Would Israel attack Iran without U.S. approval?

[Lemon law]

EK asks, "Where do you get the information that Iran has missiles that are accurate enough to hit Israel."

Its kinda a no brainer EK, if Iran has the technology to put satellites in Orbit multiple times, they have the technology to hit dismona.

EK you may be under a rose colored glasses view that Iran is still mired at the technological level of Hamas, and that all Israel has to do is bomb Iranian nuclear centers and all of Iran will simply roll over and play dead.

When the Iran of 20 years ago, when it had no defensive threats, was willing to resist Saddam Hussain of Iraq and his then huge and almost invincible tank army to the last drop of Iranian blood. Which is basically what it cost Iran to finally beat of the Iraqi attack.

EK do you really think Iran would surrender to Israel when it didn't surrender to Iraq.
And Iran would not make damn sure that Israel would pay an unacceptably high price for attacking without justification? Or that the rest of the world would not mussel the Israeli pit bull, After all, If Israel can do it to Iran, why should Israeli paranoia justify similar attacks against the EU and anyone that dares be critical of Israeli Megalomania.

EK, its a close race, who is more delusional, you or Bozo Netanyuhu? Do you really think the world would allow Israel to use nukes against Iran? But the world would allow and expect Iran to counterattack Israel with non nuclear weapons if Israel attacks first.

Its just that other side of Mutually assured destruction.

 

[cybrsage]

The Shahab-3 missile can hit Europe, so it can hit Israel as well. How accurrately, I cannot say. It does have the distance, though.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Jericho-3 missles FTW!

 

[Nebor]

I wish this shit would kick off already so we can see how it plays out and LL can STFU.

 

[Lemon law]

I wish this shit would kick off already so we can see how it plays out and LL can STFU.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given how bat shit crazy Bozo Netanuyu is, Nebor you may get your wish, but I don't think anyone will be crowing thereafter as events spin out of all control.

 

[Nebor]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given how bat shit crazy Bozo Netanuyu is, Nebor you may get your wish, but I don't think anyone will be crowing thereafter as events spin out of all control.

Everything is always in someone's control.

 

[EagleKeeper]

EK asks, "Where do you get the information that Iran has missiles that are accurate enough to hit Israel."

Its kinda a no brainer EK, if Iran has the technology to put satellites in Orbit multiple times, they have the technology to hit dismona.

EK you may be under a rose colored glasses view that Iran is still mired at the technological level of Hamas, and that all Israel has to do is bomb Iranian nuclear centers and all of Iran will simply roll over and play dead.

When the Iran of 20 years ago, when it had no defensive threats, was willing to resist Saddam Hussain of Iraq and his then huge and almost invincible tank army to the last drop of Iranian blood. Which is basically what it cost Iran to finally beat of the Iraqi attack.

EK do you really think Iran would surrender to Israel when it didn't surrender to Iraq.
And Iran would not make damn sure that Israel would pay an unacceptably high price for attacking without justification? Or that the rest of the world would not mussel the Israeli pit bull, After all, If Israel can do it to Iran, why should Israeli paranoia justify similar attacks against the EU and anyone that dares be critical of Israeli Megalomania.

EK, its a close race, who is more delusional, you or Bozo Netanyuhu? Do you really think the world would allow Israel to use nukes against Iran? But the world would allow and expect Iran to counterattack Israel with non nuclear weapons if Israel attacks first.

Its just that other side of Mutually assured destruction.

You are the one talking about use of nukes.

Also, you are the one that seems to think that Israel will attempt to defeat Iran.

All they want to do is either cripple the nuke program or expose it so the world can follow up.

They are not interested in capitulation of Iran, unlike what Iraq was attempting.

Israel has the justification based on Iranian proxies attacking Israel.
Up to this point, she has tolerated the proxies because they are not a serious technological threat.

Iran is becoming a threat; if Iran was to tone down the hatred/rhetoric, Israel might not be so concerned.

Yet Israel went after the reactor in Syria and was proven correct.
she will have her ducks in order to prove/backup the jsutifications for her actions.

 

[Lemon law]

EK, are you really so delusional that you believe an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites using conventional explosive will do anything at all. There are well over 30 some Iranian sites all all of them are deeply buried, and beyond the the explosive power of conventional bunker busting bombs to breech.

