Would TV Upgrade be Worth it? (Solved!)

[Virgorising]

Hi.

I am trying to be energy efficient as usual. Plus in January, Con(man) Edison here, without warning, raised our energy bills almost 20%....they say, reflects cost of natural gas or some such chicanery.

And, where I live, we already pay the highest per kwh in the country to begin with.

Getting new hugely energy efficient fridge really made a difference last summer, I must say.

So, I currently have old 40" flat screen TV. LCD. Still works perfectly. But, It draws 200W. that would be around twice what a new, carefully chosen LED might be. TV is on a lot, both I and my BF not too responsible about this.

I can't give average number of hours per day, cause it varies greatly, but, would there be significant savings per month should I get a new, more energy efficient TV?

I have delved online, and sometimes it seems so, other times, not so much.

Thank you!

 

[JoeMcJoe]

No.

Don't forget in the winter any electronics in use actually heat the house a little.

#1 saving in a home is to block any air leaks then insulate.

 

[Virgorising]

No.

Don't forget in the winter any electronics in use actually heat the house a little.

#1 saving in a home is to block any air leaks then insulate.

That.....was hilarious....tho I am not entirely sure you might not have been serious.
I live in a famous, pre war landmark building. We have two stores high, under the basement level, state of the art heating plant. It is breathtaking. On a cold winter's day like today--- but it's been even colder of late---(sit down, please), we go thru SIX HUNDRED GALLONS of #6 heating oil. Yes....a day.

Our concrete tank in its room just off the heating plant, holds 5K gallons. So, when it's like this, the gorgeous, huge tanker semi with the MAC cab, pulls up at dawn around every 4 days.

But heat/hot water are not my concerns and not part of what we pay ConEd for each month. We pay ConEd only for ELECTRICITY. ConEd's natural gas rationalization was referencing THEIR overhead.

So, factoring that in, are you saying buying a new TV which may be more than twice as energy efficient as the current one would not be worth it?

 

[Soundmanred]

No, it would not be worth it.

 

[Virgorising]

No, it would not be worth it.

See? I think the same. But my BF and other friends think otherwise.

This is not at all the same as having gotten the new fridge. That, really was worth it.

I am waiting for someone to arrive who thinks it would worth it and give numbers.
______________________________________________________
Edit: just found this:
http://www.ledtv.org/content/5-reasons-purchase-led-tv

When they say $100 a year, trust me, they are not reflecting what we here in Manhattan pay per kwh.

 

[Virgorising]

Just found this:

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-7596_102-399401/upgrade-lcd-tv-to-led-tv/

Boy, this topic is pretty confusing.

The Jumbotrons in Times Square are LED, but not consumer grade? The consumer grade LED TVs still have LCD elements? Who knew?

Decent new LED would cost a lot. And my old LED is made well, has every connectivity know to humanity....I think 6 or more HDMI ports alone.

 

[Midwayman]

Seems like the wiser move would be to look for a new place that isn't so energy inefficient.

 

[Virgorising]

Seems like the wiser move would be to look for a new place that isn't so energy inefficient.

K...first, Manhattan isn't energy inefficient apart from the amount of energy we use here re our dense population and physical structures and that we are open 24/7. (The City that never sleeps.) It's just off the hook expensive.

Next, energy costs are going up all over the world. Mainly, I think because big oil and other powerful fossil fuel entities are dug in and hell bent on precluding better alternatives.

Next, I love my city despite its metamorphosis, one, alas, in concert with the rest of the world. And, I love my building.

Next, learning to be green is more necessary now than ever before. Not just to save money, but for the collective.

So....this ain about throwing the baby out; this is about addressing what is muddying the bath water and evolving improvements to that.

 

[sdifox]

Just found this:

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-7596_102-399401/upgrade-lcd-tv-to-led-tv/

Boy, this topic is pretty confusing.

The Jumbotrons in Times Square are LED, but not consumer grade? The consumer grade LED TVs still have LCD elements? Who knew?

Decent new LED would cost a lot. And my old LED is made well, has every connectivity know to humanity....I think 6 or more HDMI ports alone.

