Would you like to game comfortably on Windows Vista, or even just boot?

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
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http://www.apcstart.com/teched/pivot/entry.php?id=6

"In a 32 bit environment, half a gig of RAM is heaps. It's going to fly. For 64 bit you're going to want 2 gigs of DDR3 RAM.

"If you move from 32 to 64 bit, you basically need to at least double your memory. 2 gigs in 64 bit is the equivalent of a gig of RAM on a 32bit machine. That's because you're dealing with chunks that are twice the size? if you try to make do with what you've got you'll see less performance. But RAM is now so cheap, it's hardly an issue.

"In terms of disks, you're really going to want S-ATA 2hard drives with NCQ capability because it gives the OS the ability to get on with stuff while disk tasks complete. All the tier 1 and tier 2 vendors can provide this capability today.

"Thirdly, the graphics card and system bus is essential. PCI x16 is going to be very important. Any of today's 3D GPUs will be fine? we're not waiting for some mystical monster that may or may not come out. But they need to have 128MB of RAM on it. If they've only got 64 don't panic.

"We acknowledge that many corporate notebooks have fairly low-end integrated graphics chips. They're not exactly high performance graphics systems. For those users, we will provide a classic UI that looks like XP, and then we will have Aero that will start to make use of the GPU, and then there's Aero Glass that will demand the higher level.

"We are talking a year out here, so I have no doubt the vendors will address this in that period of time.?
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
81
"So what we'll have with S-ATA 2 are IDE drives that work just like SCSI drives. SCSI has always been way too pricey for desktop use. But now you can get an "effective" SCSI drive of 250GB for $215. You're right up to SCSI drive speed with S-ATA-2.
Err, no you're not.
7200rpm vs 15000rpm makes fairly sure of that.
 

Auric

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
9,591
2
71
Entities wot value their time do not rush to "upgrade" to first releases anyway.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
"If you move from 32 to 64 bit, you basically need to at least double your memory. 2 gigs in 64 bit is the equivalent of a gig of RAM on a 32bit machine. That's because you're dealing with chunks that are twice the size? if you try to make do with what you've got you'll see less performance. But RAM is now so cheap, it's hardly an issue.
Only when you're running real 64-bit apps. I bet 64-bit over WOW32 will still be common by the time Longhorn is released.

"In terms of disks, you're really going to want S-ATA 2hard drives with NCQ capability because it gives the OS the ability to get on with stuff while disk tasks complete. All the tier 1 and tier 2 vendors can provide this capability today.
NCQ makes no difference in most (edit: consumer scenarios). The fact that your hard disk is SATA 2 doesn't mean a thing either. That's like having a GeForce 6200 TC 512MB on a PCIe x16 bus and boasting you've got the bestest video card.

"Thirdly, the graphics card and system bus is essential. PCI x16 is going to be very important. Any of today's 3D GPUs will be fine? we're not waiting for some mystical monster that may or may not come out. But they need to have 128MB of RAM on it. If they've only got 64 don't panic.

I didn't recall Windows being more intensive than Battlefield 2, which can run pretty well on AGP 8x (and even 128MB) cards. So what is it, 64, 128, or 256 MB of VRAM?

"We acknowledge that many corporate notebooks have fairly low-end integrated graphics chips. They're not exactly high performance graphics systems. For those users, we will provide a classic UI that looks like XP, and then we will have Aero that will start to make use of the GPU, and then there's Aero Glass that will demand the higher level.
I hope they do for PCs too. Obviously a lot of PC users don't have top-end graphics cards either.

Then again, Windows ("the computer" in consumer terms) is the only way a lot of people will buy a new video card. I'm sure most people don't even know why their games are slow. If the requirement of a 256MB VRAM card is right, most cards in that range wlil be able to run their games faster, so that's a good way of looking at it. Then we won't have so many people lagging the industry. It would be interesting to see how that affects ATI/NVIDIA's next GPUs.
 

