Worth the wait? AMD

[jrphoenix]

Quick Question I was checking out the latest road-map on anandtech for AMD CPU's. I tend to stick with AMD (only bought one Intel, Pentium III 450 MHz). I am looking to spend $3,000 on an upcoming system (no time to build, I need an overhaul) so probably going with alienware...

Anyway, according to the road map: http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1985 the FX-53 should be out around May and the FX-55 soon after. (Why they release the socket 939 FX-53 two months after the socket 940 version, who knows???) Right around that time the 3800+ processor should be out with the 4000+ following soon.

Do you think the FX proc will be worth it (out perform seriously) the regular 3800 / 4000 procs? I know the 3400 is a much better buy than the FX-51... what do you think in terms of these future versions?

I hope the PCI-Express motherboards will be out around this time (May / June)?

Thanks,
James

 

[myocardia]

No, the FX-any number doesn't perform nearly as well on a price-to-performance ratio as a "normal" Athlon64. The only difference in the two chips is that the FX's have dual-channel memory and an unlocked multiplier. They are really made for the people who are extreme overclockers, and just barely outperform a socket 754 Athlon64 that runs at the same speed. And you should be able to get a PCI express motherboard by May or June, but only if you buy it yourself. Pre-built systems are never up-to-date enough to have something that new, when it's only been out for weeks. BTW, Alienware is really the best pre-built computer on earth, so I think you will be happy with one, whether you wait 3 months, or order one today.

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: myocardia
No, the FX-any number doesn't perform nearly as well on a price-to-performance ratio as a "normal" Athlon64. The only difference in the two chips is that the FX's have dual-channel memory and an unlocked multiplier. They are really made for the people who are extreme overclockers, and just barely outperform a socket 754 Athlon64 that runs at the same speed. And you should be able to get a PCI express motherboard by May or June, but only if you buy it yourself. Pre-built systems are never up-to-date enough to have something that new, when it's only been out for weeks. BTW, Alienware is really the best pre-built computer on earth, so I think you will be happy with one, whether you wait 3 months, or order one today.

Isn't it true that the new 3800+ / 4000+ are supposed to be dual-channel memory compatiable? I just can't see what the benefit will be (other than the unlocked multiplier) for the FX.... thank you for the response & suggestion on Alienware.

 

[klah]

S939 cpus will be have dual-channel memory controllers, and probably 1GHz HT bus.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: klah
S939 cpus will be have dual-channel memory controllers, and probably 1GHz HT bus.

My point, though, was that if you don't upgrade a computer, just because there is something new just around the corner, you're typing these responses from a 486DX that's running Windows 3.1. By the time that the motherboards with PCI express and DDR2 support come out, there is going to be 15 other things that sound good to have, that the manufacturers will be promising to have out in the next 6 months. See my point?

 

[Jeff7181]

I'd wait for socket 939 and see what performance is like between the two models. It looks like the FX line will have 1 MB cache while the regular A64 line will be reduced to 512 Kb. The performance difference might be very small running 32-bit software, but as I've said many times before, 64-bit code naturally has more bulk, and will use more cache memory. It'll be a while (I'd say 2005) before a large amount of 64-bit software is on shelves, so if you're like me and don't normally keep a CPU for longer than a year, I'd say wait for socket 939 and get a dual channel A64 with 512 Kb L2 cache. Then next year when you upgrade again, you might want to move up to the FX line (when the slower models come down in price also) with a full MB of L2 cache to help 64-bit software run better.

Also, I bet it will take some time for 64-bit drivers to mature and become as reliable and efficient as our current 32-bit drivers... so I really don't see any reason to jump head first into 64-bit computing as soon as it's available. The A64's are extremely well suited for running 32-bit apps, think of the 64-bit aspect as a little bit of future proofing if you intend to keep your A64 for longer than a year.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
I'd wait for socket 939 and see what performance is like between the two models. It looks like the FX line will have 1 MB cache while the regular A64 line will be reduced to 512 Kb. The performance difference might be very small running 32-bit software, but as I've said many times before, 64-bit code naturally has more bulk, and will use more cache memory. It'll be a while (I'd say 2005) before a large amount of 64-bit software is on shelves, so if you're like me and don't normally keep a CPU for longer than a year, I'd say wait for socket 939 and get a dual channel A64 with 512 Kb L2 cache. Then next year when you upgrade again, you might want to move up to the FX line (when the slower models come down in price also) with a full MB of L2 cache to help 64-bit software run better.

Also, I bet it will take some time for 64-bit drivers to mature and become as reliable and efficient as our current 32-bit drivers... so I really don't see any reason to jump head first into 64-bit computing as soon as it's available. The A64's are extremely well suited for running 32-bit apps, think of the 64-bit aspect as a little bit of future proofing if you intend to keep your A64 for longer than a year.

