Would you be opposed to the return of the dongle ?

[Modelworks]

Curious as to what others think.
Before all the cdrom protections there was dongles. Then everyone jumped on the software protected bandwagon and it died out quite a bit.

There are now dongles on the market that work like this:
A single dongle, a special usb thumbdrive, holds all software licenses.
The dongle has a unique serial number.
When you purchase a software license, you are given a serial number.
That serial number is entered on the publishers site along with your unique dongle serial number.
You are then given a counter code.
You enter the counter code in the application and the license is created and stored on the dongle.
The software can be installed on any pc as many times as you want, but will only work as long as the dongle is attached to the pc.
Of course the license files cannot be copied off the dongle as they are encoded for that specific dongle.

The downside of this is that using a single device for storage of all license keys would be bad if the device fails or you lose the dongle and having too many dongles can be a pain to keep up with . There are companies that will 'backup' the license files so they can be restored in the event of a loss/damage. They require the old dongle for damage claims before replacing and loss claims have a limit as to how many can be claimed.

This is currently for software that is in the $5K+ range, but it could be adapted to other cheaper software, especially since usb thumbdrives are so cheap now.


The plus of all this is no software has to be installed on the host pc to use the protection. So nothing to interfere with anything else you do on the pc and you can use the software on any pc you like as long as the dongle is present.

 

[BladeVenom]

That might be OK for professional software you need for a job, but to much hassle for games. Besides I'd bet it would still be cracked.

 

[Maleficus]

Absolutley, they get cracked/emulated and it would be a PITA for all legitimate users.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Maleficus
Absolutley, they get cracked/emulated and it would be a PITA for all legitimate users.

They do get cracked but I think it would be easier for gamers to only have to have a dongle attached for all games than it is now with cd protections.

The software I have that uses a dongle has no protection on the dvd at all. Make all the copies you want. So you could have backups of the media, just need the dongle to play it.
Something you can't do now with games.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I'd much rather have to call EA once every 4-6 years when my activation limit is exceeded than mess with dongles.

That said, no DRM at all would be nice but good luck with it happening any time soon for major publishers.

 

[BladeVenom]

Go back to having printed maps and booklets being useful. Nice for those who buy the game, an inconvenience to those who pirate the game and don't have them.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Go back to having printed maps and booklets being useful. Nice for those who buy the game, an inconvenience to those who pirate the game and don't have them.

Except you have to dig out the manual every time you play.
And they would be scanned and sent along with the game on torrents.
I hated finding word 4 in sentence 3 of paragraph 1 on page 12 in those old games.

 

[Bateluer]

Nope. Stardock and Steam have already created the solutions, the large publishers just choose not to see it.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Nope. Stardock and Steam have already created the solutions, the large publishers just choose not to see it.

They are only part of the solution.

Steam is great unless you have no network connection.

Stardock has some good ideas, but the logic of no protection and only protecting the updates works with only the smaller titles. If you have a large budget title and release it with no protection at all , it will be pirated heavily. Cracked patches of updates are released all the time, so that is moot as well.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Go back to having printed maps and booklets being useful. Nice for those who buy the game, an inconvenience to those who pirate the game and don't have them.

Except you have to dig out the manual every time you play.
And they would be scanned and sent along with the game on torrents.
I hated finding word 4 in sentence 3 of paragraph 1 on page 12 in those old games.

I didn't mean word look ups. I said useful like with thorough instructions, charts, stats, nice maps, etc. Like good game manuals use to be. I know I prefer a real manual to a pdf. It's not a solution to stop piracy; it's an incentive to buy the game.

 

[ubercaffeinated]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Nope. Stardock and Steam have already created the solutions, the large publishers just choose not to see it.

agree. steam is great.

 

[JSt0rm]

I have an ilok (ilok.com) for all my professional apps but for games? ehh. I don't know if it would help as all the apps on the ilok dongle are cracked on the pc anyhow.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I have an ilok (ilok.com) for all my professional apps but for games? ehh. I don't know if it would help as all the apps on the ilok dongle are cracked on the pc anyhow.

ilok I think actually has the right idea. It allows protection but doesn't go overboard with it.
It will not stop people from using cracks, but allows publishers to put protection on the software without using things like securom that make it so you can't even back up your game.
Although I do not agree with how they implemented it with requiring drivers.
That part is not really necessary with current tech.

 

[nitromullet]

Yes, I would be opposed to the return of the dongle. I have no issues with DRM as long it it doesn't interfere with my experience, and a dongle sounds like a pain in the ass. I also don't mind having to insert the disk every time I play a game, but what I do mind is if software publishers require me to keep some additional piece of hardware or call to ask for permission to play a game a paid for just because I upgraded my PC. The problem with the dongle, like the limited number of activations, is that it puts the burden, responsibility, and cost of protecting some company's intellectual property on the customer and not the company.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Maleficus
Absolutley, they get cracked/emulated and it would be a PITA for all legitimate users.

They do get cracked but I think it would be easier for gamers to only have to have a dongle attached for all games than it is now with cd protections.

The software I have that uses a dongle has no protection on the dvd at all. Make all the copies you want. So you could have backups of the media, just need the dongle to play it.
Something you can't do now with games.

Yes you can.
EA even says that if your Spore installation disc won't work for whatever reason, you can just copy all the files from the DVD to your hard drive, and install the game from the hard drive instead of from the disc.

