workshop/barn design

[herm0016]

we want to build a workshop. I am thinking about 60 x 40. want a steel building for good bay height in the center, but keeping it lower overall to lower its visual impact on the property. It will be placed a few hundred feet in front of our home on a narrow, long 5 acre plot. we will store a 18to20 foot boat, tractor, a toy car or 2 or 3 in the hopefully distant future when I get the collection from my father. I also am a bit of a wood worker/fabricator/etc. and would like dedicated shop space for building things or pulling in a car to work on, etc. so a mechanics bay and wood shop space.

thinking about this, 3 20 ft. wide 40 ft. long spaces. far side is boat and tractor storage. middle is maybe the slide in truck camper in the back sharing space in the far side with the boat and lift/mechanic space in the front. next bay is wood shop in the back and car storage in the front. also thinking of cutting the size down on the width to 50. 3 16.5 ft. bays should still get me plenty of space for 2 cars in the back of a bay and one in the front, as cars are generally around 6.5 ish feet wide, at least anything i want to keep long term. i have a bit of reference as my dad has a barn with the collection in it, but I'm trying to think long term.

we are young and I only want to do this once. I am really only dead set on it being a steel building, keeping the peak height lower and having 2 ft. over hangs with gutters for longevity of the cladding and water management around the foundation. it will be insulated and heated. I am also keeping it a bit lower to lower the interior volume for heating costs. the back of one bay will probably have a room dedicated to a battery storage system for a future ground mount solar system. also considering some kind or bridge or cantilever hoist inside, and solar on the roof instead of ground mount. likely will have the main panel in the barn and the house running off a subpanel with a big breaker next to that. meter is on a pole in front of the house, so that should not be a huge issue with co-op.

what am I missing? besides about another 50k! haha. plan on raising the building myself. my father has built a few pole barns and the steel building guy says its easy if you have any skill at all. ill get the concrete done by someone else. bro in law is an electrician and does commercial stuff, so should be good there, he will also be using the space. what is on your "should have" list. everyone says go bigger bigger bigger, but i really am quite good at keeping the number of things to store at a constant level, save for inheriting some old iron and a wood boat, but planning for that now.

current mods to drawing, make all the doors 12 wide. paint drawing not to scale. i have been talking to these guys for the building: https://greatwesternbuildings.com/

 

[skyking]

A cheap forklift and loft(s) over the woodshop to lower the volume further for heating, plus the storage in the loft space. Access it from the high center bay with cheap forklift.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Look up on YouTube on Brandon Coin about his mining garage. He did something similar, and goes into some detail.

 

[RLGL]

for the storage space all you need is a single 12' wide door. use a small tractor or 4 wheeler to park the trailered items. You can get a set of dollies for the cars to move them into tight spaces. You don't say where you are but consider in floor heat for the shop space. Another thing have 2 zones for the heat to keep the storage at a lower temp. Also antifreeze the system.

 

[herm0016]

A cheap forklift and loft(s) over the woodshop to lower the volume further for heating, plus the storage in the loft space. Access it from the high center bay with cheap forklift.

my tractor has forks. i would have to go much higher on the eve height for that to work well though.

for the storage space all you need is a single 12' wide door. use a small tractor or 4 wheeler to park the trailered items. You can get a set of dollies for the cars to move them into tight spaces. You don't say where you are but consider in floor heat for the shop space. Another thing have 2 zones for the heat to keep the storage at a lower temp. Also antifreeze the system.

more doors is better. my tractor is not very small, but will be used to move stuff, the dollies would be helpful on cars. hopefully that will not be an issue for some time.

 

[Greenman]

Wood shop portion needs to be completely separated from the rest of the structure or you'll spend the rest of your life cleaning up dust.

 

[deadlyapp]

If you're going to have a car bay, I significantly recommend a 2 or 4 post lift. I see you mention lift but not really highlight it. It gives you extra storage space (one car on lift, one underneath) and a lot of flexibility doing work. Just have to make sure your roof beam height will allow for install (probably need minimum 18ft ceiling).