The so called LED TV you buy in a store is actually LED BACKLIT LCD TV.

 

[Virgorising]

The so called LED TV you buy in a store is actually LED BACKLIT LCD Tv.

Hi! First, I just saw typo (SORRY!) In my post you are responding to above; I meant my old LCD TV, OF COURSE.

And, what you just posted, I started getting via that link I found! Wow. How many consumers you think know this?

VERY FEW, I'LL BET!!!!!!! I sure, didn't!!!!!!! Talk about caveat emptor.

Thank you!

 

[mmntech]

Hi.

I am trying to be energy efficient as usual. Plus in January, Con(man) Edison here, without warning, raised our energy bills almost 20%....they say, reflects cost of natural gas or some such chicanery.

Welcome to the club. The government owned electric utility here has been doing that every year for the last decade. Pretty much to pad the salaries of top civil servants and pay for the gov's pork barrelling.

Replacing the TV won't make much of a difference unless it's on 24/7. Modern CCFL backlit TVs use a fraction of the energy the old CRTs did. LED is definitely even more efficient but it will take a long time to recoup the cost of a new TV in electricity savings.

Besides, and I'm not trying to be cheeky here, if you want to save money, move out of New York. Even with the commute you'll probably still save a ton living out in Long Island or Jersey.

 

[Virgorising]

Welcome to the club. The government owned electric utility here has been doing that every year for the last decade. Pretty much to pad the salaries of top civil servants and pay for the gov's pork barrelling.

Well. Remember, down here, they are State & Municipally run. Here, our City Council is supposed to review submissions for rate increases, hold open hearings, and they do yay or nay. But it's true.....I can't recall one NAY so far.

Our current Gov Cuomo is a fierce chip off the paternal block. After the debacle of Hurricane Sandy---what was brought to light re all NY Utility Cos as a result was staggering---and Gov Cuomo launched into action and helmed important reforms from pure indignation, but, I think, mainly in other boroughs, not so much here. But he really is a reformer.

Replacing the TV won't make much of a difference unless it's on 24/7. Modern CCFL backlit TVs use a fraction of the energy the old CRTs did. LED is definitely even more efficient but it will take a long time to recoup the cost of a new TV in electricity savings.

I now agree: I think the capital outlay of a new LED TV, given the savings from lower wattage than my LCD would be no biggie---would not be justified.

Besides, and I'm not trying to be cheeky here, if you want to save money, move out of New York. Even with the commute you'll probably still save a ton living out in Long Island or Jersey.

Well, so far, I am good to go. As I said, I love this City, love my building, love my neighborhood, and want to hang in as long as I can. In many ways, I am proud to say (thanks mom and dad!) I am low maintenance and creative, and with no impact at ALL on my happiness. In fact being as I am in those ways, potentiates my happiness!!!

I have no idea what will happen down the road....nor is my default mode trying to live in the future. So, we shall see!!!!
________________________________________

Edit: What WOULD SAVE on my Con Ed bills, MAYBE, would be if I got rid of my compact fluorescent bulbs and bought LED bulbs. But, the latter are way expensive, and, I think not mature in their evolution yet.

So interesting, only now do I see bags full of INCANDESCENT BULBS, brand new, unused in the trash. My Wall street (not all but a lot) neighbors, clearly start to count their blood money pennies far later than we who are normal. Their version of GREEN, is confined to the dead Presidents.

 

[JoeMcJoe]

That.....was hilarious....tho I am not entirely sure you might not have been serious.
I live in a famous, pre war landmark building. We have two stores high, under the basement level, state of the art heating plant. It is breathtaking. On a cold winter's day like today--- but it's been even colder of late---(sit down, please), we go thru SIX HUNDRED GALLONS of #6 heating oil. Yes....a day.

Our concrete tank in its room just off the heating plant, holds 5K gallons. So, when it's like this, the gorgeous, huge tanker semi with the MAC cab, pulls up at dawn around every 4 days.

But heat/hot water are not my concerns and not part of what we pay ConEd for each month. We pay ConEd only for ELECTRICITY. ConEd's natural gas rationalization was referencing THEIR overhead.

