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Would you be OK with work camps for illegal immigrants?

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rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
76
Open our borders?

Are you out of your fucking mind? Uncontrolled immigration would be a terrible thing for this country.

Within just a few years, we'd be up to our necks in uneducated immigrants looking to "better their lives," with the end result of dragging the US standard of living down to that of Mexico and other 3rd world nations.

Remember, Illegal Immigration IS a crime.
http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/isacrime.html
Did you read the rest of my post? Make legal more accessible yet demand something of those coming across.

Posting guards every 15 feet along the border simply doesn't make sense and what we have isn't working.

People want to come be Americans? LET THEM, but make it clear what we expect from our citizens.

They should make a lot easier to become a paying citizen of this country than it is right now. I have a lot of friends from other countries and it took them YEARS and cost a fortune for some of them.

If people are so upset with illegals not paying their keep then don't make it so fucking convoluted to be a tax-paying citizen of this country.

It's not right that people come here illegally but it's hardly difficult to see that the system in place creates these problems.
This. We could use more taxpayers.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
57,747
6,021
126
Did you read the rest of my post? Make legal more accessible yet demand something of those coming across.

Posting guards every 15 feet along the border simply doesn't make sense and what we have isn't working.

People want to come be Americans? LET THEM, but make it clear what we expect from our citizens.

I read the rest of your post...I just disagree.

The US should establish a more stringent quota for immigration and develop a list of trades, specialties, and professions that we NEED here and ONLY allow in people who meet those criteria.
There are already TOO MANY unemployed Americans...The corporations who want H1B workers? They need to work with the established list...and when those jobs are filled, that's it for the year.
If they need more trained workers, let the corporations help foot the bill to train AMERICANS to fill the jobs.

This is America. It's not supposed to be EASY to get here...You gotta want it badly...and we should be very picky about who we let in here.

Yes, I'm a nativist and a nationalist...and not the least bit embarrassed by it.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
This I agree with. We were built on immigration. That is what made us what we are today. All countries should do the same, after all we are one Species, Human.
I have no problem with anyone who wants to come here and be an American citizen doing so as long as they want to come here to be a productive member of society. Make every attempt to adapt to American society as opposed to expecing America to adapt to them. And want to be an American as opposed to an < insert nationality here > living in this country flying their countries flag for example.

But expecting America to just open it's boarders letting anyone come here to 'better themselves' because we're all human is just not realistic. I can't just go some other country as an American citizen and try and work, use their services, not speak the language of the nation, drive around with an American flag on my car and expect everything to be rosey because I'm a human like they are, can I?
 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
76
I read the rest of your post...I just disagree.

The US should establish a more stringent quota for immigration and develop a list of trades, specialties, and professions that we NEED here and ONLY allow in people who meet those criteria.
There are already TOO MANY unemployed Americans...The corporations who want H1B workers? They need to work with the established list...and when those jobs are filled, that's it for the year.
If they need more trained workers, let the corporations help foot the bill to train AMERICANS to fill the jobs.

This is America. It's not supposed to be EASY to get here...You gotta want it badly...and we should be very picky about who we let in here.

Yes, I'm a nativist and a nationalist...and not the least bit embarrassed by it.
I don't disagree with you, in principle. I just don't think it's a realistic position to take.

Securing the border to the point where noone would get across will take far, far too much money, and even if you put guards every 40 feet, people will still get across.

I think our efforts would be better spent getting the people who are already here, stressing our system, integrated and paying taxes. Then make sure everyone else who comes in will also.

As for being nativist, I simply don't see that as being a very honest position because you exempt yourself, and I don't think it's very American - I see America as a land of strength primarily because we're all mutts to one degree or another.

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
No. Slavery was abolished. Anybody who thinks this is a good idea should be really ashamed of themselves! This is a horrible and disgusting idea. This is certainly one of the worst ideas I'd ever heard in my life.

We should instead do things to encourage responsible immigration.
I would make an approach with these goals:
1.) Remove their excuse to illegally enter.
2.) Block them from taking advantage of the system.
3.) Try to remove some of their motivation to come illegally.

To do that, I'd do the following
1.) Increase immigration quotas.
2.) Citizenship should be a requirement for medicaid, medicare, welfare, food stamps benefits.
3.) In order to find what companies are paying people cash and not reporting it, many more audits of businesses should be performed. Any company caught cheating the IRS by paying employees in cash should be heavily fined or shut down.

I'm sure I haven't thought everything through ..... but it seems to make a lot more sense than making people into slaves.
Best post in the thread and a good start!
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,094
879
126
Did you read the rest of my post? Make legal more accessible yet demand something of those coming across.

Posting guards every 15 feet along the border simply doesn't make sense and what we have isn't working.

People want to come be Americans? LET THEM, but make it clear what we expect from our citizens.
Please explain what about our current LEGAL immigration process you would get rid of to make things easier. (BTW this is trick question.) We have a process in place already.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,094
879
126
I read the rest of your post...I just disagree.

The US should establish a more stringent quota for immigration and develop a list of trades, specialties, and professions that we NEED here and ONLY allow in people who meet those criteria.
There are already TOO MANY unemployed Americans...The corporations who want H1B workers? They need to work with the established list...and when those jobs are filled, that's it for the year.
If they need more trained workers, let the corporations help foot the bill to train AMERICANS to fill the jobs.

