Would this be a PSU problem?

[rootaxs]

My old AMD x2, powered by an equally old Antec 300w PSU has been randomly shutting down. Sometimes it wouldn't for an entire day, other times it would do so 3-5 times in a row. On occasion it would make a scary loud (almost grinding?) noise before it eventually shuts down. This lead me to looking at the northbridge fan which does make a noise now and then, but even after replacing that it still shuts down randomly.

I've removed/unplugged and replaced nearly all the components except the CPU, Motherboard and PSU.

Here's an odd thing, too, when it shuts down i can't turn it back on without first doing this sequence:

- Unplug the power cable to the PSU
- Touching the three prongs on the PSU together using my fingers (a couple seconds later you'd hear what sounds like caps discharging, or what my photography flashes/strobes sounds like between recharges)
- Plugging the cable back to the PSU
- Turning it on with the power button

Would that be a symptom of a dying PSU? I'm really not keen on purchasing any more parts until i'm fairly certain of the issue.

Other things to note, while taking IR temp reads on CPU, NB, Memory and random parts of the Mobo, everything is in the 37 - 48C range, even when "stressing". All fans are running as they should be then *snap* the whole thing turns off.

Any ideas?

Thank you, all.

 

[Maverick6969]

It could be a dying power supply but first I would recommend removing the heatsink and applying some fresh thermal compound. Random system shutdowns are often caused by overheating issues. If after this you still have the problem, then remove the power supply and take it to a computer shop in your area for them to test it. You can buy one from New Egg for roughly $20-$25.

 

[mvbighead]

If you're looking for a PSU, here you go...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-17371034-L02C

EMCKCJH27

Also, any bulging caps on the motherboard?

As for getting a PSU tested... well, if it is powering your system for days at a time, I strongly doubt a shop is going to tell you in 15 minutes that you have problems. Maybe, but I would start with a new, healthy PSU. If that doesn't work... find a suitable board to replace your current one. I would guess something like this given the age of your system:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-226-_-Product

 

[Maverick6969]

As for getting a PSU tested... well, if it is powering your system for days at a time, I strongly doubt a shop is going to tell you in 15 minutes that you have problems.

You strongly dobut? Based on what experience? I've worked at some PC shops where customers brought in suspected malfunctioning power supplies. We used multivoltage meters to test the connectors on each of the leads - it's a very simple thing to test. Stores like Microcenter will do this for a small fee ($20). Sort of pointless since you buy a power supply tester or a multivoltage meter for roughly $20

 

[mvbighead]

If it works for him one minute, and then flat out dies an hour later, there is a possibility it could test fine.

And a powersupply that is likely in excess of 4-5 years old is due for replacement, whether it is bad or not. Since it sounds like a likely culprit, it would make sense to get a new one to take care of either scenario (bad/old).

I've worked in a PC shop for several years as well. Sure, all that stuff can tell you a number of things, but the reality is that sporadic issues are often difficult to diagnose. What looks fine one minute may not be the next.

 

[Slugbait]

- Touching the three prongs on the PSU together using my fingers (a couple seconds later you'd hear what sounds like caps discharging, or what my photography flashes/strobes sounds like between recharges)

This indicates to me that it's a grounding issue. It's possible that your cable is worn and simply needs to be replaced.

The Earthwatts 430D that mvbighead linked to is a Delta unit, they make decent PSUs. But wait...you supply your own cord (see previous paragraph). No sleeving. Just one 6-pin connector. Also, $45 is a bit expensive for a 430W, and if you did a massive upgrade in the future you might not be able to re-use this PSU.

Personally, I'd spend an extra $5 for a 520W SeaSonic S12II-based unit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371047. It has two 6+2-pin connectors, so it would handle pretty much any videocard you might get for a future upgrade.

 

[mvbighead]

This indicates to me that it's a grounding issue. It's possible that your cable is worn and simply needs to be replaced.

The Earthwatts 430D that mvbighead linked to is a Delta unit, they make decent PSUs. But wait...you supply your own cord (see previous paragraph). No sleeving. Just one 6-pin connector. Also, $45 is a bit expensive for a 430W, and if you did a massive upgrade in the future you might not be able to re-use this PSU.

Personally, I'd spend an extra $5 for a 520W SeaSonic S12II-based unit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371047. It has two 6+2-pin connectors, so it would handle pretty much any videocard you might get for a future upgrade.

I'd agree with that. I was simply trying to find something better than the 30-40 dollar offerings that were mostly basic PSUs.

 

[BoomerD]

If you're looking for a PSU, here you go...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-17371034-L02C

EMCKCJH27

Also, any bulging caps on the motherboard?

As for getting a PSU tested... well, if it is powering your system for days at a time, I strongly doubt a shop is going to tell you in 15 minutes that you have problems. Maybe, but I would start with a new, healthy PSU. If that doesn't work... find a suitable board to replace your current one. I would guess something like this given the age of your system:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-226-_-Product

Here's another very good deal on a quality PSU for only a pittance:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&SID=u00000687
$24.99 after rebate...