Every socket 754 chip made has 1MB L2 cache, except the A64 3000. That's why they are between 95-100% as fast as an FX51, when running at the same speed (i.e.-- the 3400). So, he'd be better off getting a socket 754 chip now, so he would have 1MB of L2 cache until he decides to upgrade to an FX51, if he ever does. But, you're definitely right about the 64-bit software. It will be at least 12 months, and probably longer, before 64-bit is widespread enough to warrant switching your OS and buying the 64-bit version of whatever software can take advantage of it.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
I'd wait for socket 939 and see what performance is like between the two models. It looks like the FX line will have 1 MB cache while the regular A64 line will be reduced to 512 Kb. The performance difference might be very small running 32-bit software, but as I've said many times before, 64-bit code naturally has more bulk, and will use more cache memory. It'll be a while (I'd say 2005) before a large amount of 64-bit software is on shelves, so if you're like me and don't normally keep a CPU for longer than a year, I'd say wait for socket 939 and get a dual channel A64 with 512 Kb L2 cache. Then next year when you upgrade again, you might want to move up to the FX line (when the slower models come down in price also) with a full MB of L2 cache to help 64-bit software run better.

Also, I bet it will take some time for 64-bit drivers to mature and become as reliable and efficient as our current 32-bit drivers... so I really don't see any reason to jump head first into 64-bit computing as soon as it's available. The A64's are extremely well suited for running 32-bit apps, think of the 64-bit aspect as a little bit of future proofing if you intend to keep your A64 for longer than a year.

Every socket 754 chip made has 1MB L2 cache, except the A64 3000. That's why they are between 95-100% as fast as an FX51, when running at the same speed (i.e.-- the 3400). So, he'd be better off getting a socket 754 chip now, so he would have 1MB of L2 cache until he decides to upgrade to an FX51, if he ever does. But, you're definitely right about the 64-bit software. It will be at least 12 months, and probably longer, before 64-bit is widespread enough to warrant switching your OS and buying the 64-bit version of whatever software can take advantage of it.

I never said otherwise... what I said was wait for socket 939 which will include dual memory controllers, which will probably negate most of the performance loss from having only 512 Kb cache (at the same clock speed)... since only the FX line of socket 939 processors will have a 1 MB L2 cache.

 

[deadseasquirrel]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
I'd wait for socket 939 and see what performance is like between the two models. It looks like the FX line will have 1 MB cache while the regular A64 line will be reduced to 512 Kb. The performance difference might be very small running 32-bit software, but as I've said many times before, 64-bit code naturally has more bulk, and will use more cache memory. It'll be a while (I'd say 2005) before a large amount of 64-bit software is on shelves, so if you're like me and don't normally keep a CPU for longer than a year, I'd say wait for socket 939 and get a dual channel A64 with 512 Kb L2 cache. Then next year when you upgrade again, you might want to move up to the FX line (when the slower models come down in price also) with a full MB of L2 cache to help 64-bit software run better.

Every socket 754 chip made has 1MB L2 cache, except the A64 3000. That's why they are between 95-100% as fast as an FX51, when running at the same speed (i.e.-- the 3400). So, he'd be better off getting a socket 754 chip now, so he would have 1MB of L2 cache until he decides to upgrade to an FX51, if he ever does.

I never said otherwise... what I said was wait for socket 939 which will include dual memory controllers, which will probably negate most of the performance loss from having only 512 Kb cache (at the same clock speed)... since only the FX line of socket 939 processors will have a 1 MB L2 cache.

I agree about waiting til 939. Don't get me wrong, the 754 is a great chip. But the long-term upgrade path of the 939 is worth waiting for. Being able to pick up an A64 3500+ in a few months and then upgrade that a year later to an FX without changing motherboards is very nice. A similar upgrade path doesn't exist on the 754 front from what we've been told so far.

 

[SilverBack]

One word WAIT
If you really plan on spending $3000

In less than 3 or 4 months the following will change for new systems.

CPU's 939 AMD and 755 Intel
DDR2 memory
PCI express video cards
BTX Cases
2nd gen SATA drives

OMG I have to spend a lot this year!!!

If you buy right now, everything will most likely be unworkable next year in new highend systems.

 

[Zebo]

If you plan on spending 3k is stupid spend it now for the reasons the gorilla above me suggests. Now is the time to buy very muture read stable but soon to be slower components for pennys on the dollar and build your own. No time? Unless you make $900 an hour it's worth your time to mosy over to newegg order rock solid components and spend the hour assembling.

 

[mechBgon]

Yeah, it's not like building a PC from components is a marathon-caliber project. Unpack stuff, gloat a little, locate favorite #2 Phillips screwdriver, assemble, enjoy a beverage & snack while admiring assembled hardware, install OS, and wrap it up.

 

[Jeff7181]

In addition to my last post... the memory bandwidth limitation of socket 754 will only become more of an issue as clock speed increases.

