Would this have been a good shoot?

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umbrella39

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2ae_1364236524

Sorry if repost. Just saw this a life leak. Road rage guy pulls over kids in truck, throws first punch, kid and buddy gets out pounds the guy for a couple seconds, looks like they are retreating, wife gets out hand him a gun...

Had he started shooting would it be justified? Was his life in danger? Can you just start fights and when you start getting your ass handed to you, fair or otherwise start shooting? I think he made the right choice not to shoot here. I carry and I don't let my emotions get the best of me and never, ever start altercations with people on the road. Mine and someone else's life isn't worth it. Ever. But to me it seems this guy grows a bigger set when he carries/or his old lady carries and thinks he can start shit and finish it with a gun if need be. Not the right attitude to be driving around with imho.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
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Going to get nailed with all kinds of felonies, aggrivated battery with a deadly weapon, etc. The wife will as well.

A good shoot would have been the other guys in the car shoot him as he was aggressively approaching the vehicle. Once his hand entered the vehicle and/or attempted to remove the people in their occupied vehicle, the occupants were OK to shoot. Their reaction with force to him attempting to remove them from occupied vehicle was appropriate and justified.

Notice they stopped when he was no longer a threat and on the ground. This is an example of justified force.
 
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umbrella39

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,126
126
MomentsofSanity said:
Was coming to post this video only the question I would have is should this person retain his right to be able to possess a firearm?

Edit. Man and his wife now charged with multiple firearm related offences.

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/...s-Fired-199787001.html?mobile=yes&device=ipad
Click to expand...

I have my sound way down and didn't hear it discharge? So he did shoot. Fortunately they HAVE A VIDEO or it would just be his and her word against the kids/thugs that beat him up so bad. Too bad we don't always have a video.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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AHamick

AHamick

Senior member
Nov 3, 2008
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Assault with a firearm no matter where you are. The teens displayed restraint once the man was on the ground then they retreated. Had the man shot it would be murder/battery with a firearm.

He went far enough to point it at the teens when he was in no danger. Easily agg assault with a firearm.

He belongs in jail and have his guns stripped from him
 
lotus503

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
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umbrella39 said:
I have my sound way down and didn't hear it discharge? So he did shoot. Fortunately they HAVE A VIDEO or it would just be his and her word against the kids/thugs that beat him up so bad. Too bad we don't always have a video.
Click to expand...

doesn't look like he shot at them just pointed it after they retreated back to the car.

Guy got the ass whipping he deserved for sure. had the wife comes out 3 seconds earlier and shot one of them what then?
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,426
7,485
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  1. He followed them and instigated violence. This is recorded.
  2. They did not mount him, nor continue their assault.
  3. Killing them would have been justified if they continued, but the recording would have proven him culpable. I'm not sure how all that could legally play out.
My own personal option - he started violence, they met him with seemingly equal force. Ergo the guy appears to have gotten exactly what he deserved. I'm happy to see that they showed restraint once they had clear superiority. Whether that was due to the gun being taken out or not... I do not know.

Once he had the gun he moved towards them - showed aggression. That is clearly wrong. If he had acted on that then he should be guilty of murder.

In the case of a shooting, whether or not I support one side or the other depends on split second decisions made by both parties. We thankfully have a video in this case to make such determinations clearer than they often are. Imagine if he did fire the weapon, but there wasn't a video. I'd have to rely on forensic evidence of where each person was at the time the gun was used to hopefully sort out the fatal moment.

Distance, position, and aggression are the key factors I'd want to use to determine it. Weapons and injuries are also important to me.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
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lotus503 said:
doesn't look like he shot at them just pointed it after they retreated back to the car.

Guy got the ass whipping he deserved for sure. had the wife comes out 3 seconds earlier and shot one of them what then?
Click to expand...

Depends on state and their laws on defense of 3rd party.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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Theb

Theb

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,533
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Good thing there was a recording. I imagine there would've been two very different stories without it.

Right after I got my license I accidentally cut someone off. He got out at the next light and punched my driver side window. It looked like it hurt.
 
SpatiallyAware

SpatiallyAware

Lifer
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
3
0
spidey07 said:
Going to get nailed with all kinds of felonies, aggrivated battery with a deadly weapon, etc. The wife will as well.

A good shoot would have been the other guys in the car shoot him as he was aggressively approaching the vehicle. Once his hand entered the vehicle and/or attempted to remove the people in their occupied vehicle, the occupants were OK to shoot. Their reaction with force to him attempting to remove them from occupied vehicle was appropriate and justified.

Notice they stopped when he was no longer a threat and on the ground. This is an example of justified force.
Click to expand...


Yup, agree with all of this.
 
Fern

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
umbrella39 said:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2ae_1364236524

Sorry if repost. Just saw this a life leak. Road rage guy pulls over kids in truck, throws first punch, kid and buddy gets out pounds the guy for a couple seconds, looks like they are retreating, wife gets out hand him a gun...

Had he started shooting would it be justified?
Click to expand...

No, not from what I can tell.

umbrella39 said:
Was his life in danger?
Click to expand...

No, not IMO.

umbrella39 said:
Can you just start fights and when you start getting your ass handed to you, fair or otherwise start shooting?
Click to expand...

No, not even in a SYG state.

This guy is in big trouble and deserves to be.

Fern
 
Lithium381

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
the fact that he started it is a big point, but had he been the victim i would be 100% okay with it until the threat was GONE. If they retreated fine. .
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,076
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spidey07 said:
Going to get nailed with all kinds of felonies, aggrivated battery with a deadly weapon, etc. The wife will as well.

A good shoot would have been the other guys in the car shoot him as he was aggressively approaching the vehicle. Once his hand entered the vehicle and/or attempted to remove the people in their occupied vehicle, the occupants were OK to shoot. Their reaction with force to him attempting to remove them from occupied vehicle was appropriate and justified.

Notice they stopped when he was no longer a threat and on the ground. This is an example of justified force.
Click to expand...

Theoretically, they two kids get out of the car after he through that punch, and both start wailing away on him. He then pulls the gun he had on him (rather than his wife handing it to him), and he shoots? Good shoot yet?
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,426
7,485
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TheVrolok said:
Theoretically, they two kids get out of the car after he through that punch, and both start wailing away on him. He then pulls the gun he had on him (rather than his wife handing it to him), and he shoots? Good shoot yet?
Click to expand...

If he could not retreat, he was restrained in some way, and was being injured - then yes.

I'd still want the law to nail him for starting a violent altercation that turned fatal.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
TheVrolok said:
Theoretically, they two kids get out of the car after he through that punch, and both start wailing away on him. He then pulls the gun he had on him (rather than his wife handing it to him), and he shoots? Good shoot yet?
Click to expand...

No as he's initial aggressor, at that point he has a duty to retreat from any force used against him. The argument could be made he committed felony agg battery and is not allowed to use justified force. Occupied vehicles get special treatment in many/most states as they are treated like your home and fall under castle doctrine.

He could only use deadly force if it was his last and only option. What state is this in? That plays a big part as well.
 
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sourn

Senior member
Dec 26, 2012
577
1
0
I agree with a lot of the others.

Guy starts fight, boys simply beat him till he falls and then go to leave. That's when the wife hands him the gun and he points it at them. The only situation like this were it might be considered justified is if the kids kept beating him while he was on the ground and his wife took the shot.
 
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