World champion harvard debate team loses to a bunch of prison inmates

[HumblePie]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/living/harvard-debate-team-loses-to-prison-inmates-feat/

Too funny!

 

[rpanic]

Any video of the debate?

 

[soulcougher73]

yeah id love to see the video if there is one. Be interesting.

 

[trenchfoot]

It's my considered opinion that crimes of passion and greed knows no bounds. The brightest of us are just as capable of committing those same crimes that the dimmest of us are capable of.

Ergo, I can easily see a very intelligent person enraged by an adulterous spouse as one similarly enraged who never had any formal education. Or a Wall Streeter smitten with the idea that insider trading is worth the risk compared with an ex-Wall Streeter that succumbed to drugs, or alcohol and lost all possessions and then while under the influence committed a hit and run or a drug buy/bust.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/living/harvard-debate-team-loses-to-prison-inmates-feat/

Too funny!

Not so funny when you realize why these things are happening:

http://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...-debate-white-privilege/360746/#disqus_thread

These days, an increasingly diverse group of participants has transformed debate competitions, mounting challenges to traditional form and content by incorporating personal experience, performance, and radical politics. These “alternative-style” debaters have achieved success, too, taking top honors at national collegiate tournaments over the past few years.

But this transformation has also sparked a difficult, often painful controversy for a community that prides itself on handling volatile topics.

On March 24, 2014 at the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA) Championships at Indiana University, two Towson University students, Ameena Ruffin and Korey Johnson, became the first African-American women to win a national college debate tournament, for which the resolution asked whether the U.S. president’s war powers should be restricted. Rather than address the resolution straight on, Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise. The more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities.

Now I may be an old fart at the rusty ol' age of 27... but I don't think changing the subject is how you debate

 

[MagickMan]

That's awesome, great program they have there. Not to take away from the inmates' success, it's amazing. It does show how lacking Millennials are in terms of common sense and reason, though. Looking a the ages, it appeared to be Millennials vs Gen Xers and Baby Boomers, and that's an important factor.

 

[HumblePie]

Not so funny when you realize why these things are happening:

http://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...-debate-white-privilege/360746/#disqus_thread



Now I may be an old fart at the rusty ol' age of 27... but I don't think changing the subject is how you debate

I don't know about that specific debate and how the outcome was judged, but using personal experiences has ALWAYS been an advantage in a debate. It is nothing new.

 

[DrPizza]

I think just as importantly, "The Bard Prison Initiative, which has 300 students enrolled across New York state, reports that less than 2% of its formerly imprisoned students return to prison. By comparison, nearly 68 out of every 100 prisoners across the country are rearrested within three years of release, with more than half returning to prison."

A program that helps decrease recidivism? We need more programs like that, instead of the typical American attitude of make their lives miserable for 3-5 years, because that attitude leads to more crime on those innocent Americans who aren't in prison 3-5 years later.

 

[Brainonska511]

I think just as importantly, "The Bard Prison Initiative, which has 300 students enrolled across New York state, reports that less than 2% of its formerly imprisoned students return to prison. By comparison, nearly 68 out of every 100 prisoners across the country are rearrested within three years of release, with more than half returning to prison."

A program that helps decrease recidivism? We need more programs like that, instead of the typical American attitude of make their lives miserable for 3-5 years, because that attitude leads to more crime on those innocent Americans who aren't in prison 3-5 years later.

There was a push to expand such programs in NY last year, but there was a lot of push back because idiots see it as "rewarding" prisoners.

 

[Brian Stirling]

I think just as importantly, "The Bard Prison Initiative, which has 300 students enrolled across New York state, reports that less than 2% of its formerly imprisoned students return to prison. By comparison, nearly 68 out of every 100 prisoners across the country are rearrested within three years of release, with more than half returning to prison."

A program that helps decrease recidivism? We need more programs like that, instead of the typical American attitude of make their lives miserable for 3-5 years, because that attitude leads to more crime on those innocent Americans who aren't in prison 3-5 years later.

Sadly this is reviewed by bean counter types that argue we shouldn't be spending more money on bad people but fail to account for the vastly greater cost required to house prisoners when they go back to prison.

You'll not get any support from righties and too many on the left are afraid of being labeled "soft on crime" by there righty challengers.

So ... nothing changes...


Brian

 

[shira]

I think just as importantly, "The Bard Prison Initiative, which has 300 students enrolled across New York state, reports that less than 2% of its formerly imprisoned students return to prison. By comparison, nearly 68 out of every 100 prisoners across the country are rearrested within three years of release, with more than half returning to prison."