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
8,877
1
81
Originally posted by: VIAN
http://www.apcstart.com/teched/pivot/entry.php?id=6

"In a 32 bit environment, half a gig of RAM is heaps. It's going to fly. For 64 bit you're going to want 2 gigs of DDR3 RAM.

"If you move from 32 to 64 bit, you basically need to at least double your memory. 2 gigs in 64 bit is the equivalent of a gig of RAM on a 32bit machine. That's because you're dealing with chunks that are twice the size? if you try to make do with what you've got you'll see less performance. But RAM is now so cheap, it's hardly an issue.

"In terms of disks, you're really going to want S-ATA 2hard drives with NCQ capability because it gives the OS the ability to get on with stuff while disk tasks complete. All the tier 1 and tier 2 vendors can provide this capability today.

"Thirdly, the graphics card and system bus is essential. PCI x16 is going to be very important. Any of today's 3D GPUs will be fine? we're not waiting for some mystical monster that may or may not come out. But they need to have 128MB of RAM on it. If they've only got 64 don't panic.

"We acknowledge that many corporate notebooks have fairly low-end integrated graphics chips. They're not exactly high performance graphics systems. For those users, we will provide a classic UI that looks like XP, and then we will have Aero that will start to make use of the GPU, and then there's Aero Glass that will demand the higher level.

"We are talking a year out here, so I have no doubt the vendors will address this in that period of time.?

im calling shens on the article. no way the requiremwnts are all that out there when the vista bewta runs so well on on current non monstr pcs.(128mb vram for aero glass? BS)

needing pci-e 16x? Huge bs. Vista runs well no a apg platform since the performance difference is negligible and vista is not going to stretch the gfx boundaries beyond some transparent window borders.

obviously the aprt about SATA/NCQ means that the guy knows exactly nothing about what's he's talking about.

I'm guessing it's all BS.
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
0
71
Originally posted by: mwmorph

im calling shens on the article. no way the requiremwnts are all that out there when the vista bewta runs so well on on current non monstr pcs.(128mb vram for aero glass? BS)

needing pci-e 16x? Huge bs. Vista runs well no a apg platform since the performance difference is negligible and vista is not going to stretch the gfx boundaries beyond some transparent window borders.

obviously the aprt about SATA/NCQ means that the guy knows exactly nothing about what's he's talking about.

I'm guessing it's all BS.

I'm also calling shens here. What kind of FUD is this? Vista needing 2GB of RAM and a 256MB video card... please! So, what, is the GPU going to be cranking at full all of the time?

So they mention RAM is so cheap now that it's hardly an issue, yet they also reccomend DDR3, which is unavailable (and not on the horizon even) as system memory.

This is just a call to get everyone out there to upgrade, a nice big handshake between Microsoft, Intel, AMD, and every other hardware manufacturer out there (or a bored writer somewhere).

I see they give the obligatory nod to dual core (we know this already! Dual core can help any OS provided you run enough programs). I'm surprised they didn't mention needing phase change cooling and heavy overclocking as well.

PCI x16 being very important... No wonder consumers are so confused about hardware!
 
Jun 14, 2003
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if that monitor thing is true then man im glad i got a paltry 17inch monitor

all those people who splashed out on the beautifull FP2405 things from Dell, or the apple cinema displays would be well gutted they cant use it on a Vista based system
 

will889

Golden Member
Sep 15, 2003
1,463
5
81
I'm guessing that 1 gig will still be the sweet spot for the OS, but 1.5 to 2 gigs would be best for newer games in general. I don't think AGP VS PCIe will make any difference at all.
 

jazzboy

Senior member
May 2, 2005
232
0
0
Sounds like that site just wants some attention.

Seriously check the requirements of OSs before;

Win ME - P150, 32MB - Runs fine on P2 with 96MB Ram

Win 2k - P133, 32MB - Runs fine on P233 with 128MB ram

Win XP - P233, 64MB - Runs fine on p2-400 with 256 ram

And before anyone asks - yes ive use those OSs on those sort of rigs with virus scanners/messengers, the lot in the background and was happy.