But Iran, using just conventional missiles and no nukes, is certain to target the Israeli reactor at dismona that still has the same undefendable position that the reactors of Iraq and later Syria had. As history shows, Israel took out both reactors with single sortie of Planes. And now you EK are saying, Iran, using conventional weapons won't take out the equally vulnerable dismona reactor as target counterattack priority number one.

As Jediy says, those are some really fine mushrooms you are smoking,

Because if the Desmona recator is destroyed, its game over for Israel, as their holy land of milk and honey, will instantly become radioactive wasteland land. Sure Israel can make parts if Iran into a glass parking lot, but Israelis will still have no homeland to return to either. And the blame always belongs to the party that attacks first.

What part of mutually assured destruction don't you understand EK? Even Lebanon can now defend itself against Israel,

 

[peonyu]

And then what happens? next year, 10 years from today? 20?

Attacking the Iranians is easily the stupidest thing that the Israelis could possibly do, which why the Netanyahu regime wants desperately to do it. Even when they're winning, and have been for decades, they have a faux Masada headset, act as if they're the victims rather than the perps. It's sickening.

Iran wants Israel [and ALL Jews in the world] to be destroyed. There is no question about that, and for that matter the Egyptians, Saudis, Palestinians, Turks [etc etc etc, insert Muslim country here] would be joyous to see them destroyed aswell. Jews have EVERY reason to be defensive, and more often than not it is better for them to strike first rather than wait and see what happens [the holocaust happened the last time they waited]...


Btw, the quote below is from the Quaran, which the ISLAMIC Republic of Iran follows as law. That quote explains clearly the Muslim Religious thought about Jews since it is from their Holy Book...


"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim, 41:6981, Sahih Muslim, 41:6982, Sahih Muslim, 41:6983, Sahih Muslim, 41:6984, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:56:791,(Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:177)

 

[iGas]

Iran wants Israel [and ALL Jews in the world] to be destroyed. There is no question about that, and for that matter the Egyptians, Saudis, Palestinians, Turks [etc etc etc, insert Muslim country here] would be joyous to see them destroyed aswell. Jews have EVERY reason to be defensive, and more often than not it is better for them to strike first rather than wait and see what happens [the holocaust happened the last time they waited]...


Btw, the quote below is from the Quaran, which the ISLAMIC Republic of Iran follows as law. That quote explains clearly the Muslim Religious thought about Jews since it is from their Holy Book...


"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim, 41:6981, Sahih Muslim, 41:6982, Sahih Muslim, 41:6983, Sahih Muslim, 41:6984, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:56:791,(Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:177)

What crack are you smoking?

Iran have the second largest Jews population in the ME after Israel. They are a live and well and are enjoy greater rights than other Jews that live in the rest of the Arab countries. And, perhaps Jews are less discriminated in Iran than the discrimination against Muslim/Arab in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews

Iran
Iran's Jewish population was reduced from 100,000–150,000 in 1948 to about 80,000 immediately before the Iranian Revolution, due mostly to immigration to Israel. While immigration to Israel had slowed in the 1970s and the Jewish population of Iran had stabilized, the majority of Iran's remaining Jews left the country in the aftermath of the overthrow of the Shah. The current Jewish population of Iran is estimated by most sources to be 25,000,[11][12][13][14] though estimates vary, as low as 11,000 [15] and as high as 40,000.[16] Notable population centers include Tehran, Isfahan (1,200),[17] and Shiraz. Historically, Jews maintained a presence in many more Iranian cities. Jews are protected in the Iranian constitution and seat is reserved for a Jew in the Majlis.[12] Iran hosts the largest Jewish population of any Muslim-majority country.[18] After Israel, it is home to the second-largest Jewish population in the Middle East.[11]

Jews in Iran are generally regarded as having been subject to less discrimination than in the Arab world, however after Ayatollah Khomeini's Islamic Revolution, the Jewish people and religion have been regularly defamed by the Mullahs.[19]

http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/01-09-2010/114833-jews_of_iran_are_far_better_off-0/

There are 25,000 Jews in Iran, which is the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside Israel. Iranian Jews are not persecuted or abused, in fact, they are protected under the Iranian constitution. They are free to practice their religion and to vote in elections. They are not stopped and searched at checkpoints, are not brutalized by an army of occupation and are not confined in a densely populated penal colony (Gaza) where they are deprived of the basic means of subsistence. Iranian Jews live in dignity and enjoy the benefits of citizenship.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is demonized by Western media. He is called anti-Semitic and a "new Hitler." But if these allegations were true, then why did the majority of Iranian Jews vote for Ahmadinejad in the recent presidential elections? Is it possible that most of what is known about Ahmadinejad is based only on rumors and propaganda?