Remember to think about overhead door design and how it interacts with the stuff in the bay. The overhead doors we have are just like garage doors and therefore you're height limited when the door is open. The ones that turn into big rolls have better clearance. I definitely recommend putting bay doors (at least for one bay) on both sides of the building.

Pour the slab quite a bit larger than the building itself. You never know, you may want to put an external awning/porch up on one side, easier to pour all at once than expand it later.

Insulation takes a fair amount of space up, and if you're going to duct it, just think about how the ducts will interfere with the height if you run them overhead.

You didn't mention plumbing, definitely recommend putting in sewer (although you're probably on septic) and water supply. You won't want to run back and forth to house to use the bathroom and it's very nice to be able to wash out things in the shop itself.

Put in lots of power. More than you think you want or need.

If you don't want to air conditioning (I wouldn't) leaving some room for a couple of strong wall mounted exhaust fans is a great idea. They make some that are controllable by phone apps now.

If you're going to insulate, you probably won't put in any windows. Might be worth looking into skylights. They can leak over time (so they need to be maintained) but the natural light is very nice to have rather than just pure LED lights.

Putting in a good external dust collection system if you're going to have a wood shop. Make it negative pressure for the complete woodshop area. On the plus side, if you ever needed to paint, you could use the same system to probably pull a vacuum for a spray room.

I think that captures most everything I can think of. I have a large steel building (6000 sq ft, 100ft x 75ft) that I run a gym business out of, which is very different than what you are doing, but some of the issues I've run into are similar to what you'll run into.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Put in lots of power. More than you think you want or need.

Who knows, you might make it into a mining farm.

 

[herm0016]

If you're going to have a car bay, I significantly recommend a 2 or 4 post lift. I see you mention lift but not really highlight it. It gives you extra storage space (one car on lift, one underneath) and a lot of flexibility doing work. Just have to make sure your roof beam height will allow for install (probably need minimum 18ft ceiling).

Remember to think about overhead door design and how it interacts with the stuff in the bay. The overhead doors we have are just like garage doors and therefore you're height limited when the door is open. The ones that turn into big rolls have better clearance. I definitely recommend putting bay doors (at least for one bay) on both sides of the building.

hmm. yes. is there an insulated roll up door though? def. want insulated.

Pour the slab quite a bit larger than the building itself. You never know, you may want to put an external awning/porch up on one side, easier to pour all at once than expand it later.

energy wise for heating this would be terrible. ill have overhangs, but the floor slap will be within a set of stem walls and i will insulate the floor slab with foam underneath and a foam thermal break between the floor slab and the stem walls. it gets very cold here, not sure where you are.

Insulation takes a fair amount of space up, and if you're going to duct it, just think about how the ducts will interfere with the height if you run them overhead.

i was thinking mini splits, but may look into how i can do in-floor with electric. do not want to have another propane tank just for the barn.

You didn't mention plumbing, definitely recommend putting in sewer (although you're probably on septic) and water supply. You won't want to run back and forth to house to use the bathroom and it's very nice to be able to wash out things in the shop itself.

yes, we are on septic. yes i want plumbing. my wife has requested a small commercial kitchen space now. haha. I will rough it out for this at least. not sure what the county will do for connecting to the septic. i should not have to increase capacity if not adding a bedroom, but its a bit unclear in the regulations for a separate structure.

Put in lots of power. More than you think you want or need.

yes. we are on single wire rural though, so not sure what my max will be. hope to run the main panel from the meter on the pole in the barn, then the house stays a sub panel.

If you don't want to air conditioning (I wouldn't) leaving some room for a couple of strong wall mounted exhaust fans is a great idea. They make some that are controllable by phone apps now.

Heat for sure, AC may come with the mini-splits if i use those but wont get used that much as it is very dry and not all that hot here. exhaust fan is a great idea.

If you're going to insulate, you probably won't put in any windows. Might be worth looking into skylights. They can leak over time (so they need to be maintained) but the natural light is very nice to have rather than just pure LED lights.

I for sure want side windows, but i do not want skylights for the above reason, they always leak at some point. insulated glass vinyl windows are cheap enough.

