I agree, and if you look him up on the Marine Corps site, so does the Commandant of the Marine Corps.
Since the Navy retired the Iowas, we have had basically zero naval surface fire support. So if the Marines wanted to land forcibly on a well-defended coast, they probably couldn't, or at best it would cost far more than if we had battleships to provide fire support.
The guns as they are can fire 20+ miles, there have been test of sub-caliber 11" rounds that could fire out to 40+ miles, and there are plans for a scramjet shell that could go hundreds of miles.
Plus, no other Navy ship could sit close to shore and not worry much about hostile fire like the Iowas.
People say they're obsolete, but since they've been sitting for most of their lives, they have 30+ years of active service left in them. Plus, obsolete or not, there is no substitute in the fleet for them, and no prospect of having any replacement for them in the next 10+ years.
Not to mention that they just look badass, and are perfect for parking off the coast of any future beligerents as a way of calming things down.
Yes, New Jersey and Missouri, but Iowa and Wisconsin are both on Category B inactive reserve, the interiors are sealed and dehumidified. Category B supposedly means that they can be reactivated in 6 months.
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
A few U-boats are much different than an invasion fleet. The Germans at no point could ever have mounted an invasion of the United States. Too much water and not enough navy.....and too much of the US Navy.Originally posted by: Sysadmin
Umm I hate to burst your bubble but U-Boats patrolled right up to the eastern Coast of America. In fact, there is tons of archive footage of uboats taking pictures of the New York skyline through their periscopeOur problem was we were to arrogant to believe that we could even be touched by the enemy on our home land (Does 9-11 ring a bell on this also). If it was not for the invention of sonar ,the U-boats could have possibly single handly won the war for Germany.
Sysadmin
I never claimed they could have. Before the invention of sonar pre '43, the Uboats ruled the Atlantic and damn near brought Great Britain to it's knees by choking off the importation of goods from the U.S.
Sysadmin
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
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Supposedly, the manpower requirements for the ships are huge. I think that was one of the main considerations, along with the cost to update them again, in putting them into reserve.
They are very formidable ships. Heavy armor, big guns, 30+ knots sustained speed, and can carry enough missiles to ruin anyone?s day. I remember reading that the Iowas are so well armored that even modern anti-ship missiles would have trouble disabling one.
Personally, I think they should find a way to mount some big rail guns in place of the 16s. Now that would be great.
Germany had the resources available to hit, it just didn't have as much of it (time, manpower, raw materials) as the US.
The V2 were getting quite reliable (this is a relative term) by wars end. Intercontenintal missles were planned, but still some time off (V4 I think?)
However, Germany had already built a prototype Amerika Bomber which would have been capable of delivering the Nazi A-Bomb to New York or Washington. It was even reported to have flown all the way to the coast of the US and back as a proof of concept, but it is argued by some as to whether it actually happened or not.
As for the Invasion of the US, it would have without a doubt been a massive undertaking and would have taken years to pull off. They quite simply lacked enough vessels to do it let alone field an occupying army of sufficent size. The Kriegsmarine would have largely relied on captured British ships... which obviously didn't happen. They would have required Japans assistance to pull it off and have them come ashore on the West coast of North America while Nazi Troops took the east.
I can't imagine how viscious it would have been. There would have been Guerrilla US and Canadian troops fighting in the forests for years.
Exactly, not to mention the US has the most battle ready (and Willing) citizens in the world. They would have exactly what the Brits had in 1776, Joe Schmo taking pot shots from his basment window. They would have never made it past the Bronx, The South, Texas, Great Divide, LA, etc etc.
These unrealists think technology is the only thing that wins wars, well you need a population to drive them and while they might have conqured all of Europe they would have had constant resistance from within and could not have placed a big army on boats and just sent them over.
Sonar was invented in the 30's, and wasn't the main reason the U-boats were defeated. Convoys were the main reason. Sonar helped, but England already had that before the war ever started. In fact, it was thought that the U-boats would never again be the threat that they were in WWI because of the invention of sonar......how wrong they were.Originally posted by: Sysadmin
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
A few U-boats are much different than an invasion fleet. The Germans at no point could ever have mounted an invasion of the United States. Too much water and not enough navy.....and too much of the US Navy.Originally posted by: Sysadmin
Umm I hate to burst your bubble but U-Boats patrolled right up to the eastern Coast of America. In fact, there is tons of archive footage of uboats taking pictures of the New York skyline through their periscope
Sysadmin
I never claimed they could have. Before the invention of sonar pre '43, the Uboats ruled the Atlantic and damn near brought Great Britain to it's knees by choking off the importation of goods from the U.S.
Sysadmin
You are right about one thing: England was down to a few week's supplies at one point because of their slowness to implement the convoy system.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 46,046
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Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Sonar was invented in the 30's, and wasn't the main reason the U-boats were defeated. Convoys were the main reason. Sonar helped, but England already had that before the war ever started. In fact, it was thought that the U-boats would never again be the threat that they were in WWI because of the invention of sonar......how wrong they were.Originally posted by: Sysadmin
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
A few U-boats are much different than an invasion fleet. The Germans at no point could ever have mounted an invasion of the United States. Too much water and not enough navy.....and too much of the US Navy.Originally posted by: Sysadmin
Umm I hate to burst your bubble but U-Boats patrolled right up to the eastern Coast of America. In fact, there is tons of archive footage of uboats taking pictures of the New York skyline through their periscope
Sysadmin
I never claimed they could have. Before the invention of sonar pre '43, the Uboats ruled the Atlantic and damn near brought Great Britain to it's knees by choking off the importation of goods from the U.S.
Sysadmin
You are right about one thing: England was down to a few week's supplies at one point because of their slowness to implement the convoy system.
I would add radar as equally important. Since U-boats had to chase convoys on the surface before submerging to attack. Radar also pretty much ended surfaced attacks on convoys.
except for the whole Lend-lease program . . . you know, the thousands of US and British built aircraft flying around with red stars on them. And food. And bullets. And machine guns.
The soviets would have crumpled when the Germans pushed them to stalingrad had it not been for the continuous flow of supplies from the west.
Russian Winter > Hitlers Army
US and the British didn't supply their winter, it did that on it's own, so that would have not changed.
US and the British didn't supply their winter, it did that on it's own, so that would have not changed.
rudder
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
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Originally posted by: nick1985
the jet engine was first designed in 1930. the germans perhaps didnt fly a warplane with a jet engine in it until 1939, but they sure as sh!t had jet technology before then. regardless....they germans made dumb mistakes
I don't think it was necessarily a dumb mistake to not develop a jet fighter in the early thirties. Jet technology then was useless because they did not have access to exotic metals. The jets on the me262 only had an operation life of about 25 hours. They could have built the me262 in large numbers and within a couple of months they would have all been grounded with burnt out engines. The p51 was just an exceptional airplane and the german engineers could not come up with anything to match its capabilities at the time.
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