Would like some printer advice

[Ken90630]

Hi, All,

I need to get a new printer soon and would like some advice. I'm not a serious photographer yet, but I plan to get more serious one of these days. I also plan on needing to print graphics soon. As such, I'd like to get a printer that will meet those needs when the time comes.

What I'd like to know is, what sort of emulation (if that's the right term) should the printer be capable of in order to print properly from Adobe software like Photoshop and Illustrator (and Acrobat)? I see the terms "PCL-6" and "postscript" but don't really know what they mean.

Are there any other considerations I need to take into account in terms of making sure the printer is capable of printing whatever I might throw at it? Basically, I don't want to buy a printer and then find myself saying later, "Dang -- to really print this properly, I should have bought a printer that can do ___________, but I didn't know it at the time."

I'm probably going to get a color laser or color AIO machine, or possibly a high quality ink jet machine from Canon. I want to be able to print graphics and photos with high quality but not necessarily professional quality. Any advice (or links to a good tutorial on this subject) would be appreciated.

TIA

 

[Zepper]

PCL is page control language and when used capitalized stands for the language that was developed by HP for use in their laser and inkjet printers as they didn't want to pay Adobe the going rate to use PS in their firmware (though even HP may offer PS as a fairly expensive option). Post Script means "after writing" and is Adobe's trademarked name for its page control language - they do basically the same thing. PS is what is used by most professional printers for page control duty, so you should have software that can produce PS output even if you don't have a local machine that can receive it directly. I believe PS printer drivers are available separately that will accept the output from any program and create a PS file of it. Software conversion tools between pcls are also available.
. Laser printers are the only type (at least in the consumer-level market) that can be expected to accept PostScript directly (may be an extra cost option or standard equipment - some can handle both PS and PCL at some level). Some use true Adobe PS in their firmware and others use clones. I've heard the Lexmark PS clone was excellent. It used to be that you could exert finer control over how things would look on a printed page with PS, but IDK where the advantage lies these days, if any.
. If you are doing master layout proofs or final production in-house for external or commercial consumption, then PS is probably the way to go as most professional tools are designed around it. However, if you use outside services for the final production steps, all you need is to be able to output a PS file to disk, burn a CD and deliver it - your agency can handle the rest.
. Printers that are designed for PS will have available native DPIs like 360 or 720 horizontally as those are evenly divisible to pro printers' standard measures. Most PCL based printers normally rated at 300 or 600 DPI native. For PS, the vertical dots should divide evenly by 72 (as the printer's measure, called the "point", is 1/72"), so you'd get 360 or a multiple for the vertical DPI as well. There are also PS fonts that are designed to look best at printers' measures rather than the typical 3 or 600 DPI of the PCL printer (I think TrueType fonts lean toward the PCL output standards, though I could be wrong on that) At least it used to be that if you used a TT font for which there was no direct PS equivalent, in a doc that was printed to a PS file that was sent to a pro press prep agency, then a "close" PS font designation would be substituted which was equal to a standard printer's type font. So professional publication designers may still stick to PS fonts for items being created for professional printing. Now even the pro printing end is all digital, so that may no longer be the case either...
. Most top graphical or page layout tools (say Photoshop or PageMaker - they're from Adobe, the home of PS) can do that. Even many under $100. desktop publishing, etc. programs can do that. OTOH, if you are buying pro level machines for use in-house, you should be able to take a disc with you and print out a short project to both and have your most finicky artist and/or publication designer go over the pages with a fine toothed comb. The diff. may be too subtle to be significant. OTOH, if your printed materials are primarily for in-house use, then you needn't go to all that trouble. And for just printing photographs or graphics as stand-alone images - then the page control language makes no diff, whatsoever. It's just when placement and relationships on a page of the text and graphical blocks and dividers as part of an overall publication is important then the pcl can become an issue in the perception of your publication (but even then probably only to other pro designers or printers) - the average viewer would not likely notice the difference between a PCL or PS layed-out publication or care.

I could direct you to Wikipedia for entries on both PCL (HP) and PS (Adobe) and pcl generically. Generally, non-political topics are safe, but some people can turn any topic political... Opinion as fact is rampant, so one always needs to carry his salt shaker when visiting the Wiki and verify critical info from original sources. :roll:

.bh.

