would there have been android without iphone?

[theeedude]

From Google's point of view? I disagree.

Android provides a *wealth* of data gathering opportunities for Google. While it is true that a manufacturer can change the default search/maps/mail clients away from Google's, lets be serious...they don't, not in any successful form. So while there's nothing stopping Apple from switching to Bing search or Mapquest maps, Google can rest assured that their platform will use Google services.

Its not about what apps you can run, open/close etc - its about the services you use on the phone.

How is that different from what I am saying? There are google apps that access google services. Google can gather data from those apps. The question is whether users will be able to install those apps at will, or if Apple will have the last say. Google decided they didn't trust Apple enough, to leave their business hostage to Apple's discretion. Hence they needed their own platform where noone will have that veto power over their business model.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Google bought and started development on Android while the iPhone was in development, how could they make that decision before the app store existed?

 

[TheStu]

How is that different from what I am saying? There are google apps that access google services. Google can gather data from those apps. The question is whether users will be able to install those apps at will, or if Apple will have the last say. Google decided they didn't trust Apple enough, to leave their business hostage to Apple's discretion. Hence they needed their own platform where noone will have that veto power over their business model.

You keep only blaming Apple. Yes, the thread is about Android's existence vis a vis the iPhone, but at the same time, we have already established that Android was coming regardless. So, isn't it more fair to say that 'Google didn't trust Apple, and Microsoft, and RIM, and Nokia, et al enough to leave their business hostage to Apple's and Microsoft's and RIM's and Nokia's and everyone else's discretion?

 

[theeedude]

See, saying stuff like that makes it seem like Android is the great white knight here to save us from the evil Apple (always read in these circumstances as Steve Jobs) oppressors. And it simply isn't true. No one can say for sure what would have happened if Apple hadn't decided to review all apps before they were put onto the store. I would imagine that we would have an App Store much more similar to the Market, both in good and bad.

We would have even more choices than we have today, but how many more fart apps would we have, how many copyright infringing ringtone apps would we have? How many different payment methods would we have?

There are benefits to the Apple App Store, my card is on file with them, I know that I can trust them, I know that the apps I am downloading are (almost certainly) not going to take my personal information and use it maliciously, I know that it isn't going to crash my phone, I have a great deal of peace of mind.

I am not saying that all Android apps are going to take my money, punch me in the face, break my phone and then kick my dog. I am not even saying that any of them will (though those ringtone apps might), all i am saying is that with the App Store, I know that they won't.

I think you missed the point entirely. It's not about Apple being good or evil, it's about Apple having control over approving Google's apps and services on iPhone, and thus having veto power over Google's business initiatives. No company is going to leave it's business hostage to another company's whim, if they can do something about it. And Google can. Hence the Android.
You can argue that Apple approving apps is good or bad for users, but from Google's point of view, that is giving Apple way too much power.

 

[Deeko]

How is that different from what I am saying? There are google apps that access google services. Google can gather data from those apps. The question is whether users will be able to install those apps at will, or if Apple will have the last say. Google decided they didn't trust Apple enough, to leave their business hostage to Apple's discretion. Hence they needed their own platform where noone will have that veto power over their business model.

Because it has nothing to do with Apple's closed system or their prevention of users from using certain apps. It has nothing to do with Apple at all. Its the same with WinMo, Blackberry, or anything. Google wants you to use Google Search, they don't care if you can side load Farmville.

 

[theeedude]

You keep only blaming Apple. Yes, the thread is about Android's existence vis a vis the iPhone, but at the same time, we have already established that Android was coming regardless. So, isn't it more fair to say that 'Google didn't trust Apple, and Microsoft, and RIM, and Nokia, et al enough to leave their business hostage to Apple's and Microsoft's and RIM's and Nokia's and everyone else's discretion?

Sure, it is fair to say that. There was no open phone platform where noone else would have veto power over what Google apps and services the user installed. So they created one.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Sure, it is fair to say that. There was no open phone platform where noone else would have veto power over what Google apps and services the user installed. So they created one.

Respectfully, you need to brush up on phone OS history and the timeline of Google's purchase of Android, Apple's iPhone development, and the timeline of Apple and Google app stores.

Wikipedia has it all mapped out pretty clearly.

 

[tatteredpotato]

...I know that the apps I am downloading are (almost certainly) not going to take my personal information and use it maliciously, I know that it isn't going to crash my phone, I have a great deal of peace of mind.

I am not saying that all Android apps are going to take my money, punch me in the face, break my phone and then kick my dog. I am not even saying that any of them will (though those ringtone apps might), all i am saying is that with the App Store, I know that they won't.

Some kid got an iPhone "flashlight" app approved that would allow you to tether... Apple doesn't screen apps that closely.

 

[sciwizam]

Some kid got an iPhone "flashlight" app approved that would allow you to tether... Apple doesn't screen apps that closely.

Also, Apple didn't find out about this tethering capability based on it's own investigation. That kid made a youtube video of how to enable that extra feature, then Apple did its thing.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Also, Apple didn't find out about this tethering capability based on it's own investigation. That kid made a youtube video of how to enable that extra feature, then Apple did its thing.

When Giz and Engadget start writing stories about it then Apple took it down. Personally I think this is why it's a good thing Android puts the permissions warnings when I download an App... Then I really know what the app is accessing as opposed to taking Apples word for it.

Back on topic though, the iPhone influenced Android heavily, but it didn't "birth" it per se.