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Would the Last Honest Reporter Please Turn On the Lights?

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
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Blog Post URL

Interested in anyone trying to refute any of this. I only posted the first excerpt below.

An open letter to the local daily paper -- almost every local daily paper in America: I remember reading All the President's Men and thinking: That's journalism. You do what it takes to get the truth and you lay it before the public, because the public has a right to know. This housing crisis didn't come out of nowhere. It was not a vague emanation of the evil Bush administration. It was a direct result of the political decision, back in the late 1990s, to loosen the rules of lending so that home loans would be more accessible to poor people. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were authorized to approve risky loans. What is a risky loan? It's a loan that the recipient is likely not to be able to repay. The goal of this rule change was to help the poor -- which especially would help members of minority groups. But how does it help these people to give them a loan that they can't repay? They get into a house, yes, but when they can't make the payments, they lose the house -- along with their credit rating. They end up worse off than before.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
OSC really needs to just shut up a sing... er, shut up and write fiction.

crap, I'd be happy if he just shut up and crawled into a hole to die.
 

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
Originally posted by: loki8481
OSC really needs to just shut up a sing... er, shut up and write fiction.

crap, I'd be happy if he just shut up and crawled into a hole to die.
You add nothing to the discussion. He makes nothing but valid assertions. You do not deny any them, which leads me to believe that he is correct, and you want him to shut up because he points out the holes in your belief system.

Why am I not surprised that you advocate censorship over honest journalism?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
Originally posted by: loki8481
OSC really needs to just shut up a sing... er, shut up and write fiction.

crap, I'd be happy if he just shut up and crawled into a hole to die.
You add nothing to the discussion. He makes nothing but valid assertions. You do not deny any them, which leads me to believe that he is correct, and you want him to shut up because he points out the holes in your belief system.

Why am I not surprised that you advocate censorship over honest journalism?
I actually agree with him in this limited situation, but it doesn't change the fact that OSC is a bigoted douchebag and that his colossal douchebaggery taints anything that comes out of his head.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
We already know that legislation was the seed, but it was fertilized and watered by lots of other people.

The main reasons the republican party is ill, btw, is that it continues to fux0r our future through ungodly deficit spending and also through compromising the country's position in the world by its incompetent foreign policy.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,352
25,077
136
In your excerpt OSC is attempting to pull the same crap that the right has been pulling since the beginning of the mortgage crisis. Only a small percentage of the foreclosures we've been seeing are related to federal guidelines pushing fannie and freddie to expand their loan portfolios to less affluent borrowers. The crisis would have happened with or without this.

On another note, OSC is a bigoted douchebag. I wish he would not only stop blogging, but I hope he stops writing fiction too. Ender's game was a pretty good book, but everything else he's ever written was total shit.
 

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
Originally posted by: eskimospy
In your excerpt OSC is attempting to pull the same crap that the right has been pulling since the beginning of the mortgage crisis. Only a small percentage of the foreclosures we've been seeing are related to federal guidelines pushing fannie and freddie to expand their loan portfolios to less affluent borrowers. The crisis would have happened with or without this.

On another note, OSC is a bigoted douchebag. I wish he would not only stop blogging, but I hope he stops writing fiction too. Ender's game was a pretty good book, but everything else he's ever written was total shit.
I respectfully disagree.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
You can disagree about the quality of his fiction (and I'd agree with you) but his claim of the subprime bubble's cause has been debunked in multiple threads here in P&N.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,515
3,611
126
Negative. Like I've posted at least twice(!!!! :p:D)in the last 3 weeks, that is just a pile of BS. Fannie and Freddie had nothing to do with this crisis, except becoming Victims of it when just this year they were used to try and fix the issue caused by the Publicly Traded Private Banks.
 

davestar

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2001
1,787
0
0
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
Originally posted by: eskimospy
In your excerpt OSC is attempting to pull the same crap that the right has been pulling since the beginning of the mortgage crisis. Only a small percentage of the foreclosures we've been seeing are related to federal guidelines pushing fannie and freddie to expand their loan portfolios to less affluent borrowers. The crisis would have happened with or without this.