How do you expect children to get along with each others when the adults are acting like immature brats?

 

[JEDIYoda]

What crack are you smoking?

Iran have the second largest Jews population in the ME after Israel. They are a live and well and are enjoy greater rights than other Jews that live in the rest of the Arab countries. And, perhaps Jews are less discriminated in Iran than the discrimination against Muslim/Arab in Israel.

If thats true and we all can believe wiki-pedia....
Then please explain away what the Quaran says about the Jewish people?

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim, 41:6981, Sahih Muslim, 41:6982, Sahih Muslim, 41:6983, Sahih Muslim, 41:6984, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:56:791,(Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:177)

 

[iGas]

If thats true and we all can believe wiki-pedia....
Then please explain away what the Quaran says about the Jewish people?

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim, 41:6981, Sahih Muslim, 41:6982, Sahih Muslim, 41:6983, Sahih Muslim, 41:6984, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:56:791,(Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:177)

Then there is no foul play here when both parties are at fault. Therefore, both should apologized to each others and shake hands as adults.

IMHO, only religious fundies are getting their panties in a wad over this, and are too stupid to know that they are being manipulated by their government and media.

War == profits for a select few.

 

[peonyu]

What crack are you smoking?

Iran have the second largest Jews population in the ME after Israel. They are a live and well and are enjoy greater rights than other Jews that live in the rest of the Arab countries. And, perhaps Jews are less discriminated in Iran than the discrimination against Muslim/Arab in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews

Iran
Iran's Jewish population was reduced from 100,000–150,000 in 1948 to about 80,000 immediately before the Iranian Revolution, due mostly to immigration to Israel. While immigration to Israel had slowed in the 1970s and the Jewish population of Iran had stabilized, the majority of Iran's remaining Jews left the country in the aftermath of the overthrow of the Shah. The current Jewish population of Iran is estimated by most sources to be 25,000,[11][12][13][14] though estimates vary, as low as 11,000 [15] and as high as 40,000.[16] Notable population centers include Tehran, Isfahan (1,200),[17] and Shiraz. Historically, Jews maintained a presence in many more Iranian cities. Jews are protected in the Iranian constitution and seat is reserved for a Jew in the Majlis.[12] Iran hosts the largest Jewish population of any Muslim-majority country.[18] After Israel, it is home to the second-largest Jewish population in the Middle East.[11]

Jews in Iran are generally regarded as having been subject to less discrimination than in the Arab world, however after Ayatollah Khomeini's Islamic Revolution, the Jewish people and religion have been regularly defamed by the Mullahs.[19]

http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/01-09-2010/114833-jews_of_iran_are_far_better_off-0/

There are 25,000 Jews in Iran, which is the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside Israel. Iranian Jews are not persecuted or abused, in fact, they are protected under the Iranian constitution. They are free to practice their religion and to vote in elections. They are not stopped and searched at checkpoints, are not brutalized by an army of occupation and are not confined in a densely populated penal colony (Gaza) where they are deprived of the basic means of subsistence. Iranian Jews live in dignity and enjoy the benefits of citizenship.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is demonized by Western media. He is called anti-Semitic and a "new Hitler." But if these allegations were true, then why did the majority of Iranian Jews vote for Ahmadinejad in the recent presidential elections? Is it possible that most of what is known about Ahmadinejad is based only on rumors and propaganda?

How do you expect children to get along with each others when the adults are acting like immature brats?

In 1948 there were 100,000 Jews in Iran if you believe the low end estimate, and its down to 25k today if you believe the high end estimate for today's Iranian-Jewish population. Thats a drop of 75% of the Jewish population in 60 years, obviously life in Iran is not all roses for the Jews there otherwise they would not have left in such massive numbers. The high end population of 150k would mean more than 9 out of 10 Jews left Iran in the last 60 years, I bet they were treated like shit to leave in such numbers.