A program that helps decrease recidivism? We need more programs like that, instead of the typical American attitude of make their lives miserable for 3-5 years, because that attitude leads to more crime on those innocent Americans who aren't in prison 3-5 years later.

I don't know any details about this program, but I think it's very draw an erroneous cause-and-effect conclusion from the information above. I mean, unless the 300 prisoners in this program were randomly assigned to it from among the entire prison population eligible for parole, the 2% recidivism rate can easily be explained by just assuming that the type of prisoners who enroll in this program are already the least likely to relapse into crime.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I think just as importantly, "The Bard Prison Initiative, which has 300 students enrolled across New York state, reports that less than 2% of its formerly imprisoned students return to prison. By comparison, nearly 68 out of every 100 prisoners across the country are rearrested within three years of release, with more than half returning to prison."

A program that helps decrease recidivism? We need more programs like that, instead of the typical American attitude of make their lives miserable for 3-5 years, because that attitude leads to more crime on those innocent Americans who aren't in prison 3-5 years later.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[JEDIYoda]

I don't know any details about this program, <-- exactly you don`t know!!but I think it's very draw an erroneous cause-and-effect conclusion from the information above. I mean, unless the 300 prisoners in this program were randomly assigned to it from among the entire prison population eligible for parole, the 2% recidivism rate can easily be explained by just assuming that the type of prisoners who enroll in this program are already the least likely to relapse into crime.<-- Just looking for ways to tear what was said apart.....that's what is wrong with these forums these days!! Too many people out to rip apart something that is good!!

Peace!!

 

[PokerGuy]

I don't know any details about this program, but I think it's very draw an erroneous cause-and-effect conclusion from the information above. I mean, unless the 300 prisoners in this program were randomly assigned to it from among the entire prison population eligible for parole, the 2% recidivism rate can easily be explained by just assuming that the type of prisoners who enroll in this program are already the least likely to relapse into crime.

Agreed. To decide if we need more such programs and to evaluate their cost / benefit, we'd have to know about the correlation/causation and whether it's actually the program that drives the results. It could just as easily be that those who choose to participate in such a program are that ones that are not likely to re-offend.

 

[1prophet]

I don't know any details about this program, but I think it's very draw an erroneous cause-and-effect conclusion from the information above. I mean, unless the 300 prisoners in this program were randomly assigned to it from among the entire prison population eligible for parole, the 2% recidivism rate can easily be explained by just assuming that the type of prisoners who enroll in this program are already the least likely to relapse into crime.

shira[/B]
I don't know any details about this program, <-- exactly you don`t know!!but I think it's very draw an erroneous cause-and-effect conclusion from the information above. I mean, unless the 300 prisoners in this program were randomly assigned to it from among the entire prison population eligible for parole, the 2% recidivism rate can easily be explained by just assuming that the type of prisoners who enroll in this program are already the least likely to relapse into crime.<-- Just looking for ways to tear what was said apart.....that's what is wrong with these forums these days!! Too many people out to rip apart something that is good!!
]Peace!!

 

[OverVolt]

I think just as importantly, "The Bard Prison Initiative, which has 300 students enrolled across New York state, reports that less than 2% of its formerly imprisoned students return to prison. By comparison, nearly 68 out of every 100 prisoners across the country are rearrested within three years of release, with more than half returning to prison."

A program that helps decrease recidivism? We need more programs like that, instead of the typical American attitude of make their lives miserable for 3-5 years, because that attitude leads to more crime on those innocent Americans who aren't in prison 3-5 years later.

Yea but you can't just copy-paste a program like that. Its a one off deal. I'm sure it has a lot to do with how the inmates are treated and the fact that they are interested in such a program to begin with. Good intentions and all that. You're losing it DrPizza.

 

[Meghan54]

Yea but you can't just copy-paste a program like that. Its a one off deal. I'm sure it has a lot to do with how the inmates are treated and the fact that they are interested in such a program to begin with. Good intentions and all that. You're losing it DrPizza.

LOL! Dr. Pizza isn't losing anything but patience.

A 2013 RAND Corporation study showed that participation in prison education, including both academic and vocational programming, was associated with an over 40 percent reduction in recidivism—saving $4 to $5 for each dollar spent.

http://www.thenation.com/article/pr...r-40-percent-why-arent-we-funding-more-of-it/

http://www.rand.org/news/press/2013/08/22.html



But I'll ask you why do you think educating inmates that want to be educated is a bad thing? Otherwise, we're just housing inmates and then releasing them into society in worse shape than when they entered the correctional system.