 

[Ken90630]

Wow, thanks for all that info. That's awesome.

If I understand you correctly, the issue is one of having the capable drivers and/or firmware to reproduce the particular PCL. And if that's the case, I basically just need to find a color laser machine that will accept Adobe PS directly or do a little research and find out if its clone is good enough. Am I on the right track here?

On that subject, what do 'cheapy' ink jet machines do to print, say, photos created in Adobe Photoshop since, like you say, only laser machine are likely to accept PS directly? Do they use some sort of "emulation" (again, not sure if that's the right term) to simulate PS as closely as possible?

That stuff you mention about TrueType fonts is interesting because I think I've run across that in the past. I'd type something in a document in a unique font, but the printer wouldn't reproduce it properly (this was at a company I used to work for). Now I know what was probably causing the discrepancy.

I hadn't thought about Wikipedia. Good idea -- I'll read up more on some of this.

Thanks again for all the info and the time you took to type all that out. I owe 'ya one. :beer:

 

[Zepper]

Believe it or not, I did that all from memory so it is surely lacking in some respects (as the gray matter has become leakier at my advanced age), but generally on target. For cheap inkjet printers the translation from program output to what the printer can understand is done in the proprietary driver that you install for it (for the really cheap, Win-based printers both ends are done in the computer). Likewise, the PS capable printer will provide a printer driver that takes the output from your program and turns it into PS instructions which are then interpreted by the PS firmware in the printer to what the hardware needs directly. It is possible that expensive software like PageMaker would have a printer driver/translator that can accept PS and translate it into what the printer needs - that is one point I'm not terrifically clear on myself. Also in the fancy desktop publishing/page design programs (and some cheaper ones too), you can set the measurements to one of three types: metric, inches, or points, so you can work directly to pro printers' measures that are best for PS. I know *nixen (unix, linux, BSD and the latest Apple OS) have a thing called GhostScript that does some print translation too, but I've never really applied myself to the study of it.
. I do advise to both check the entries at Wikipedia and or the Adobe Web site which has a "layman's" explanation of PS and more technical info as well. The HP site should have similar info on their PCL - both probably linked from their Wiki entries. And the computer section of your fave book store will contain THICK books on each as well if you really develop an interest or need that level of knowledge for your job.

.bh.

 

[Ken90630]

Yeah, I've got a little more reading to do. But the info you've given me already tells me what I think I need to know, and you've prolly saved me some money by preventing a buying mistake. Thanks a mil (again).

BTW, do you have any opinion, good or bad, on Oki color laser printers and/or their AIO machines? They're a bit pricey compared to the typical HP/Lexmark/Brother, etc., machines, but they look like they might be built more solidly and maybe last longer. I'm really not a big fan of the 'disposable' concept of buying a new printer every 2 or 3 years, which is what I think is kind of expected with most of the aforementioned brands.

 

[Zepper]

Sorry, I'm not a laser printer user as most good inkjet printers can do a better job on photos than any color laser. But like most brands, some models get good reviews and others in the same line don't. I figure once you've got laser printing down, it should be down for good and quality shouldn't be all over the map across a line, but it seems so. Perhaps their consistency of manufacture needs work. In some models, Oki uses a row of LED "shutters" to allow the light in to sensitize the drum which should theoretically last longer and perform better than the rotating mirror mechanism that most laser printers use. In any case you should be able to find reviews of most models that might interest you. For a while, Lexmark was a preferred model in business settings for their output quality at a reasonable TCO and I believe the ones Dell is selling are made by them as well. Good luck and remember what I said in my first reply: unless you are preparing desktop publishing type documents with mixed photos, graphics and text blocks that need precise layout, the printer command language is irrelevant.

.bh.

 

[Ken90630]

Yeah, I'll check for reviews of the models that interest me. I wonder why Oki's tend to be so much more expensive -- maybe they're still made in Japan or something? That would actually be a plus for me if it's the case. Or maybe the LED technology just adds to the cost to produce them.

