Would the US be better off replacing Obamacare with some form of universal healthcare?

[Jhhnn]

Democrats (politicians) don't want universal health care either. Oh, I know they say they do, but that simply isn't the truth either, otherwise the ACA would have been exactly that.

Had the medicaid expansion been implemented everywhere & had Repubs fully funded the program we would be very close to universal coverage. We'd just be there via a different route. There's also no reason that a govt option can't be added to ease the transition to more of a European type system.

Tell you what... If you want universal health care, then you need to first rally around the need for REAL campaign finance reform. Only then does single payer or any real health care reform stand a chance. If people can't grasp the need for campaign finance reform first.... Then we are doomed to continue the same circle jerk.

Repubs won't even accept transparency wrt political spending & exploit a variety of mechanisms to get around campaign finance regulations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...7cfd9a-719b-11e3-9389-09ef9944065e_story.html

Which all comes back around to progressive taxes. We can either raise taxes at the top to provide for the general welfare or we can keep them low so that the mega rich can spend to warp democracy to their advantage.

 

[sdifox]

These discussions are interesting on some level but it's important to remember that the country is going broke. Spending is out of control and there is no political will to restrain it. You want some form of universal health care? Let whatever party has the balls to do it, do it. It can't be sustained. Just as SS, Medicare, government pensions, infrastructure maintenance and everything else desired by whomever desires it can't be implemented or sustained. The unfunded liabilities this nation has assumed are a ticking time bomb.

Yeah, let's all be really healthy before the nation succumbs to anarchy. The healthiest and the most cunning will survive.

We have a nation populated by far too many that want far too much. We have politicians who get elected by promising to be Santa Claus all day, every day and to everyone. It cannot go on. The bag of tricks is empty.

The first person who chimes in that the rich can cover all this shit will prove themselves to be the idiot that they are.

Wake up and start thinking with reality being the primary motivator. You want bread and circuses and you're ignoring that the Big Top Tent is on fire. The elephants, the donkeys and all the other circus animals have their escape plans finely honed. Getting these assholes out of office is our only hope.

But in the midst of all this you want somebody else to pay for your healthcare. What a bunch of dopes.

Except your healthcare expenditure is already sky high and you get shit results.

 

[zzyzxroad]

I think the epidemic of persecution drug abuse may be the single greatest threat to our republic.

It's a major problem for sure but not relivant to my post. I though the discussion was the cost of health care in the US?

 

[bshole]

Keep in mind, EVERYTHING the American government runs is horribly ineffective and hideously overpriced. One of the last things my grandfather told me was that one way or another Canada gets 4 out of every 7 dollars from him.
If WE tried taking care of people we'd have to spend 8 out of every 7 dollars. Now for normal people that doesn't make sense, but you better believe Democrats would try to find some way to sell that bullshit to voters.
We cant do it. Its not an issue of should or would or when or how, we simply cannot make government healthcare work. If you really need proof, look at the V.A.
Now imagine someone like The Donald trying to put together an even bigger, more complex system and ask yourself just how smooth it would run.

Are you ignoring objective data that proves that government provided healthcare is less expensive? Check out what socialist countries pay for their healthcare and compare it to America.

 

[sdifox]

Are you ignoring objective data that proves that government provided healthcare is less expensive? Check out what socialist countries pay for their healthcare and compare it to America.

You are short one long haired bespectacled internet guru to make this credible.

 

[agent00f]

Except your healthcare expenditure is already sky high and you get shit results.

Boomerang is probably on medicare, complaining about government expenditure on his sorry ass.

Degenerates will argue anything.

 

[sdifox]

Boomerang is probably on medicare, complaining about government expenditure on his sorry ass.

Degenerates will argue anything.

Medicare is not a socialised program

 

[werepossum]

You are short one long haired bespectacled internet guru to make this credible.

+1

He's right though. The reason that most nations have socialized medicine and we don't is that we could afford not to have it and they couldn't. It's not something that we can now afford, not only because we've become such a debtor nation but also because the potential cost of quality health is so high. It's one thing to have a doctor prescribe a $200 X-Ray for a mildly twisted to catch the 1% with broken bones, but quite another when it's a $2,000 MRI. I don't think you can fix that except with a two-tiered health care system where a minimum acceptable level of health care is available to everyone. It's not just defensive medicine, it's also caused by our entitlement mentality. We all feel entitled to the best possible health care. There's no way we can all get the best possible health care, but if we're smart, we can all get good enough health care, and those with the means can seek out that last 5% from for-profit providers.

The other major problem with private medicine is that it's increasingly dividing us into haves and have-nots. I don't have a problem with that in general, such as when some people have Porsches and I don't. But we're increasingly being divided into high income and low income, and low income people often don't have access to a minimum acceptable level of health care. There's no easy fix for that since it is caused by automation, off-shoring, immigration, and poorer work ethic together. But we need to mitigate it as best we can. Labor (particularly unskilled or semi-skilled labor) is being increasingly devalued, and the fewer people who feel well-served by our system, the more people who are inclined to let it all burn and hope they'll be luckier the next time around.