So, factoring that in, are you saying buying a new TV which may be more than twice as energy efficient as the current one would not be worth it?

I was serious, basically saying that your tv costs you about $50 per year in energy, and spending money on a tv to save $10 per year isn't worth it.

Only buy a new tv if you want a new tv.

Want to save money? Watch it less.

600 gallons a day? That is a spendy apartment you have there, I couldn't afford to spend $1k per day in heating fuel.

 

[Virgorising]

I was serious, basically saying that your tv costs you about $50 per year in energy, and spending money on a tv to save $10 per year isn't worth it.

When I said that was hilarious, but wasn't sure if you were serious, I meant your comment re appliances help heat the home.

As for your assessment of how much this LCD TV costs per year, how can you possibly say, given you don't know what our per kwh cost is where I live?

Before I chose my new fridge this past summer, obviously I knew the wattage and the energy rating. But I had to first email ConEd---took them ten days to send me a stupid, useless reply, so, I then called which I should have done in the first place---got a fabulous human CS lady who did the math and gave me the exact number. Of course I knew going in that would also be impacted on the settings I might choose, the ambient temp during the year and now often the doors are opened.

So to arrive at any viable number, many things must be factored in.

And, if you look at a given ebill in PDF---I am on autopay but I often look at the bills online.... given the complexity, the taxes, the service and surcharges, the Byzantine elements comprising the bill.....nobody can easily come up with a simple metric for what we pay per kwh!

Only buy a new tv if you want a new tv.

But, see, wanting is mitigated and honed by many factors, yes?

Want to save money? Watch it less.

Forgive me, the above, is a rather harsh and Draconian route for any normal, solvent, intelligent human moved be more cost efficient. Telling someone who has off the hook cable, with subscriptions, bells, whistle, esoteric (not simple) DVRs to dial all that down, OK. Esp considering what cable boxes of that species cost! They draw power second only to the fridge.

Also, being a smart, frugal human is something I applaud in all people, outside any given level of income. And again, now, more than ever, being as GREEN AS POSSIBLE is crucial. Well, unless you're a GAMER with a custom rig, two GPUs, watercooling and an 900 W PSU. Hahahahahaha. But see, to a die hard gamer, gaming is a basic necessity. As TV is for most of us.

600 gallons a day? That is a spendy apartment you have there, I couldn't afford to spend $1k per day in heating fuel.

Yes, you got it right. As I posed accurately. This is a pre war, famous, landmark building. With the top penthouse over the PH floor, 17 stories. Commercial units (stores) at the street level, 131 residential units, 3 professional offices with entrances in our lobby.....Staff of 9 (7 of whom are Teamsters with uber salaries and benefits, forget what they get in cash at Xmas....run like the inside of a Patek Philippe.

And, despite what it costs to run---not even close to what other, much bigger residential or commercial buildings in Manhattan cost.....it is a very profitable property. the original group which began to build in in 1931, went bust because of The Great Depression; the Engineer on board organized a new team and took it over. That man was the grandfather of the guy who now runs it. He and his living relatives (all owners) all LIVE here, in the building... tho they all also have houses elsewhere, i.e. summer places in The Hamptons.

The two stories high boiler room...computer controlled, is like something from the bowels of a great ship. Vast space with splendid, complex equipment to heat two, gargantuan boilers.

Perhaps the visual I will put up below will help the 600 gallons of #6 on a very cold winter's day make more sense.

 

[sdifox]

Have you tried thin film window sealing? Basically plastic wrap your window frame with thin plasc sheet then heat shrink. Makes huge difference on heat loss.

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Indoor-Win...8608&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=window+wapping+kit

 

[Mushkins]

Back on topic, no, a newer and more energy efficient TV is not worth it, just like that new fridge very well might have not been worth it.

Figure you buy a new TV and save... $3 a month on the power bill if you're lucky. But you just spent what, $650 on that more efficient 40" TV? It would be 217 months before you actually saw a return on the investment, aka 18 years. Unless you plan to keep using that TV for the next two decades without buying a new one, there are no savings to be had here. And if you're worried about $650 spread out over 18 years, well, you probably shouldn't be buying a TV in the first place

 

[Virgorising]

Have you tried thin film window sealing? Basically plastic wrap your window frame with thin plasc sheet then heat shrink. Makes huge difference on heat loss.