Besides that, the reality is that the Jews of Iran are going extinct, just because they have the highest population of the Muslim world today means nothing[its still in decline btw]...Go back to 1948 and some Arab nations had Jewish populations in excess of 300,000...Most of those countries have 0 Jews today - They were forced to emigrate to Israel. And that is why the Arabs are hypocrites, they say Jews dont belong in Israel, yet they were happy to force them to move there...I guess they just want to push them into the sea to drown.

 

[Orignal Earl]

If thats true and we all can believe wiki-pedia....
Then please explain away what the Quaran says about the Jewish people?

Just read the whole wiki instead of just the quote, that's the best way to learn...
Man..how you served 6 years Military Intelligence is beyond belief or explains a lot about American Intelligence..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism

To peonyu

You should read up on why so many Jews from a lot of different countries made the trip
When you get offered a better life and a paid for trip, lot's of folks took the deal

I was reading about this Iranian Muslim the other day.

*The 'Iranian Schindler' who saved Jews from the Nazis*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16190541

You don't get to learn about these people on the JediYoda show

 

[Lemon law]

The Jews, Muslims, and Christians are all people of the book, and peonyu is correct that many Mid-east countries expelled their Jews because of Israel.

But what peonyu fails to mention is that Arab countries only took that step, AFTER Israel started to murder and disenfranchise its Palestinian population and force them out at the point of a gun. In 2/1948, Palestinians owned 2/3 of the land in what would become Israel. By 1953 Israel made it illegal for a Palestinian to own any land in Israel.

 

[Orignal Earl]

The Jews, Muslims, and Christians are all people of the book, and peonyu is correct that many Mid-east countries expelled their Jews because of Israel.

But what peonyu fails to mention is that Arab countries only took that step, AFTER Israel started to murder and disenfranchise its Palestinian population and force them out at the point of a gun. In 2/1948, Palestinians owned 2/3 of the land in what would become Israel. By 1953 Israel made it illegal for a Palestinian to own any land in Israel.

Heh

So I start to check out which Arab countries expelled the Jews and which ones did not, and the first thing I read is this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

Algeria
Almost all Jews of Algeria left upon independence in 1962, particularly as "the Algerian Nationality Code of 1963 excluded non-Muslims from acquiring citizenship",[32] allowing citizenship only to those Algerians who had Muslim paternal fathers and grandfathers.

Guess which country that reminded me of

 

[cybrsage]

Heh

So I start to check out which Arab countries expelled the Jews and which ones did not, and the first thing I read is this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

Algeria
Almost all Jews of Algeria left upon independence in 1962, particularly as "the Algerian Nationality Code of 1963 excluded non-Muslims from acquiring citizenship",[32] allowing citizenship only to those Algerians who had Muslim paternal fathers and grandfathers.

Guess which country that reminded me of

Dunno, certainly not Israel:

Citizenship can be granted through four ways:
-Birth
-Immigration
-Residence
-Naturalization

Birth:
Just as in the United States, if you are born to a mother or father who has Israeli citizenship, you obtain citizenship. This applies even if the subject is born outside of Israel. Even if the Israeli parent has died before the subject’s birth, they still have the right to citizenship. If you are born in Israel without nationality (as will be discussed), you must submit an application between the 18th and 25th birthday and also must have been living in Israel for the preceding five years before the submission of the application.

http://st2008.trincoll.edu/~mdearin2/Israeli Citizenship.htm

 

[Orignal Earl]

You really are not going to try and suggest the US and Israel are anywhere the same are you?
Is the Arab bill of Human Rights the same as yours?

You forgot Return for some reason...
Probably because that would bring in the whole have to be Jewish thing right?

Residence
Citizenship by residence was intended for non-Jewish denizens of the British Mandate of Palestine (Arabs, Druze, Bedouins, etc.) who were considered to be associated with Palestine during the period immediately prior to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Such denizens who were still within the territorial confines of Israel after the war were granted full Israeli citizenship. In order to determine who was eligible for citizenship under this provision, the state of Israel conducted a population registration in 1952 and again in the 1980s. Those found to meet the requirements obtained Israeli citizenship. For purposes regarding modern Israeli citizenship, this section is usually irrelevant.

Birth- Yup, if your Jewish parents gave birth to you in Israel

Naturalization- Can you show some of these cases? Pretty it's the boot before anyone qualifies for this.

Position of Arab-Palestinians
In January 2012, the Supreme Court of Israel upheld a law banning Palestinians who marry Israelis from gaining Israeli citizenship

I did just learn though by reading the links that if an Israeli enters what is considered an enemy state , they can lose their citizenship? who all are Israel's enemy states?

lol @ the thought of losing your American citizenship for entering Iran.