 

[joe2004]

3400+ is absolutely better buy than FX-51. But the current chips are limited as far handling of memory is concerned. I am waiting the new CG stepping, hopefully it also overclocks better.
Intel is a no-no for me in the current situation with power consumption and heat related problems. Talking about Prescott. So I would wait just a little for CG stepping of 3400+.

 

[Zebo]

Great thing about aleinware is they have already done the testing of the best components for you being the high-end maker they are... and they are kind enough to tell you which components you need to order for this "dream system" in thier configuation scripts. Compare please. Only thing is you won't get that god aweful case they sell.

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: SilverBack
One word WAIT
If you really plan on spending $3000

In less than 3 or 4 months the following will change for new systems.

CPU's 939 AMD and 755 Intel
DDR2 memory
PCI express video cards
BTX Cases
2nd gen SATA drives

OMG I have to spend a lot this year!!!

If you buy right now, everything will most likely be unworkable next year in new highend systems.

Definately good advice... I think most of these changes will be out by the middle of the year? (May / June). I bought the monitor I wanted about six months ago (Samsung 213 t). This is an awesome 1600X1200 monitor. My system is "OK" for now but I definately need an overhaul soon.. this summer. Let's hope there are no hold ups on this technology reaching the distributers! Thanks,

James

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Great thing about aleinware is they have already done the testing of the best components for you being the high-end maker they are... and they are kind enough to tell you which components you need to order for this "dream system" in thier configuation scripts. Compare please. Only thing is you won't get that god aweful case they sell.

I considered building my own... limited knowledge (done it a couple of times, took hours). I would probably have no problems with it, just thought with the high end components I want, time commitment, and new tech (raid O) that I hadn't done... it might be easier to buy from an OEM.

Definately didn't want to do a dell, gateway, etc... Alienware seems to pack the most bang for the buck with there high end systems. The case is "interesting".... not my top pick... but seems like a solid company.

Thanks for the input!
James

 

[Zebo]

Nothing wrong with that

...a couple other good makers are voodoo, gamepc and falcon northwest.. It's worth comparing prices nevertheless..

My first box was a voodooo and the owner even chats in his forum with the customers and called me at home to make sure everything was a ok...Best service and support ever

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Nothing wrong with that

...a couple other good makers are voodoo, gamepc and falcon northwest.. It's worth comparing prices nevertheless..

My first box was a voodooo and the owner even chats in his forum with the customers and called me at home to make sure everything was a ok...Best service and support ever

If you are going to spend $3,000 on a computer, Jr, don't give your money to anyone except Alienware or Falcon Northwest. There are no other builders that even come close to their level of quality and quality of components.

 

[SilverBack]

If you are going to spend $3,000 on a computer, Jr, don't give your money to anyone except Alienware or Falcon Northwest.

myocardia
I resent that statement

I've been building systems for about 12 years.
Although to be truthful I haven't been asked to build a system for more than $2000 in well over three years.
He could buy a VERY good system here....
I know these guys and they make some kick ass machines to your specs and they back them up.
Kyle, the owner, is a friend of mine. He's been supplying the modded PC's to many of the major gaming LAN's around the midwest this year.
AAC has been mentioned several times on THG for doing exactly just that.

Alienware or Falcon Northwest both want more money just for thier name.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: SilverBack

If you are going to spend $3,000 on a computer, Jr, don't give your money to anyone except Alienware or Falcon Northwest.

myocardia
I resent that statement

I've been building systems for about 12 years.
Although to be truthful I haven't been asked to build a system for more than $2000 in well over three years.
He could buy a VERY good system here....
I know these guys and they make some kick ass machines to your specs and they back them up.
Kyle, the owner, is a friend of mine. He's been supplying the modded PC's to many of the major gaming LAN's around the midwest this year.
AAC has been mentioned several times on THG for doing exactly just that.

Alienware or Falcon Northwest both want more money just for thier name.

Yeah well, I could build him a better system for less myself, what's your point? I'm sure there are a couple of hundred small-time computer assemblers in the US. But, to get more or less the same system as what he would get at Alienware or Falcon, he'd still have to spend over $3,000 at your link. Besides, why would anyone want to recommend a site that THG recommends?

 

[jrphoenix]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful info. I am definately going to wait for the socket 939 platform to come out. Does anyone know if the 939 is going to be ATX / BTX motherboards?

James

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: jrphoenix
Thanks to everyone for the helpful info. I am definately going to wait for the socket 939 platform to come out. Does anyone know if the 939 is going to be ATX / BTX motherboards?

James

I may have answered my own question by going over to the inquirer: Article ATX BTX. It looks like Intel is pushing BTX because their chips are to da*mn hot. I imagine the overhaul to move to BTX is an expense Intel is pushing?

Does AMD have plans to move to the BTX platform that you know of? If so when?