I've had the perception, rightly or wrongly, that Lexmark was to be avoided because they gouge you horrendously on ink/toner prices. I have a couple friends & acquaintances that have Dells and Lexmarks, and a couple years ago I remember them both telling me what they were paying for ink and I was shocked. I mean it was waaay more than even HP supplies at the time. I don't know if that's still the case, however. I also remember a rumour that Lexmark was supposedly selling their ink jet printers at a loss, just to get them into people's hands, then making it up by gouging on the ink because they knew people had to have it. But I never 'investigated' that rumour and don't know if it was true or not.

But I'll be checking out a number of brands during my search and comparing the TCOs, of course. Thanks again for all the info/education. :beer:

 

[Zepper]

Yes, Lexmark and Dell inkjet refills are extortionate, but I don't recommend their ink jet printers. I thought their laser toners were more reasonable as they sell more into the business market where costs have to be justified.

.bh.

 

[Ken90630]

Originally posted by: Zepper
Yes, Lexmark and Dell inkjet refills are extortionate, but I don't recommend their ink jet printers. I thought their laser toners were more reasonable as they sell more into the business market where costs have to be justified.

.bh.

Ahh, okay, that makes sense. I'll have to check into the toner price angle.

"Extortionate" -- that's the perfect word to describe their ink prices! :laugh:

 

[Zepper]

I went to PC World's web site today and after reading what I went there for, I clicked on Printers and saw they have a list of their "Top 10 Color Laser Printers" Each unit in the list has links to a "full review" which are actually quite shallow and a "Test Report". I found the latter to be quite useful. I didn't see any that had native resolution to support PS directly. 600 dpi works out to 8.333 dots per 1/72"... I remember that the old dot matrix printers could all easily print to pro printers measures.

.bh.

 

[Ken90630]

Interesting. So what would the native res have to be to support PS directly?

Shifting gears, I cruised Oki's site briefly today and noticed some verbiage I'd like your take on. For their model C6150 color laser printer, under the Specifications, it says, "PCL® 5 and PostScript® 3? emulations." I'm not clear on the word "emulation" here and what they're saying -- are they saying the printer accepts those two PCLs directly, or that it, well, emulates them by doing Oki's own version (or reasonable facsimile) of PCL5 and PS3?

And for the less expensive C5650dn (closer to my budget), it just says, "Emulation: Enhanced Windows® Printing (GDI)," which I assume means no PCL6 or PS. Would that necessarily be a problem as long as I don't have to do professional documents where precise layout is important? I guess I'm less concerned about precise layout than I am with the printer's ability to reproduce all the fonts I might throw at it (maybe including TT fonts). I won't be sending any material out -- the whole idea of getting a nice printer would be so I could do it all in house.

 

[Zepper]

The win printing GDI means that all the printing smarts is in the driver - no onboard processing in the printer. So your computer does all the work in getting the image to the page. I remember some time ago that a friend had a low-end Canon laser printer that was Win based (GDI - graphics device interface) it was no fun. Those only work with Windwoes unless the mfr. does a special driver for Linux, the Mac OS, etc.. I avoid those when possible even though they are inexpensive.
. As I wrote in an earlier message, you need a native res. like 360 or 720 DPI to get pro printer alignment on a page in points. But most folks can get along fine with about 1/20" units, so a decimal unit like 300 or 600 DPI will work OK. I don't think I've ever had a printer capable of PS and some of my stuff looks really good when I make the effort. Also as I mentioned earlier, most viewers of your work wouldn't be able to tell the diff at all.
. A friend of mine had a friend who would comment on the graphics and layout skills displayed in the magazine he was reading. But then, I do that with the language skills displayed in things that are supposed to be professionally written. It's sad to be so critical... I find it very difficult to read a novel whose author has lesser skills with the language than I and hasn't done his homework - Stephen King's stuff, for example, is intolerable to me.
. If you read the article on PCL in Wikipedia, you may have noticed that the author didn't care much for PCL-6. He said that too many processing errors occurred with it. So maybe it should be avoided, or then again it may be just his particular critical gotcha... If a PCL-6 presses all your buttons, I'd look for some corroboration on the PCL-6 error proneness before rejecting it out of hand.

.bh.