Originally posted by: shortylickens
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'd say the bias is yours. You assume that the only 'real' work is what you think it is. You assume that there is no 'leadership' or whatever outside of the limited scope of experience you have. Seeing that I worked for the Commander of Naval Surface Forces for the Atlantic Fleet I'd say I was in a pretty good position to view 'leadership' first hand. Seeing as I advanced to petty officer from E1 in less than six months I'd say the military agreed.
You allow for no middle ground between scraping the sides of ship and prancing around working parties. That shows your ignorance, not mine. Without administrative, intelligence, and support staff the rest of fleet is a bunch of directionless puppets on a pleasure cruise. You'll notice that most high-ranking (read important) members of the military serve at bases, and in DC. That suggests that you put people where they'll do the most good. Putting someone with exceptional administrative skills on the side of ship with a scraper is what would hinder the military mission.
I actually don't believe most of that. I fear and respect a ship's captain far more than I do most administrative admirals. What I was doing was making a valid point. As to the rest:
There's a big difference between standing up for rights and principles, and being a complainer. There's also a big similarity between working hard on a ship, and working hard anywhere else. If you're focused on your job and working 36 hours straight, then that's what you're doing - location is largely irrelevant (unless you're under fire of course).
I could (and would) also argue that the problem with America is not people who are unwilling to work hard to accomplish a mission, but instead people who are willing to simply do what they're told and not consider the morality and/or neccessity of those greater actions.
I spent the past couple days trying to find an article on weapons in the UK. One of the posters talked to me in much the same way you have. Couldnt find it because of the search issues we seem to be having, but I seem to recall the basis of my response.
Your only arguments left are clinging to the esteemed office of which you had no real influence and also, making up weaknesses for me out of thin air and then attacking them. You say I have limited scope when I got work with snotty little bitches like yourself, as well as the surface, air, sub, supply, intelligence and C&C aspect of the Navy.
You see, I didnt just chip paint, after getting into the ET field I got to work with all kinds of people for many different reasons.
Based on your responses you know nothing of real leadership, but because you got to meet flag officers and CO's of various types you assume you know more than the average sailor.
And the "MILITARY" did not agree with you making petty officer in less than 6 months. We all know how bunked up the Navy advancement system is, particularily with regards to staff positions. Pull your head out of your ass. It doesnt look professional for seaman and airman to be serving cushy little staff duty, or so I've been told. And I got to deal with plenty of you folks before, not that I relished it. I know the arrogance involved when the little people get to rub shoulders with the brass. Hell, I saw plenty of such arrogance even when folks didnt have much of that experience. Your derisive attitude is a classic example of such feelings.
Again, going back to your style of argument: making up arguments for me so you can have something to attack.
I allowed for plenty of middle ground. I only said people should complain less. And its always the people on base with high-ranking members who consider themselves to be important. (You'll notice I didnt put words into your mouth, you actually said that.)
As far as putting someone with good admin skills on the side of a ship, well, it happened all the time. Which shows your actual ignorance as opposed to my accused ignorance.
Again I suspect you spent a little too much time with folks telling you that you were hot stuff. Testiment to the arrogance you've already displayed thus far. The military mission has constantly been hindered by giving people the wrong billets. I find it only slightly amusing that you think you really were special. ANYBODY can push paper in the military. Everytime we had some poor baby who didnt like chipping paint and birdnesting mooring lines, they would send him down to the office, and he would do just fine.
But eventually those guys would have a nervous breakdown from not seeing their girlfriends and deck department would shrink too much. You know what would happen when we had to send down some crusty, 4 year deck ape?
He would do even BETTER. Because the work ethic was better, and the work wasnt that bad. (And yes, I saw the same thing as an ET in the comm community, and aviation, and working with sub guys, and supply, and even the strategic and tactical community.)
As far as questioning the morality of your actions, that comment leads me straight to believe you never really worked for the LANTFLT staff. I know darn well they dont want anyone, particularily junior enlisted, questioning the morality of their decisions. It is not a democratic system. It only exists to protect democracy.
You are exactly the kind of sorry sailor I was complaining about earlier. You have to use bully tactics and when you cant find the weaknesses or poor arguments you need to counter, you make them up. You are weak and useless and justify your existence in the military with BS.
You would make an excellent lawyer someday, and I dont mean that as a compliment.
Thanks very much for your patience while I worked on a coherent post.
ROFL! Military cooks tend to be some of the worst in the world. Not always because they lack any basic skills, but because of what they have to work with, (often) working conditions, and the quantities they prepare...
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