Worth it to upgrade from Opteron 146 to 165 for primarily gaming?

[duragezic]

I've been contemplating the $100 Opteron 165 @ Newegg for a while now. I currently have:

Epox 9NPA3 Ultra (nForce 4 Ultra)
Opteron 146 @ ~2.4ghz, 1.4 V w/ AMD stock heatpipe hsf
4x512mb PC3200 DDR; dual-channel, 2T (auto/slow timings because of varied sticks)
eVGA 7800GT overclocked almost 5% over stock 445/1070


I'm beginning to notice games like RB6 Vegas, STALKER, Oblivion, etc struggle to run at 1680x1050, if at all. Older games like BF2, HL2/Source, and Guild Wars are all fine at 1680x1050 with some AA/AF. So, my motivation for upgrading is mostly with games.

If I were to get the Opteron 165, I'd want to reach at least my current 146 o/c of 2.4+ GHz. I'm still not seeing many benchmarks showing much improved game performance with 1 vs. 2 cores, with the exception of a few like Quake 4 (which I don't play). Has this changed at all? There is no guarantee I will reach 2.5 GHz with a 165, though it seems likely, and could go higher than my 146 will go. OTOH, some games, like Shadowrun, and in the future like Crysis, HL2:Ep2, UT3, etc are going to almost require a dual core. So I figure the 165 won't drop in price much more as supply lowers, so if I am to keep this 939 system, it seems to be the best choice as far as price/performance.

Also, from other FS/FT threads, it is likely I can get maybe a measly $35-40 profit from selling my 146. So for about $60, I'd have an extra core at hopefully the same clock speed. Yet if I got a dud overclocker, I'd likely see lower performance until dual core optimized games are more standard.

At my native resolution, is this worth it? Any recent benchmarks or lists of dual core optimized games? Also, is my native resolution too high to see much gains from any CPU? I've been looking at video cards, but the 8800GTS 320mb seems kinda flaky with some games (outperformed by 256mb cards? driver issue?), and the 640MB is too expensive at this point. I figure I'd get about $65 for my 7800GT on FS/FT.


or ditch and go to C2D?
Lastly, what about ditching 939 and going C2D? A quick check shows:

E4300 $120 (though I'd get whatever C2D is cheapest but known to overclock to perform around E6400 levels or so)
2x1GB DDR2-800 RAM $75 (depending deals)
Gigabyte DS3 $120 (eVGA 680i is very expensive, is this DS3 the best but cheap overclocking board?)
Artic Cooling 7 or similar $35 (would probably try w/ stock hsf first. If I hit 2.5 GHz+ on stock, I'd hold off on a aftermarket hsf)

+ shipping == $350

So for roughly the price of a 640mb 8800GTS, I could get an entire C2D setup. Also, I figure I could get $100 for my 146 + mobo, and about $80-90 for my 4x512mb PC3200, so I'd only pay about $175 for a C2D setup, assuming my old parts sell of course. And I'd STILL be stuck with my 7800GT. The thing about the C2D path is I'd be unlikely to be able to afford a 8800 or similar for quite a while. With the Opty 165 upgrade, it is likely that within 2-3 months, prices will have dropped and I could have a 165 & a 8800 or similar.

 

[f4phantom2500]

another option is ditching and going am2, similar to your "ditch and go to c2d" idea, only:

brisbane 3600: $60 (really really good chance of getting into the high 2ghz range, possibly 3; i have a freezer 64 pro, got mine to 2.85ghz with 1.4v pretty effortlessly)
2x1gb ddr2-800 ram: $75 (yeah, you already know)
dfi infinity nf ultraii-m2: $70 (really good features and overclocking ability)
freezer 64 pro or similar: $20~$30

+ shipping ~~ $225

sell off your 2gb of ddr ram and your other 939 stuff and it shouldn't end up costing you too much.

of course the opty 165 will probably overclock pretty well, see what people have been saying about them lately at newegg and go off of that.

