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Would Intel's rumoured 800fsb more likely be 133MHzx6 or 100MHzx8, rather than 200MHzx4?

MadRat

Lifer
I was thinking that Intel could support DDR333 and DDR400 memory at the same time as 533fsb and 800fsb by using 133MHz as a baseline frequency. I realize that 133MHz doesn't fit into 800MHz unless its running 6x. 800MHz fits nicely if its 4x a 200fsb. It seems awfully strange, considering how many problems Intel has had in the past trying to make too big of leaps in performance, to try to engineer a 200MHz front-side bus just yet. It also seems like an uphill battle to re-engineer a true DDR400 standard to match Intel's strict design parameters since so many remarked DDR333 sticks are already out there.

Intel has a history of relaxing tolerances in order to introduce new standards. When they moved to 80286 from 8086 it allowed them to scale work while working slower internally. When they introduced the P60 its internal speed was actually slower than the 486 chips it replaced. The P2's and P3's have been released with comparable internal frequencies, true, but the P4's dropped back to a 100fsb while the P3's were operating at 133fsb. Makes me wonder if they won't pull something like this on the 800fsb they have rumor dropped at Comdex. The current P4's are running 133fsb and the next logical progression would be to move to a 166fsb, for a virtual 667MHz front-side bus.

Why would they go 6x? I'd think because the PCI and AGP standards are matched to 33/66MHz increments and a chipset based on 133MHz would be far easier to design than one based on 166MHz. No doubt they could simply pull a HDT trick and de-sync the Southbridge with the memory controller altogether, but that would add cost to the system design. If they did go to 166fsb in the immediate future they'd have a 1GHz front-side bus with the 6x multiplier. 😉

On the other hand they get 800fsb by going 100MHz x 8, too. Maybe they'll step back even more than I originally contemplated and go this route. Somehow they could make the 8x multiplier into a dual-channel 4x controller to get their 400fsb and 533fsb for backwards compatibility. This way they could later introduce a 133MHz x 8 front-side bus for 1066fsb. Whoa! My head is spinning just thinking about it.
 
It seems awfully strange, considering how many problems Intel has had in the past trying to make too big of leaps in performance, to try to engineer a 200MHz front-side bus just yet.
The Itanium 2 (McKinley) currently has a (4-stub parallel) 200MHz 128-bit wide FSB.
 
Originally posted by: pm
It seems awfully strange, considering how many problems Intel has had in the past trying to make too big of leaps in performance, to try to engineer a 200MHz front-side bus just yet.
The Itanium 2 (McKinley) currently has (4-stub parallel) 200MHz 128-bit wide FSB.

gues that answer your question
 
They'd have to completley reeingeer the front side bus to do a 6 or 8 bit prefetch, and it wouldn't be compatible with current pentium4's. What they'll do is use the same quad pumped bus and up the clock to 200MHz.
 
It's........possible, but not very probably. If you want to get 6x, you'd have to find a way to get 3 whole propogations out of a signal. Not very easy to say the least. I'm still astonished that they managed to get 2 propogations out of a single side of a wave.
 
Originally posted by: imgod2u
It's........possible, but not very probably. If you want to get 6x, you'd have to find a way to get 3 whole propogations out of a signal. Not very easy to say the least. I'm still astonished that they managed to get 2 propogations out of a single side of a wave.

Isn't it just two banks with one running a quarter cycle slower?
 
Originally posted by: Sahakiel
Originally posted by: imgod2u
It's........possible, but not very probably. If you want to get 6x, you'd have to find a way to get 3 whole propogations out of a signal. Not very easy to say the least. I'm still astonished that they managed to get 2 propogations out of a single side of a wave.

Isn't it just two banks with one running a quarter cycle slower?
QBM uses 2 memory banks and delays the signal to the second bank by 90deg. The Intel FSB senses the rising edge twice.


Linky
The final case is by far the most complex to implement of the three because now the chipset must detect four different voltages. The first two occur somewhere between 0 and 1.6V on the rising edge of the clock, and the other two occur in the same range but on the falling edge. If we assume that 0 - 0.7V defines one part of the rising edge of the clock and 0.8 - 1.6V defines the other part, you can see how the signal must be fairly consistent in order to properly enable four data transfers per clock cycle. It is already difficult enough to distinguish high from low when the spread is only 1.6V wide, but trying to distinguish two different values on each edge of the clock is even worse.
 
Intel wouldn't have to redo their socket if they took the existing QDR bus and branch off from there. The internal bus of the CPU does not affect the external bus.

I know 6x sounds like it would be impossible, but it too would be an internal timing mechanism rather than an external interface. We already have 1/5x and 1/6x multipliers in the front-side bus, where the PCI timing is derived. Those aren't divisible by ^2 but nobody complains. Making an internal bus 6x the external interface wouldn't be any different.
 
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