modular within MLB/MQB families; even VW/Porsche or even more exotic. If anything the japanese are somewhat behind on platform sharing.

 

[nOOky]

I'm a "depends" type of person even though I chose base higher end vehicle in the poll. For example I have a Ford Edge Sport, the highest trim level, but not fully optioned because I didn't want the drivers package. The comparable higher-end vehicle is the Lincoln MKZ, but despite having more horsepower it is slower, and didn't have upgrade options that I felt were of any real value to me. I still feel a lower optioned higher end vehicle is a better value than a fully loaded base car.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

The Z and G aren't equivalent cars.

Try reading the thread then get back to us.

This is generally wrong. For example, VW the quintessential germans share the same platform from Skodas to Audi, and generally make everything they can modular within MLB/MQB families; even VW/Porsche or even more exotic. If anything the japanese are somewhat behind on platform sharing.

Uh no. Again try to stay with us here. We are comparing Loaded low end cars to next higher tier strippers. Lemme give you a hint: Audi A3 vs GTI. For the bonus which one used MQB first? When you find the answer it proves I am right......

 

[agent00f]

Try reading the thread then get back to us.

The G doesn't become a higher end Z no matter how times the thread is read.

Uh no. Again try to stay with us here. We are comparing Loaded low end cars to next higher tier strippers. Lemme give you a hint: Audi A3 vs GTI. For the bonus which one used MQB first? When you find the answer it proves I am right......

It's an irrelevant point, and in any case wrong even in your own example. The MQB was launch at around the same time circa 2012 for the 3rd gen A3 & mk7 golf, not "used exclusively on a high end vehicle for at least a generation". Other cases include Cayenne/Touareg circa 2002, etc.

 

[CA19100]

I went through this with my recent car purchase. I was looking at either a decked-out Ford Fusion with virtually all the options, or a basic Lincoln MKZ with a few options I wanted. Same size, same engine, same transmission, very similar tech. The Lincoln's interior is a little nicer, of course, but the Ford's is very nice as well. Cooled seats are the most wonderful thing ever invented for summer, let me tell you!

In the end, I couldn't justify the additional ~$9000 that the Lincoln would have cost me, and I liked the looks of the Ford better. I've had it for about eight months now, and have no regrets on the purchase at all, other than I wish I had sprung for the adaptive cruise control.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

The G doesn't become a higher end Z no matter how times the thread is read.

The G was absolutely billed, constructed, and sold as a luxury coupe based upon the Z. This fact is not lost upon other posters in this thread. I'm sorry you seem unable to grasp this.

It's an irrelevant point, and in any case wrong even in your own example. The MQB was launch at around the same time circa 2012 for the 3rd gen A3 & mk7 golf, not "used exclusively on a high end vehicle for at least a generation". Other cases include Cayenne/Touareg circa 2002, etc.

Around the same time? Which car used it first? Yeah, that's what I thought.....

Just because VW has accelerated the process doesn't mean that, historically, there aren't numerous examples of platforms and tech moving from high end to lower tier. I suppose the time is here when all vehicle platforms revolve around the same core parts like VW is doing but it didn't always used to be like that. Even so, the manufacturers will always reserve the best and newest tech for their flagship models. To do otherwise would be ludicrous. The whole point of this discussion is to evaluate the merits of their efforts.

So have you actually cross shopped an A3 and a Golf/GTI? What makes one a better choice than the other? Leave my posts alone and try contributing something.