 

[agent00f]

+1

He's right though. The reason that most nations have socialized medicine and we don't is that we could afford not to have it and they couldn't. It's not something that we can now afford, not only because we've become such a debtor nation but also because the potential cost of quality health is so high. It's one thing to have a doctor prescribe a $200 X-Ray for a mildly twisted to catch the 1% with broken bones, but quite another when it's a $2,000 MRI. I don't think you can fix that except with a two-tiered health care system where a minimum acceptable level of health care is available to everyone. It's not just defensive medicine, it's also caused by our entitlement mentality. We all feel entitled to the best possible health care. There's no way we can all get the best possible health care, but if we're smart, we can all get good enough health care, and those with the means can seek out that last 5% from for-profit providers.

The other major problem with private medicine is that it's increasingly dividing us into haves and have-nots. I don't have a problem with that in general, such as when some people have Porsches and I don't. But we're increasingly being divided into high income and low income, and low income people often don't have access to a minimum acceptable level of health care. There's no easy fix for that since it is caused by automation, off-shoring, immigration, and poorer work ethic together. But we need to mitigate it as best we can. Labor (particularly unskilled or semi-skilled labor) is being increasingly devalued, and the fewer people who feel well-served by our system, the more people who are inclined to let it all burn and hope they'll be luckier the next time around.

Trumpsters aren't the poor ones, they just don't want a meritocracy where brown people as lowly educated compete for their jobs. Or even worse, better qualified brown folks squeezing them out altogether.

Regrettably after civil rights when the democrats stabbed them in the back, the racists no longer had a national platform to push their agenda, which is where the GOP came in.

It's all perfectly understandable and in both groups' rational self-interest. For example, healthcare profits are a GOP elite agenda, so the rank and file base just parrot the lines in exchange for muslim bans and such.

 

[WackyDan]

Had the medicaid expansion been implemented everywhere & had Repubs fully funded the program we would be very close to universal coverage. We'd just be there via a different route. There's also no reason that a govt option can't be added to ease the transition to more of a European type system.



Repubs won't even accept transparency wrt political spending & exploit a variety of mechanisms to get around campaign finance regulations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...7cfd9a-719b-11e3-9389-09ef9944065e_story.html

Which all comes back around to progressive taxes. We can either raise taxes at the top to provide for the general welfare or we can keep them low so that the mega rich can spend to warp democracy to their advantage.

Bolded. Stop the blame by party bullshit. The democrats are equally corrupt in regard to political spending and their own less than ethical practices. Until people are able to switch their political polarity off and stop playing the lesser evil game we will continue the circle jerk.

Point stands... and FYI. Look up McCain/Feingold. Bi-partisan support too. That was campaign finance reform at it's worse. Biggest lie sold to the american people on that topic. There are simply some laws that should not be written by congress and campaign finance is one of them.

 

[pcgeek11]

So to confirm you are good with price controls and the rationing of care. That is a positive first step in the discussion.

I am all in for price controls. That is the most important part of the problem with healthcare. I have said this for years, they are working on the wrong problem for the wrong reasons.

I also have no problem with rationing non-urgent care.

 

[Trudyblammer]

No. you guys need to stick with Obama Care.

 

[pcgeek11]

No. you guys need to stick with Obama Care.

No, We do not need nor want Obamacare. Neither do we want any of those circus plans rolled out in Congress or Senate.

 

[agent00f]

I am all in for price controls. That is the most important part of the problem with healthcare. I have said this for years, they are working on the wrong problem for the wrong reasons.

I also have no problem with rationing non-urgent care.

Too bad the democrats passed your leadership's HC plan.

 

[brandonbull]

Trumpsters aren't the poor ones, they just don't want a meritocracy where brown people as lowly educated compete for their jobs. Or even worse, better qualified brown folks squeezing them out altogether.

Regrettably after civil rights when the democrats stabbed them in the back, the racists no longer had a national platform to push their agenda, which is where the GOP came in.

It's all perfectly understandable and in both groups' rational self-interest. For example, healthcare profits are a GOP elite agenda, so the rank and file base just parrot the lines in exchange for muslim bans and such.

Dang racists!

 

[agent00f]

Dang racists!

Your capitalist-racist party is truly problematic. No real surprise when the birther-magnate was chosen to be its leader.

 

[Jhhnn]

He's right though. The reason that most nations have socialized medicine and we don't is that we could afford not to have it and they couldn't. It's not something that we can now afford, not only because we've become such a debtor nation but also because the potential cost of quality health is so high.

It's because share of national income has shifted radically away from the 75th percentile of tax filers & below to the top 1%, particularly the top .1%. There are lots of things middle America can't afford because of that shift.

 

[Jhhnn]

No, We do not need nor want Obamacare. Neither do we want any of those circus plans rolled out in Congress or Senate.

What do they want? Freedumb! When do they want it? Now!

 

[Jhhnn]

Bolded. Stop the blame by party bullshit. The democrats are equally corrupt in regard to political spending and their own less than ethical practices. Until people are able to switch their political polarity off and stop playing the lesser evil game we will continue the circle jerk.

Point stands... and FYI. Look up McCain/Feingold. Bi-partisan support too. That was campaign finance reform at it's worse. Biggest lie sold to the american people on that topic. There are simply some laws that should not be written by congress and campaign finance is one of them.

So.... they're just as bad, right? You have references for that?