Ya no, it's not like the US

 

[iGas]

In 1948 there were 100,000 Jews in Iran if you believe the low end estimate, and its down to 25k today if you believe the high end estimate for today's Iranian-Jewish population. Thats a drop of 75% of the Jewish population in 60 years, obviously life in Iran is not all roses for the Jews there otherwise they would not have left in such massive numbers. The high end population of 150k would mean more than 9 out of 10 Jews left Iran in the last 60 years, I bet they were treated like shit to leave in such numbers.

Besides that, the reality is that the Jews of Iran are going extinct, just because they have the highest population of the Muslim world today means nothing[its still in decline btw]...Go back to 1948 and some Arab nations had Jewish populations in excess of 300,000...Most of those countries have 0 Jews today - They were forced to emigrate to Israel. And that is why the Arabs are hypocrites, they say Jews dont belong in Israel, yet they were happy to force them to move there...I guess they just want to push them into the sea to drown.

It is 2012 now, and not 1948.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And yet because of your hate for their government you would call for the deaths of 74 million people.

I know you dont really have the ability to make that call and if you did have the ability to make that call you would probably think twice about killing 74 million people.

Your reading comprehension is limited. I didn't call for anything. What happens will be the consequence of such action as LL outlined. I predicted what happened with Iraq, I did not cause it nor did I ask for it. You don't have to like it. It is what it is.

 

[kylebisme]

Btw, the quote below is from the Quaran, which the ISLAMIC Republic of Iran follows as law. That quote explains clearly the Muslim Religious thought about Jews since it is from their Holy Book...


"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim, 41:6981, Sahih Muslim, 41:6982, Sahih Muslim, 41:6983, Sahih Muslim, 41:6984, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:56:791,(Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:177)

If thats true and we all can believe wiki-pedia....
Then please explain away what the Quaran says about the Jewish people?

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim, 41:6981, Sahih Muslim, 41:6982, Sahih Muslim, 41:6983, Sahih Muslim, 41:6984, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:56:791,(Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:177)

That quote isn't from the Qur'an. Its from "Sahih Muslim, 41:6985" just like it says in what you two copied and pasted.

 

[cybrsage]

You really are not going to try and suggest the US and Israel are anywhere the same are you?

Only you made this claim. You need to ask yourself why you said it.

You forgot Return for some reason...

It is part of Naturalization.

You never did say what nation it reminded you of in your post. Please do so.

 

[Oric]

All the debate about Israel vs Iran is just to blur the real reason why Iran is under pressure.

Iran will be the first ME nation with a real detterent to protect its nationalized oil industry.

The Iran government knows better not to use nukes against Israel, what is the gain other than a few seconds of mindless orgasm which will be followed by heavy destruction on them ? The nukes are to protect their national wealth against the international cartel of oil companies and nations.

 

[Nebor]

All the debate about Israel vs Iran is just to blur the real reason why Iran is under pressure.

Iran will be the first ME nation with a real detterent to protect its nationalized oil industry.

The Iran government knows better not to use nukes against Israel, what is the gain other than a few seconds of mindless orgasm which will be followed by heavy destruction on them ? The nukes are to protect their national wealth against the international cartel of oil companies and nations.

Hopefully we can stop them in time.

 

[Abwx]

Heh

So I start to check out which Arab countries expelled the Jews and which ones did not, and the first thing I read is this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

Algeria
Almost all Jews of Algeria left upon independence in 1962, particularly as "the Algerian Nationality Code of 1963 excluded non-Muslims from acquiring citizenship",[32] allowing citizenship only to those Algerians who had Muslim paternal fathers and grandfathers.

Guess which country that reminded me of

That s not true..
.
The Algerian jews , who were genuine algerians for centuries
were granted french citizenship under pressure of the Rothshild
family that did make it a condition to finance France s 1870 war
reparations asked by the then wining Germany.

This granted citizenship is known as the Cremieux decree..
As such , algerian jewry was traitor to its own country.

At the independance people living in Algeria had to choose
either algerian or french citizenship with no possibility
at the time of dual citizenry , so jewry , given its past history
did choose french citizenship and emigrated massively in France
as did the french living there.....

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Décret_Crémieux