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Indoor-Wind...ow+wapping+kit

Forgive me, I have shared this, but it got buried in posts: We who live here do not pay DIRECTLY for heat. The building owners do. So, while you suggestion is fab, right now, it is not an issue.

The only reason I know about every mm of this magnificent building which I luv as it were a living being.....is that's how I roll. It's also the reason my real peeps in the building are 3 guys on the staff.....the genius handi guys...NOT ONLY cause they give me open access to the workshop and all the tools, either! Pretty sure nobody else who lives here cares at all about any of the stuff I cherish and learn about.

 

[Virgorising]

Back on topic, no, a newer and more energy efficient TV is not worth it, just like that new fridge very well might have not been worth it.

Hey! First part above, I now feel is ACCURATE. Bu, second part, re the new fridge, THANKFULLY... absolutely wrong. Original fridge belonged to the building, was old and the opposite of energy efficient. When I delved after deciding to get a new one.....I knew before it arrived (very fun event).....exactly how much my bills would drop.....and they DID. Huge difference! Hand to heaven.

The main reason tho I am on autopay, I now look at my ebill online in PDF.....is, on the left of the bar showing that month's usage (we have giant meter room with individual meters which get read in person every month)...on the left, is a half tone bar reflecting usage from a year ago. Makes me so happy, that since getting the new fridge, despite the rates increases, my bill is much lower than before I got the new Whirlpool!

So as usual, so important to get every little part of the data!

Figure you buy a new TV and save... $3 a month on the power bill if you're lucky. But you just spent what, $650 on that more efficient 40" TV? It would be 217 months before you actually saw a return on the investment, aka 18 years. Unless you plan to keep using that TV for the next two decades without buying a new one, there are no savings to be had here. And if you're worried about $650 spread out over 18 years, well, you probably shouldn't be buying a TV in the first place

Above, I LUV....my kinda detailed, accurate data!:biggrin:

Now I will used this thread to shut up my BF and friends too many of whom are all about gotta get new; get rid of that thing!:sneaky)

Sometimes, not often with me, but i am human, everyone srceaming 'DUMP THAT!" impacts. Sad that people are about how narrow is the bezel , they think feather light is a good thing (tablet mentality0....and crapola like that. And shut up about 3D, OK?, Jus shut up.

In such as this topic, that I now have the privilege of posting here, where very sharp humans arrive with accurate, objective info.....is HUUUUUUGGGGE.:thumbsup::wub:

Not too bad here today....17 degrees. Mittens ROCK.

 

[Matt1970]

I think the car rule applies here. Selling your current car to buy a more fuel efficient car will always end up costing you more.

 

[Virgorising]

Back on topic, no, a newer and more energy efficient TV is not worth it, just like that new fridge very well might have not been worth it.

Figure you buy a new TV and save... $3 a month on the power bill if you're lucky. But you just spent what, $650 on that more efficient 40" TV? It would be 217 months before you actually saw a return on the investment, aka 18 years. Unless you plan to keep using that TV for the next two decades without buying a new one, there are no savings to be had here. And if you're worried about $650 spread out over 18 years, well, you probably shouldn't be buying a TV in the first place

I think the car rule applies here. Selling your current car to buy a more fuel efficient car will always end up costing you more.

But.....I would NO WAY even CONSIDER selling my (IMAGINARY) not at all GREEN, numbers-matched, big block '67 Vette ANYHOW! :sneaky)

 

[Virgorising]

Now I have new interest in varying heating oils. so i am delving. I knew our #6 was sludge and filthy, but also know what replacing our entire heating plant might cost....millions. Not sure, but I think upgrading is not an option.

Our existing plant cost close to a million. I delved.

But, it seems, switching to far cleaner #2, is even more expensive
....but STEAM does away with the need for giant boilers and the tank and is cheaper. Sorry, I smell a rat and downsides re this steam.