Disc based copy protection is a thing of the past, and DRM isn't necessarily about stopping people from copying the disc.

 

[Raduque]

I wouldn't mind a dongle. I'm picturing just a tiny fingernail-sized device with a USB connector - hell, I could use a custom USB cable, connect it directly to a USB header on my mobo and mount the dongle inside my case with double-sided tape. That being said, I'd be opposed to it unless every big dev (and quite a few small ones) were on board to put licenses all on the same dongle.

I don't mind activation/online authentication, especially with like Mass Effect. I don't even know what I did with the DVD but I can still play the game. Steam is also FTW.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Nope. Stardock and Steam have already created the solutions, the large publishers just choose not to see it.

They are only part of the solution.

Steam is great unless you have no network connection.

Stardock has some good ideas, but the logic of no protection and only protecting the updates works with only the smaller titles. If you have a large budget title and release it with no protection at all , it will be pirated heavily. Cracked patches of updates are released all the time, so that is moot as well.

I disagree. How many copies of Sins did Stardock & Ironclad sell? Over a million, last I heard. That's a healthy chunk of profit, considering that they paid no licensing fees for any form of DRM, as well as a very large number of sales for a PC game.

You can run Steam in offline mode, but I assume you are referring to someone with either no Internet access at all or a very slow one. Yeah, that is a valid downside of Steam, and any online content delivery system. Its also a weak point in the US broad band market. It's something I can't really counter, aside from saying that a person who can afford a decent gaming PC and to fork out money every month to buy games, can also afford an internet connection.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: Bateluer




You can run Steam in offline mode, but I assume you are referring to someone with either no Internet access at all or a very slow one. Yeah, that is a valid downside of Steam, and any online content delivery system. Its also a weak point in the US broad band market. It's something I can't really counter, aside from saying that a person who can afford a decent gaming PC and to fork out money every month to buy games, can also afford an internet connection.

Not everybody has BB available, or wishes to pay that much for a BB connection. I could buy a *nice* gaming computer every year for what I spend on internet access. The only reason I have cable now is because Verizon was jerking me around on a repair issue. I was happy enough with 56k, and I don't appreciate the forced patches, and required net access to play a sp game. I'm alright with Steam now, but I don't trust the system, and I still find it annoying when my games auto patch on connection.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: lxskllr. . . I don't appreciate the forced patches, and required net access to play a sp game. I'm alright with Steam now, but I don't trust the system, and I still find it annoying when my games auto patch on connection.

You can turn off the forced patches for the games. In the Steam Games listing, right click on your Steam game, select Properties, Updates tab, and select Do not automatically update this game. For SP games, this may be fine, but MP games should have the latest updates or you'll often be unable to join games.

Edit - I pay about 50/month for my cable, which is about 600 per year. You are not going to build a high end gaming platform every year for that. Also, DSL connections can be had for between 15 to 25 dollars per month in a lot of areas, usually 256Kb though. Better than dial up, but still fast enough to use Steam effectively, provided you start your game downloads before you go to work or go to bed.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: Bateluer



Edit - I pay about 50/month for my cable, which is about 600 per year. You are not going to build a high end gaming platform every year for that. Also, DSL connections can be had for between 15 to 25 dollars per month in a lot of areas, usually 256Kb though. Better than dial up, but still fast enough to use Steam effectively, provided you start your game downloads before you go to work or go to bed.

I pay $70 per month, and no DSL for me :^(

 

[imported_Imp]

If it comes to this much useless crap to just play a pointless game, I'll just start using Steam exclusively. I never turn on my system without an internet connection anyways.

 

[Chaotic42]

Let's just go back to cartridge based games.

 

[bullbert]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Edit - I pay about 50/month for my cable, which is about 600 per year. You are not going to build a high end gaming platform every year for that.

You are kidding, right? $600/year? Think of that as $3000 over a five year cycle. Smart upgraders do not buy new a new PS or new HD or new HDTV with every HW upgrade. But even if you completely threw away every piece of HW every 12 months, by reading Hot Deals boards, you could still almost build a very nice bleeding edge gaming systems for that price (sans monitor).

I think a $100/year budget is about right and $200/year is overkill (but fun). Even less if you sell your old hardware instead of doing hand-me-downs or even just junking it. Alternate replacing the CPU/MB and the video card every other year. That, and move to the new 790GX AMD/ATI hybrid graphics MB-chipset/Video-cards, or wait a couple more years for Intel chipsets to catch up if you are an Intel-only fanboy. It had been years since I purchased an ATI product, but that is my thought process for my next upgrades. You also have to upgrade the:
* DRAM with each major motherboard generation (ie DDR, DDR2, DDR3, next...) -or- DRAM doubled with each OS upgrade
* hard drives and power supply with each third or fourth motherboard generation
* opticial drive(s) upon failure, or every 10 years with the next optical generation (ie CD, DVD, BR, next...)
* keyboards, mice, speakers every decade or two unless they fail earlier
* monitor(s) and/or HDTVs upon failure
* network routers/repeaters/etc every decade unless you move to a new larger residence
but those costs average out over 4 to 10+ years.

And, of course, this is assuming you really WANT to upgrade so often. Otherwise a new system every 4 to 8 years would keep you playing 98% of the available good games.