 

[imported_Dekard]

You'd be best with the c2d setup, its such a massive upgrade processor wise you'd really notice it on the day to day stuff and the games. Keep the current video card for the moment and you'll still see a boost in speeds since the opteron is almost certainly capping your 7800's performance.

 

[Cybercraig]

Get a big honking DX-10 Vid card if you're a gamer. A single core Opty at 2.4 is plenty fast enough. A better card will make much more difference in gaming than a faster CPU. Plus, you can transfer that new card to your next machine. You'll be transfering the rest of your components to E-Bay.

 

[aigomorla]

normally op i would say its not a good upgrade, However, seeing how your on a single core now, and a dual core is only a 100 dollar upgrade, i would say go for it.

When you play games a C2D vs an AMD, you wont see very much big of a difference, unless you play a monster game like Supreme Commander.

And chances are if thats the case, a Video card upgrade might be a better soltuion then everything.


So i would say its definitely a worth while upgrade in your case, because your not jumping dualcore AMD to faster dualcore AMD.

 

[duragezic]

Ahh... thanks for the opinions. That still leaves me undecided though!

The AM2 idea is okay, as it is quite cheap, but it seems I would have a slightly better chance of reaching a high overclock with a Brisbane, as opposed to a 165, but for much more money. Unless I'm wrong, I don't think the AM2 socket and DDR2 memory provides much benefits; it's just the 60nm chip is more likely to overclock higher.

I'm leaning towards the 165.. I just hope I reach the kind of overclocks everyone seems to get. I rarely ever get the kind of overclocks everyone talks about that are "100% 24/7 stable". The reviews on Newegg and on here about the stepping that most of the recent 165s are seem to indicate as low as 2.5 GHz and as high as 2.9 GHz. Somewhere between there would be good if I could reach that.

I guess I'll consider these options some more... but right now I'm leaning towards the cheap & simple opty 165, and keep an eye out for hot deal on a 8800GTS 320 or 640mb.

 

[nyker96]

forget opty 165, it's like 100 bucks for that money get yourself a E4300 overclock it and it'll be like 15-20% faster clock for clock on games. If your chip does 3Ghz it'll be like 3.5Ghz opty 165 in gamez. Don't think you gonna get that type of performance with opty.

 

[duragezic]

A cheap C2D like the E4300 would most definitely be faster, and 2.8+ GHz seems quite likely, but it would cost much more money since I'd need a motherboard and DDR2. The C2D motherboards are very expensive! Even the DS3 is $120... and I'm not sure how much I need to spend for a decent but budget overclocking mobo. What's with the number of different chipsets for the C2D? G965, P965, 945P, P35, 650i, 680i, X38... wtf!

You know, I'd really like a C2D...but besides the cost, if I went to a C2D setup, it is likely I'd not have enough money for a video card anytime soon. I think that is more important. Consider these numbers (grabbed from some other thread):

FEAR @ 1280x1024 4xAA 16xAF
x2 3800+...........72
C2D 6600..........81

1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF
x2 3800+...........58
C2D 6600..........60


Since I play at 1680x1050, I would be close to the 1600x1200 numbers. Though I don't play FEAR, and it is likely that other games are more CPU-bound, like HL2/Source, but that already runs fine.

Bah, this is difficult to decide. I don't have the $$$ to get what I want, as is always the case. I reads of conflicting opinions like "don't bother with 939; don't bother with AM2; your videocard is fine,get C2D; forget C2D since videocard will be much more important, etc etc"


1) Get the 165 now for $100 - 35 (est. selling 146) = $65. Then wait a month or two for a < $300 8800GTS 640mb, for a cost of $300 - $75 (est. selling 7800gt) = $225. Total = $290.

2) Get the C2D setup, possibly waiting till July price cuts. Low end chips like the E4300 might not drop much at all, and doubtful the motherboards will much. I'd estimate up to $375 for cheap C2D, 2gb DDR2, good overclocking motherboard, and possibly a hsf. I don't think I'd get anymore than $175 for my 146 + mobo + 4x512mb PC3200. Total = $200+.


