Would there be any legal issues if a company massively sandbagged thier figures?

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
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I'm not talking about just a little bit, but something ludicrously low to the point where nobody would believe it.

An example:
If Chevy released the Blue Devil Corvette and claimed it made 200HP, had a 0-60 time of 10 seconds, and a top speed of 80MPH. And would that drive insurance adjusters nuts? :D
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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It's still a 2 seater that costs over $40,000(double that for the Blue Devil?). Sandbagging performance numbers won't hide that.
 

shocksyde

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2001
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I have a question: Why the hell would they?

Let's say your hypothetical situation occurs. You see a commercial and they go thru all that junk and then at the end say, "All for $50,000!"

Nobody would buy one.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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FWIW, the only purposeful sandbagging that I've seen was when VW bumped up the boost in the 1.8T engines from 150HP to 180HP. The upscale Audi was still only pushing 150HP.

They didn't want to one-up their luxury line so they advertised as 150HP, even though dyno tests clearly stated otherwise.

 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Insurance companies aren't that stupid.

There wouldn't be any legal issues from under-rating horsepower though. It was quite common in the 1960's and early 1970's.

For example, the Corvette L-71 and L-89 engines were rated at 435 hp, while the L-88 was rated at 430 HP. Walk up to the parts counter at your local Chevy dealership though and buy the "heavy duty" carb and headers for the L-88 and people were dyno-ing 550+. The L-71 and the L-89 were mean street engines, but the L-88 was a very thinly disguised race engine. Chevrolet intentionally under-rated it to make it appealing only to privateer racers who knew what the engine's real potential was.

Ford did something similar with the Super CobraJet engines in the Mustang, a 429 CI engine rated at 375 hp that would dyno in the area of 450 hp without any modification.

ZV
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
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Wouldn't do any good. All the insurers would have to do is test a sample Vette to get the true HP. Run the 1/4 mile, take the MPH, use the formula that uses MPH and curb weight to determine HP. And they'd figure their rates from there.
Or, they could just read a couple of magazines that did the testing and get the power figures that way.
 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
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I still say someone would buy it for their kid, their kid would get into an accident and they would sue the maker for not letting them know it was THAT powerful.
 

cardiac

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Insurance companies aren't that stupid.

There wouldn't be any legal issues from under-rating horsepower though. It was quite common in the 1960's and early 1970's.

For example, the Corvette L-71 and L-89 engines were rated at 435 hp, while the L-88 was rated at 430 HP. Walk up to the parts counter at your local Chevy dealership though and buy the "heavy duty" carb and headers for the L-88 and people were dyno-ing 550+. The L-71 and the L-89 were mean street engines, but the L-88 was a very thinly disguised race engine. Chevrolet intentionally under-rated it to make it appealing only to privateer racers who knew what the engine's real potential was.

Ford did something similar with the Super CobraJet engines in the Mustang, a 429 CI engine rated at 375 hp that would dyno in the area of 450 hp without any modification.

ZV

They weren't really under-rating.... Chevy did this with the L-88 like you said, and also with the LS-6/LS-7 (454) in the Chevelle, and the ZL-1(427) Camaros. They would just take the dyno figures from, oh, say 4600 rpm. They didn't tell you that peak HP was made at 5400 rpm :)
I remember reading a couple of the hot rod mags back then and they had a bunch of fun with those figures.....

Bob
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
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All they have to do is restrict power in the tune to the 200 HP. Then insurance companies can't claim it's a 400 HP car and rape you because it is indeed only putting out 200 HP. And when you flash it to get your 400 HP you are fully aware that you are getting more power and can't claim the manufacturer lied.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
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You mean like the 325HP Ram air Firebird vs. the 360HP Ram air GTO? They put a tab to keep the secondaries from opening all the way on the Firebird to comply with the 10LB/HP GM corporate mandate of the day.
 

dwcal

Senior member
Jul 21, 2004
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I wouldn't call it massive sandbagging, but in Japan the automakers have a gentlemen's agreement to limit power to 276hp. The Skyline GT-R probably had well over 300, but they still advertised 276.
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: dwcal
I wouldn't call it massive sandbagging, but in Japan the automakers have a gentlemen's agreement to limit power to 276hp. The Skyline GT-R probably had well over 300, but they still advertised 276.

I was about to just say that.. this was in the last 80 early 90's All cars can only have 276hp coming out of japan cars like Q45 was rated at 276hp but indeed was putting out 300-315. Skyline's and a whole lot of other cars i'm a nissan buff so i only know that much. But i'm sure anything that has 276hp can be 300+ hp