 

[mfenn]

Here's another very good deal on a quality PSU for only a pittance:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&SID=u00000687
$24.99 after rebate...

:thumbsup: It's a CWT which is not in the same league as Seasonic, but it will do just fine for the OP's load.

 

[BoomerD]

:thumbsup: It's a CWT which is not in the same league as Seasonic, but it will do just fine for the OP's load.

Agreed. Plus, being a Corsair, it's backed by excellent customer service.

 

[rootaxs]

Guys, thank you so much for the help, input and links.

I got a PS from Microcenter (two, actually, a Thermaltake and a generic one just to be safe)... sadly the new PSU's did not solve the problem. The computer still shuts down at random times, even when just sitting idly with no other apps open.

I also tried swapping out the power cable and blasting my garage fan onto the whole thing (in case it was a cooling issue, which i knew was not, given the temp readings). As a last resort i also seated/unseated the CPU heatsink/fan and redid the thermal paste -- all to no avail.

Any other ideas on what the issue could be? Dying motherboard perhaps? I sure hope not, it's about 5-6 y.o. and i'd be lucky to find an equal replacement these days. I'm concerned because i tried moving the HDD from this system onto my primary machine and Windows 7 totally freaked out with looping reboots and failed system recovery. (For kicks, i put my HDD on this broken machine and it did the same, but put the HDD's back to where they belong and all is well again) -- so unless it's an exact mobo replacement, it seems my only other option would be to start from scratch, much to my wife's dismay.

 

[mvbighead]

What board do you have?

 

[avatar82]

i think windows is freaking out when you move the hard drives because the motherboards use differrent ide/sata drivers and windows is dumb and does not load a generic driver if a proper one (for the old motherboard) is installed even though it could tell its in a new motherboard if it just looked. I mean it handles video, network and sound card changes just fine. /rant

intel, amd, jbmicron, highpoint, marvell and silicon image all have thier own drivers, if installed in windows, these drivers won't work on other controllers. i wish they all just used generic.

if you move the hard drive to another computer you should be able to reinstall windows over itself to get back to genaric ide drivers. hypotheticly speaking of coarse.

sorry i can't help with shut-down issue, but 6 years is a good lifespan for a system, and building a new system is fun!

 

[sm625]

In my experience I have found three main failure points after the faulty psu and high temperatures possibilities have been eliminated:

1. Bad/intermittent HDD IDE or power cables. If these go then the HDD loses power which usually causes a crash. But a shutdown is not out of the question.

2.The AGP/pciE connector. The video card needs to be taken out and the connector totally cleaned out. This needs to be done once every few years. I dont know how it does it, but dust somehow gets in there and ruins the connection.

3. Leaking electrolytic caps.

 

[Slugbait]

I got a PS from Microcenter (two, actually, a Thermaltake and a generic one just to be safe)... sadly the new PSU's did not solve the problem. The computer still shuts down at random times, even when just sitting idly with no other apps open.

Especially because of your second bulletpoint, I'm still leaning toward a grounding issue...but now that you've swapped out both the unit and the cable, I'm suspecting one of two things:
a) your outlet
b) your components are touching something they shouldn't be touching

Try plugging in somewhere else and see if it repros, and/or test the grounding of the outlet.

There is a possibility something came loose or unscrewed inside the case. For example, lots of people have had an issue like this because the mobo was directly touching the tray or something. You might consider tearing the whole thing down and verify tight standoffs, etc.

 

[mfenn]

You could also try increasing the CPU and RAM voltage a bit and seeing if that makes the problem go away. Sometimes old components need a bit of a voltage boost. Don't go crazy on the voltages though!

 

[rootaxs]

^ i tried that, it was at 1.38 and bumped up to 1.45. Still no go

However...

3. Leaking electrolytic caps.

Also, any bulging caps on the motherboard?

These guys got it right, i believe. I never noticed it before, but after totally dismantling the system and taking a closer look at everything out in the open i noticed these four maroon caps with somewhat bulging tops, and one (fourth from the right) has a rusty spot at the top (leak?). I didn't see them that well at first as these are partially hidden under the heatsink.

I'm not handy enough to fix this type of issue, so off to Microcenter i went and got new parts altogether... an i3/mobo/4gb mem and an SSD boot drive to, well, boot! For under $300, everything is working like it should again and my wife is extremely happy she's back in business.

Everyone, thank you again for all the great ideas and suggestions! You've all been great help.



p.s. The board is an MSI K8N Neo-4 Platinum v1. Apparently these boards are known for bad caps, i'm lucky it lasted this long--6 years!

 

[mfenn]

Oh yeah, boards of that vintage generally had counterfeit caps, so I'm not surprised. I'm glad you were able to get something new that your wife likes for so little!