Seriously, i don't think the requirements for vista would be any worse than something like:

Minimum
----------
Athlon/P3 600mhz, 256 Ram, DX7 video card

Recommended
-----------------
Athlon/P3 1Ghz, 512 Ram, DX9 card

otherwise microsoft would lose quite a few sales.


Anyway where did this requirement of DDR3 come from? What the heck does memory type have to do with this - not to mention that type doesn't even exist yet anyway.
 
Nov 11, 2004
10,855
0
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Originally posted by: jazzboy
Sounds like that site just wants some attention.

Seriously check the requirements of OSs before;

Win ME - P150, 32MB - Runs fine on P2 with 96MB Ram

Win 2k - P133, 32MB - Runs fine on P233 with 128MB ram

Win XP - P233, 64MB - Runs fine on p2-400 with 256 ram

And before anyone asks - yes ive use those OSs on those sort of rigs with virus scanners/messengers, the lot in the background and was happy.

Seriously, i don't think the requirements for vista would be any worse than something like:

Minimum
----------
Athlon/P3 600mhz, 256 Ram, DX7 video card

Recommended
-----------------
Athlon/P3 1Ghz, 512 Ram, DX9 card

otherwise microsoft would lose quite a few sales.


Anyway where did this requirement of DDR3 come from? What the heck does memory type have to do with this - not to mention that type doesn't even exist yet anyway.

I really think it's retarded.. Memory speed shouldn't matter at all. I've got DDR which outperforms about every consumer, mid-high overclocking stick.
And unless DDR3 is going to appear at speeds of 1400MHz+ @ 4-4-4-8 or lower, it really won't matter as much as capacity of memory does.
 

jazzboy

Senior member
May 2, 2005
232
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Written like a 7th grader who just discovered what a computer is.


I take it that was directed at me.

Was it really necessary of you to say that?
 

TheoPetro

Banned
Nov 30, 2004
3,499
1
0
Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
if that monitor thing is true then man im glad i got a paltry 17inch monitor

all those people who splashed out on the beautifull FP2405 things from Dell, or the apple cinema displays would be well gutted they cant use it on a Vista based system

honestly with how great vista is sounding (sarcasim) ill prob be using XP untill whatevers after vista comes out
 

sparkyclarky

Platinum Member
May 3, 2002
2,389
0
0
Originally posted by: jazzboy
Originally posted by: Genx87
Written like a 7th grader who just discovered what a computer is.


I take it that was directed at me.

Was it really necessary of you to say that?

He was talking about the article the OP referenced.
 

sparkyclarky

Platinum Member
May 3, 2002
2,389
0
0
Originally posted by: Lonyo
"So what we'll have with S-ATA 2 are IDE drives that work just like SCSI drives. SCSI has always been way too pricey for desktop use. But now you can get an "effective" SCSI drive of 250GB for $215. You're right up to SCSI drive speed with S-ATA-2.
Err, no you're not.
7200rpm vs 15000rpm makes fairly sure of that.

RPM is not the end all be all of HD speed for standard, non server desktop use. The Raptor is widely hailed as being the fastest HD for consumer level apps/games, even though it only has a 10k RPM spindle speed (see storagereview). Where SCSI drives truly pull ahead is in server applications, both from a reliability standpoint, and from a performance standpoint (where both the firmware and hardware is tailored towards server use).
 

jazzboy

Senior member
May 2, 2005
232
0
0
Originally posted by: sparkyclarky
Originally posted by: jazzboy
Originally posted by: Genx87
Written like a 7th grader who just discovered what a computer is.


I take it that was directed at me.

Was it really necessary of you to say that?

He was talking about the article the OP referenced.


Ok. Oooops, sorry about that. My mistake :eek:
 

will889

Golden Member
Sep 15, 2003
1,463
5
81
I have been thinking about this as well, and i think this time instead of jumping on the OS i'll keep XP until Vista SP1 at least is out - if not SP2.