On another note, OSC is a bigoted douchebag. I wish he would not only stop blogging, but I hope he stops writing fiction too. Ender's game was a pretty good book, but everything else he's ever written was total shit.
I respectfully disagree.
how can you disagree with proven statistics? fannie and freddie were not the main players in this meltdown.
 

kamiller42

Member
Sep 2, 2004
77
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
In your excerpt OSC is attempting to pull the same crap that the right has been pulling since the beginning of the mortgage crisis. Only a small percentage of the foreclosures we've been seeing are related to federal guidelines pushing fannie and freddie to expand their loan portfolios to less affluent borrowers. The crisis would have happened with or without this.
Republicans are not saying less affluent borrowers taking loans were the problem. The problem was risky borrowers. This includes but not limited to poor people and house flippers. They would also say Fannie and Freddie are not the source of all the trouble, but a major source and two serious dominoes to fall that set off a lot of other failures.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,352
25,077
136
Originally posted by: kamiller42
Originally posted by: eskimospy
In your excerpt OSC is attempting to pull the same crap that the right has been pulling since the beginning of the mortgage crisis. Only a small percentage of the foreclosures we've been seeing are related to federal guidelines pushing fannie and freddie to expand their loan portfolios to less affluent borrowers. The crisis would have happened with or without this.
Republicans are not saying less affluent borrowers taking loans were the problem. The problem was risky borrowers. This includes but not limited to poor people and house flippers. They would also say Fannie and Freddie are not the source of all the trouble, but a major source and two serious dominoes to fall that set off a lot of other failures.
Yes, you are right risky is not always poor. Anyways the point is not that having some of these additional risky loans on their back didn't hurt Fannie or Freddie, it's that they were only a small part of the housing collapse and to blame the housing meltdown on that is silly.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,511
140
106
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
Originally posted by: loki8481
OSC really needs to just shut up a sing... er, shut up and write fiction.

crap, I'd be happy if he just shut up and crawled into a hole to die.
You add nothing to the discussion. He makes nothing but valid assertions. You do not deny any them, which leads me to believe that he is correct, and you want him to shut up because he points out the holes in your belief system.

Why am I not surprised that you advocate censorship over honest journalism?
I actually agree with him in this limited situation, but it doesn't change the fact that OSC is a bigoted douchebag and that his colossal douchebaggery taints anything that comes out of his head.
Could you explain why you consider him such? Not looking for an argument, but I have admired his writing for some time now. I personally own almost all his books 1st editions. I've always felt one's writing reflects one's beliefs to a certain extent. Not that the protaganist couldn't be the antithesis of your core, but generrally it is not.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,352
25,077
136
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
Originally posted by: loki8481
OSC really needs to just shut up a sing... er, shut up and write fiction.

crap, I'd be happy if he just shut up and crawled into a hole to die.
You add nothing to the discussion. He makes nothing but valid assertions. You do not deny any them, which leads me to believe that he is correct, and you want him to shut up because he points out the holes in your belief system.

Why am I not surprised that you advocate censorship over honest journalism?
I actually agree with him in this limited situation, but it doesn't change the fact that OSC is a bigoted douchebag and that his colossal douchebaggery taints anything that comes out of his head.
Could you explain why you consider him such? Not looking for an argument, but I have admired his writing for some time now. I personally own almost all his books 1st editions. I've always felt one's writing reflects one's beliefs to a certain extent. Not that the protaganist couldn't be the antithesis of your core, but generrally it is not.
He has recently come out as a big supporter of the anti-gay proposition 8 in California.
 

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
He has been known to be against gay marriage, but if you ever read more of his books besides "Ender's Game", he has gay relations in them, and does not come off as anti-gay.

And you people are deluding yourself if you think Freddie and Fannie had nothing to do with, or no major part in the crumble. Claiming a thread posted in P&N debunked this theory is pure nonsense. I guess it is obvious, though, you view your opinion as fact, and nothing said contrary can over come it.

I have read both sides of the story and I frankly believe this side of the argument, and you the other. The fact of the blog though is pointing out the discrepancies in journalistic accuracy, and we should all be able to agree with that.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,659
9,786
136
How many times has this Fannie/Freddie caused the housing crisis FUD been refuted here already? If the OP had bothered to search, I'm sure he could have found a dozen threads here on the subject already, all complete with multiple links and articles refuting it. The media itself has delved deep into this Limbaugh/NY Post talking point since April and found it utterly lacking in anything remotely resembling the truth. And note that you do not see one single financial or real estate professional back it. Hmm... wonder why that is?

Here's where I stand on that issue... every time I hear that ignorant bullshit, I'm gonna post that John McCain fathered a black baby. Fair enough? They're about on the same level of truthiness.

 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,352
25,077
136
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
He has been known to be against gay marriage, but if you ever read more of his books besides "Ender's Game", he has gay relations in them, and does not come off as anti-gay.

And you people are deluding yourself if you think Freddie and Fannie had nothing to do with, or no major part in the crumble. Claiming a thread posted in P&N debunked this theory is pure nonsense. I guess it is obvious, though, you view your opinion as fact, and nothing said contrary can over come it.

I have read both sides of the story and I frankly believe this side of the argument, and you the other. The fact of the blog though is pointing out the discrepancies in journalistic accuracy, and we should all be able to agree with that.
I'm sorry, but every side of an argument is not equal. I didn't say that Fannie and Freddie didn't contribute to the collapse, what I did say was that the change in standards to allow riskier loans to be guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie, the main point of the OSC excerpt, was not a large factor in the crisis. I'm sorry, but the numbers don't lie. They comprised a small percentage of Fannie and Freddie's loan portfolio.