What are the cleaner heating fuel options?
Natural gas, #2 heating oil or ConEdison steam.
A building owner can decide to burn only #2 heating
oil, only natural gas, or a combination. ConEdison
steam eliminates the need for a boiler or oil tank.
#2 heating oil is 10-30% more expensive than #6
oil, and natural gas is cheaper than #6 oil.

As world energy costs rise, not to mention what being stuck in fossils fuels is wreaking......ALL this stuff becomes necessary to learn about and deal with.

http://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/11719_NYC-Heating-Oil-FAQ.pdf

I am going to ask Jimmy----super smart he is---so now sure he and the family have considered steam--what this would cost and what would be involved, and what the result would be.

This building narrows as it rises....forget all the terraces starting on 14, so it was clear way back solar panels would be out of the question. Too bad we can't get little solar panels for our computers if we have say, South facing windows. lol

 

[Virgorising]

Please let me express heartfelt thanks to everyone who posted in this thread....and helped me come to see this in objective perspective and with the accurate details I always need!!!:wub:

It was HUGE.:thumbsup:

 

[Midwayman]

Next, I love my city despite its metamorphosis, one, alas, in concert with the rest of the world. And, I love my building.

Next, learning to be green is more necessary now than ever before. Not just to save money, but for the collective.

So....this ain about throwing the baby out; this is about addressing what is muddying the bath water and evolving improvements to that.

Just saying that worrying about a leaky faucet when you have a raging firehose of a leak elsewhere isn't the more productive use of time and money. The amount of oil makes more sense now that I know you're talking about a huge building, but LCD power savings is small potatoes.

 

[Virgorising]

Just saying that worrying about a leaky faucet when you have a raging firehose of a leak elsewhere isn't the more productive use of time and money. The amount of oil makes more sense now that I know you're talking about a huge building, but LCD power savings is small potatoes.

I FEEL U! I feel yr version of perspective generated pragmatism. I DO. But, compared to many in Manhattan, my building is not huge. Truly, it is not. Some residential buildings here are three times as big. More, even.

But right this second I am in SHOCK....forget, given this thread, embarrassed. I return home from meeting earlier, lobby attendant, all smiles says I have big package in package room.

He gets it and brings it out. I see right away wut it is....I am gob smacked and dumbstruck; he takes it into the elevator and says, 'Get IN, let's GO!" GUESS WHAT IT IS? OMG, My BF knows I am ADVERSE to anyone buying me expensive anything!!!!! OK.....in this box I am not opening, is Some Samsung, 40" TV, OK?

From where he luvs to buy his toys: local famous vendor, B&H on 34 St. Not even Tiger or Newegg or places normal people shop at online. Seriously? Chocolate dipped strawberries my kinda Valentine's Day gift....not this!!!!D:

I just learned right here I do NOT NEED this! He broke my RULE!!
I sent him an angry text. He replied with A GRINNING SELFIE.

I did not even do IXquick search on the model.

I need to get calm and clear on this. I am not opening this thing.

PS< OK this model is Samsung UN40EH530.

I can hear my old LCD TV weeping. I told it not to worry.

This is SO wrong on so many levels.:|

 

[Virgorising]

Late addenda:

First, for me, it REALLY IS the thought that counts. I never felt OK accepting expensive gifts and I NEVER HAVE. So, now that he gets that....AGAIN, we are on the same page, and he has finally agreed, SUNDAY.....together, we will return this Samsung thing to whence it came. And, I checked, so good I did not open the box! Cause they have a policy, any TV above 37" NO RETURNS IF THE BOX IS OPEN.

But, that he did this....will nourish me every second forever.

Next, in response to I need not have bought my seriously cool new energy efficient fridge (forget it has glass shelves and is dead silent and FABULOUS)---cause it don make a difference on energy bill. SO WRONG!

I am putting up screenie of part of my Con(man) Ed bill......pls see this last month's bar graphs I put in red. Even with new rate hike, as per all the bills since getting new fridge---the only change I have made, the POST NEW FRIDGE bills are all truly lower than for same time last year!:thumbsup: This month it's between a quarter and a third lower than last year!

I might even get a more energy efficient A/C unit.....cause I use 13K BTU unit.