This is America. It's not supposed to be EASY to get here...You gotta want it badly...and we should be very picky about who we let in here.

Yes, I'm a nativist and a nationalist...and not the least bit embarrassed by it.
What about non-work related visas?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I can't blame folks wanting to come to this country to make their dream the American dream. I suppose the many who've came here over time have not evolved their off spring with the gene of memory.
Once you become the Haves you want to keep it that way and I understand that too. But never forget that these are humans... hungry, poor and human.
I'm not really sure I'm not a bit NIMBY but I'd hope I could find a way to enable everyone to share my heritige... Not the one in Ireland where the British felt it was a good idea to let my people die than ship them food... not that one.. the one I enjoy... albeit on the back of the major tax payer... for which I thank who ever does pay taxes...
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Perhaps we could use them to construct a thick 100 ft tall fence on the Mexican border.
Two hundred foot tall fences don't obviate tunnels (ers).. hehehehehehe How about getting some maze and turkeys and welcome them home.... (Our southern friends) They owned most of the area from Texas to California at one time...
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
61
I can't believe a few people here would support the idea of slave labor, and that is exactly what is being suggested by the OP. If you think otherwise, google some old pro-slavery arguments, and see for yourself.

Beyond that, illegal immigration is not the source of the problem. It's a symptom. Definitely there are those who want to come here, work hard, and be an American. Others come here for the free hand-outs, and this is the actual source of our problem, the hand-outs are the disease.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
10,835
2,061
126
IF you want to stop illegal immigration, attack it at it's source, improve conditions where they come from instead of exploiting them. US corps are really bad at that at our expense.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,783
3,191
126
Read the sentence again. They are not prisoners. Everyone knows this.
No you read it again...

Lets say the government is considering establishing work camps in the south of the country, where illegal migrant workers will receive shelter, food and medical care. In exchange, illegal migrants would perform manual labor outside the camps,

but would not earn a salary.

They would stay at the camp until their asylum claims are decided, which could take months or years.


Sure sounds like a concentration....err...work camp to me!!

No salary......they would be forced to stay till their asylum claim is decided...hmm
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,554
2
76
Lets say the government is considering establishing work camps in the south of the country, where illegal migrant workers will receive shelter, food and medical care. In exchange, illegal migrants would perform manual labor outside the camps, but would not earn a salary.

They would stay at the camp until their asylum claims are decided, which could take months or years.


Would you be okay with this?

Thread moved to P&N due to the nature of the discussion - DrPizza, Anandtech Moderator.
Hm, start with the welfare recipients, I find many Mexicans to have amazing work ethics.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Um. I am pretty sure such work camps would be unconstitutional per the 13 amendment.

I have a better idea. The federal government deports all illegal immigrants and if someone wants to come to this country legally they can do that. The fact of the matter is that those who come here illegally show disrespect for the United States and its laws as they are breaking them. If they cannot follow the rules why should they be allowed to stay in any form?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
I think it is an idea with a lot of merit. Those opposed to illegals leeching off the system will see that they are doing honest, positive work. The US' infrastructure could do with updates and the illegals will no longer have to live with the constant uncertainty of navigating the economy, legal system etc. in a state of limbo.

Although they could not leave the camps until their status is sorted out, the camps would not be prison-like in that the illegals could still mingle about, even have stores inside the camps and stuff like that.

One possible problem is what to do with the kids, so I think a best effort would be done to keep kids with families, say those 8 and older could be capable of basic manual labor. With the younger kids put them up for foster car (with the ability of the illegal to "buy back" their kid if they get out and cover basic processing fees within a certain period of time, say 12 months). In the case of the kids who for some reason cannot enter foster care or are not compatible with it they could be used for essential medical testing (as long as it passed an ethics board).

One other problem that comes to mind is that most of these illegals are inherently lazy and unmotivated, so probably for a camp of, say, 1000 people you'd need to make an example out of a random illegal every week or two, probably by guards beating him or her.

If the US did something like this it would be a win-win for everyone and the US would make a fine example to the rest of the world in how to deal with their illegal immigrant problem.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,094
879
126
IF you want to stop illegal immigration, attack it at it's source, improve conditions where they come from instead of exploiting them. US corps are really bad at that at our expense.
Not our responsibility.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
I like this game... I'm gonna pick Gypsies because they have magic!



On a serious note though, I don't understand why our government is okay with illegal aliens hiding out in our country, draining our resources when they contribute nothing while we have regular American citizens strapped for cash and out of jobs?
Capitalism.

Isn't that what the DP (displaced people)/dirty Irish immigrants were label as jobs stealer not many years ago?
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
6
76
No not okay. You cannot constitutionally make someone work for any reason. That is called slavery.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
8,993
100
106
That seems to be illegal, impractical, and even counterproductive. We do need more boarder patrol to keep people from coming across in droves, but the best changes can be made here at home. We need to hire more govt workers to streamline the immigration process (the backlog is pretty atrocious from what I've been told), institute a requirement of basic English skills, and hire more investigators/auditors to go after businesses who are suspected of hiring them. That will ensure that those who want to come here and be a productive part of our society can stay while discouraging those who do not share our ideals or assimilate.
 

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