So no, I find his premise to be inaccurate and his conclusion absurd. He's trying the same old, tired, massivly discredited 'librul media' argument. It won't play with people who know better.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,515
3,611
126
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
He has been known to be against gay marriage, but if you ever read more of his books besides "Ender's Game", he has gay relations in them, and does not come off as anti-gay.

And you people are deluding yourself if you think Freddie and Fannie had nothing to do with, or no major part in the crumble. Claiming a thread posted in P&N debunked this theory is pure nonsense. I guess it is obvious, though, you view your opinion as fact, and nothing said contrary can over come it.

I have read both sides of the story and I frankly believe this side of the argument, and you the other. The fact of the blog though is pointing out the discrepancies in journalistic accuracy, and we should all be able to agree with that.
That's fine, but you are wrong.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
Originally posted by: loki8481
OSC really needs to just shut up a sing... er, shut up and write fiction.

crap, I'd be happy if he just shut up and crawled into a hole to die.
You add nothing to the discussion. He makes nothing but valid assertions. You do not deny any them, which leads me to believe that he is correct, and you want him to shut up because he points out the holes in your belief system.

Why am I not surprised that you advocate censorship over honest journalism?
I actually agree with him in this limited situation, but it doesn't change the fact that OSC is a bigoted douchebag and that his colossal douchebaggery taints anything that comes out of his head.
Could you explain why you consider him such? Not looking for an argument, but I have admired his writing for some time now. I personally own almost all his books 1st editions. I've always felt one's writing reflects one's beliefs to a certain extent. Not that the protaganist couldn't be the antithesis of your core, but generrally it is not.
He has recently come out as a big supporter of the anti-gay proposition 8 in California.
supporting it to the extent of advocating violence against the state of CA if they legalize gay marriage.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
571
126
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
He has been known to be against gay marriage, but if you ever read more of his books besides "Ender's Game", he has gay relations in them, and does not come off as anti-gay.

And you people are deluding yourself if you think Freddie and Fannie had nothing to do with, or no major part in the crumble. Claiming a thread posted in P&N debunked this theory is pure nonsense. I guess it is obvious, though, you view your opinion as fact, and nothing said contrary can over come it.

I have read both sides of the story and I frankly believe this side of the argument, and you the other. The fact of the blog though is pointing out the discrepancies in journalistic accuracy, and we should all be able to agree with that.
I'm sorry, but every side of an argument is not equal. I didn't say that Fannie and Freddie didn't contribute to the collapse, what I did say was that the change in standards to allow riskier loans to be guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie, the main point of the OSC excerpt, was not a large factor in the crisis. I'm sorry, but the numbers don't lie. They comprised a small percentage of Fannie and Freddie's loan portfolio.

So no, I find his premise to be inaccurate and his conclusion absurd. He's trying the same old, tired, massivly discredited 'librul media' argument. It won't play with people who know better.
Well why did the subprime market crash?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,352
25,077
136
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: eskimospy

I'm sorry, but every side of an argument is not equal. I didn't say that Fannie and Freddie didn't contribute to the collapse, what I did say was that the change in standards to allow riskier loans to be guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie, the main point of the OSC excerpt, was not a large factor in the crisis. I'm sorry, but the numbers don't lie. They comprised a small percentage of Fannie and Freddie's loan portfolio.

So no, I find his premise to be inaccurate and his conclusion absurd. He's trying the same old, tired, massivly discredited 'librul media' argument. It won't play with people who know better.
Well why did the subprime market crash?
There are a whole load of threads on these boards with some pretty good posts on the topic. There are a lot of reasons, and I don't really want to retype it all. If you search those threads and read through them you will see it is a complex problem with a whole lot of fathers.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
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Originally posted by: loki8481
supporting it to the extent of advocating violence against the state of CA if they legalize gay marriage.
And yet you support a man running for president who selected a running mate who is quoted as saying (within the last couple days) that she supports a Constitutional Amendment at the federal level completely banning gay marriage... Something doesn't add up.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,576
431
126
If I debated Orson Scott Card on the air about this issue, I would spend the entire segment talking about the Ender's Shadow books, plus the Ender books after Ender's Game itself. I would tell Mr. Card how annoying it was to read the revisionism he piled on to every book as he went. Okay, yes, it's your literary universe to shape as you see fit. But how about not completely rewriting the how's and why's of how everything happens every time you spit out a new novel? At this point the events in Ender's Game have lost all significance to me.

For my closing argument, I would tell Mr. Card that he other book series sucked as well, and, finally, would make a threat against Jonathan Kellerman's life. Bastard hack writers.
 

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