So I guess the C2D would be cheaper, but I'd be stuck with the 7800gt for who knows how long (6+ months?). Take RB6:Vegas, for example. I had to run that hog at 1024x768 to get playable framerates! At that resolution, a C2D would probably be significantly faster, but as soon as I hit 1280x1024+, the 7800gt would be the big bottleneck. Using RB6 Vegas as an example, I would think a ~2.6+ Ghz X2 + 8800GTS would run 1680x1050 better than a 2.8+ Ghz C2D + 7800gt. That's just a guess, and I'm not sure how other games would play. I know for sure I'll want to be able to play Crysis at a decent resolution with whatever I upgrade to.

As for AM2... I guess for a net cost I might only pay $75 or so, but DDR2 and AM2 don't really provide any performance improvement. Though I guess a 939 Opty or a cheap AM2 both rely on a high overclock to make them worth it.

 

[nyker96]

If you buying on a budget then I think 165+8800 is probably gonna be more bang for the $.

 

[bryanW1995]

I'd get the c2d. I've had a nightmare upgrading to an opteron 180 as a temporary fix for my computer. I fried my old mobo AND psu and would have spent 10 days without a computer if I didn't have the "file server" fx55 in my wife's office. I closed the door when she would yell too much about wanting her computer back. Anyway, I tried to rma the opty but hit it at day #8 so no luck. Finally got another cheap mobo and replacement psu and everything is happy now, but for how long? If you get the c2d then you probably won't see as much improvement in high-end graphics as you would like in the short term, but in the medium-long term you will be much better off because of the great platform you're on. 50+ % oc is a slam dunk with low end c2d's, and you have a fantastic upgrade path to a quad core in a couple years if necessary. Also, you will probably be able to get a much better graphics card at a reasonable price in 6 months since the 2nd gen dx10 cards should be out by then.

 

[harpoon84]

While a few of the games you listed are multithreaded (R6V, Oblivion) you are currently so GPU limited that upgrading to a dual core CPU will hardly have an impact on performance.

You have the upgrade prioritys wrong atm, since your GPU is the weakest link I would suggest a 8800GTS 320/640 upgrade first and *then* a CPU upgrade once you can afford it.

 

[ShreddedWheat]

I just made the move from an opteron 146 (@ 2.74) to a x2 3800+ (@ 2.35) and have a x800xt vid card. If I was going to do it all over again I would have spent the money to get a 8800GTS (though in your case at that rez I would go for the larger memory). I have noticed no difference in games at the moment with the dual core.

Bump to harpoon.....first vid card then opteron 165 or better they will drop more in price. You can then carry the vid card to next system. Which at that time I wouldn't hesitate to go with C2D.

I would imagine that your 7800 is maxed out anyways for the most part with your current cpu.

My 2 cents

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: harpoon84
While a few of the games you listed are multithreaded (R6V, Oblivion) you are currently so GPU limited that upgrading to a dual core CPU will hardly have an impact on performance.

You have the upgrade prioritys wrong atm, since your GPU is the weakest link I would suggest a 8800GTS 320/640 upgrade first and *then* a CPU upgrade once you can afford it.

QFT.

Especially at the resolution you're running, the 7800GT is your weak link. I was running a 7800 and upgraded from a 3700+ (at 2.7ghz) to my OC'd opty 175, and noticed virtually no difference in either direction for Oblivion and fear.

Also, I don't think you can realistically expect to get 400Mhz overclock out of 4x512MB dimms of varying manufacture. Big opteron OC's come from a combination of stepping, motherboard and memory. Your memory is going to keep you from getting very far. You can use an aggressive divider and definitely squeeze some extra out, but you don't have an optimized overclocking setup.

I know how it feels to be itching for an upgrade, but I would save your money until you can afford an 8800GTS 640. The bonus is that you'll be able to transfer the video card between systems, so when you're ready to build your quad-core 4-gig DDR2 intel setup in six or eight months the parts will be dirt cheap and you'll already have the video card. I think in that case you would notice the difference in CPU/memory platform for gaming, but not at the moment with your 7800GT.