 

[OverVolt]

LOL! Dr. Pizza isn't losing anything but patience.



http://www.thenation.com/article/pr...r-40-percent-why-arent-we-funding-more-of-it/

http://www.rand.org/news/press/2013/08/22.html



But I'll ask you why do you think educating inmates that want to be educated is a bad thing? Otherwise, we're just housing inmates and then releasing them into society in worse shape than when they entered the correctional system.

The inmates who don't want to be educated are a legitimate waste of time and putting them in the same classroom as the good ones will dilute the whole program. Its the same logic we used to send everyone to college and dilute a bachelors degree.

Don't need links bro. They can do all the RAND corporations studies they want.

 

[IronWing]

Why would we want to reduce recidivism? That's bad for the politically powerful prison industry.

 

[WHAMPOM]

The inmates who don't want to be educated is a legitimate waste of time and putting them in the same classroom as the good ones will dilute the whole program. Its the same logic we used to send everyone to college and dilute a bachelors degree.

Don't need links bro. They can do all the RAND corporations studies they want.

You do know they have to pass their exams to earn that degree don't you? Just how does earning a degree dilute it?

 

[OverVolt]

You do know they have to pass their exams to earn that degree don't you? Just how does earning a degree dilute it?

Because they are actual people. Just the fact that an inmate wants a degree would reduce recidivism. Even someone who doesn't want to be there can pass the exams. With any socioeconomic factor you can't fake it with just one variable. Someone who wants a degree even though they are in jail ties into many other factors outside their life.

So for example I would bet that wanting a degree in college is tied to more white collar crime. And I would bet that white collar crime is also tied to lower recidivism. And on and on.

The whole thing is just dumb. Its jail. Not everyone can be changed.

The article makes a cheeky headline and is an interesting though and at the end of the day after beating Harvard they went to sleep in their prison cot.

 

[theeedude]

Prisoners are master debaters.

 

[woolfe9998]

I think just as importantly, "The Bard Prison Initiative, which has 300 students enrolled across New York state, reports that less than 2% of its formerly imprisoned students return to prison. By comparison, nearly 68 out of every 100 prisoners across the country are rearrested within three years of release, with more than half returning to prison."

A program that helps decrease recidivism? We need more programs like that, instead of the typical American attitude of make their lives miserable for 3-5 years, because that attitude leads to more crime on those innocent Americans who aren't in prison 3-5 years later.

Yeah, that was what caught my eye as well. A 2% recidivism rate is amazing. It means that those who leave this prison after participating in this program are less likely to wind up back in prison than the average person who hasn't been to prison yet. Sure, these prisoners were self-selected for the program but I doubt that entirely explains a difference as dramatic as this.

Apparently some prison rehab programs can be effective. The trick is identifying the successful ones and trying to replicate them elsewhere.

 

[Spungo]

Not so funny when you realize why these things are happening:

"On March 24, 2014 at the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA) Championships at Indiana University, two Towson University students, Ameena Ruffin and Korey Johnson, became the first African-American women to win a national college debate tournament, for which the resolution asked whether the U.S. president&#8217;s war powers should be restricted. Rather than address the resolution straight on, Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise. The more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities."

I remember that video! I think it was pulled from youtube because it was deemed racist. It was uploaded again by a different user.
https://youtu.be/jLpJtYaFEac?t=56

Before anyone starts saying crap about black people, I would like to present examples of white people using the same I smoked meth 20 minutes ago way of talking. Both examples are other CEDA debates. Is this a real organization or just the world's greatest internet prank?
white person
another white person

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I remember that video! I think it was pulled from youtube because it was deemed racist. It was uploaded again by a different user.
https://youtu.be/jLpJtYaFEac?t=56

Before anyone starts saying crap about black people, I would like to present examples of white people using the same I smoked meth 20 minutes ago way of talking. Both examples are other CEDA debates. Is this a real organization or just the world's greatest internet prank?
white person
another white person

Wowsers. All of those videos are insane, with the skinny white girl in the first video being the most so (I literally couldn't tell if she was speaking English much of the time).

So I was not on a debate team in college, and am not familiar with this CEDA format, but I find the whole thing bizarre. In what universe is rambling like a crazy person supposed to be compelling advocacy? Do we know whether the Harvard-prison debate was conducted using a format like this, or a more traditional format?