Putting in a good external dust collection system if you're going to have a wood shop. Make it negative pressure for the complete woodshop area. On the plus side, if you ever needed to paint, you could use the same system to probably pull a vacuum for a spray room.

dust collection will be something i can add later, just plan for a spot now. I can build an external lean to for the large air compressor and dust collector.

I think that captures most everything I can think of. I have a large steel building (6000 sq ft, 100ft x 75ft) that I run a gym business out of, which is very different than what you are doing, but some of the issues I've run into are similar to what you'll run into.

thanks. any pics of the interior finish? how the inside cladding and insulation are handled?

 

[herm0016]

Who knows, you might make it into a mining farm.

do you need a good internet connection for that?

 

[VirtualLarry]

do you need a good internet connection for that?

Yes.

 

[herm0016]

Yes.

well that's out! haha. we have a little ubiquti dish pointed at our neighbor's on top of the mountain barn, which as i understand it is a relay station with a microwave link to some tower. haha. max is 50 mbps i believe, but if its snowing, foggy, dust in the air it cuts it down. a local rural internet provider. the only thing we have a wire or pipe for is power.

 

[VirtualLarry]

well that's out! haha. we have a little ubiquti dish pointed at our neighbor's on top of the mountain barn, which as i understand it is a relay station with a microwave link to some tower. haha. max is 50 mbps i believe, but if its snowing, foggy, dust in the air it cuts it down. a local rural internet provider. the only thing we have a wire or pipe for is power.

It doesn't require high bandwidth, just a steady, constant connection, preferably with the lowest latency possible.

 

[deadlyapp]

hmm. yes. is there an insulated roll up door though? def. want insulated.

energy wise for heating this would be terrible. ill have overhangs, but the floor slap will be within a set of stem walls and i will insulate the floor slab with foam underneath and a foam thermal break between the floor slab and the stem walls. it gets very cold here, not sure where you are.

i was thinking mini splits, but may look into how i can do in-floor with electric. do not want to have another propane tank just for the barn.

yes, we are on septic. yes i want plumbing. my wife has requested a small commercial kitchen space now. haha. I will rough it out for this at least. not sure what the county will do for connecting to the septic. i should not have to increase capacity if not adding a bedroom, but its a bit unclear in the regulations for a separate structure.

yes. we are on single wire rural though, so not sure what my max will be. hope to run the main panel from the meter on the pole in the barn, then the house stays a sub panel.

Heat for sure, AC may come with the mini-splits if i use those but wont get used that much as it is very dry and not all that hot here. exhaust fan is a great idea.

I for sure want side windows, but i do not want skylights for the above reason, they always leak at some point. insulated glass vinyl windows are cheap enough.

dust collection will be something i can add later, just plan for a spot now. I can build an external lean to for the large air compressor and dust collector.


thanks. any pics of the interior finish? how the inside cladding and insulation are handled?

That's a good point regarding the slab if you're in a very cold environment, but like you say, putting in a good thermal break between the primary and the exterior slab would probably work. I mostly just meant to plan and get the permits for more slab than you need for the building alone, because once the building is up, it will become more challenging to get the concrete truck back there, etc.

We're in a hot area (Houston) so we only need insulation for reducing heat load, and since we don't have AC in the building, we don't really care that much about insulation. Most people do spray foam insulation on the roll up doors, although I'm sure they have some specially designed "double pane" style roll ups that are better insulated. Worst case you can run high clearance rails for the door and avoid any real issues.

We have one wall insulated, but we just did it with cheap residential style fiberglass batts and plywood and only went half way up. They sell insulation panels specifically for steel buildings that are a better fit, although rigid foam is also a really great way to insulate. Spray foam is really not recommended because it can trap moisture and lead to corrosion over time. A lot of people still end up spraying because you can do it quickly (and sometimes more cheaply than fiberglass) and you can paint over it.

If you're planning on putting in windows, then I think you'll be happy. My main point was just about having some natural light that you can get in there.

 

[skyking]

Greenman's point about woodshop dust is good. I have a 4 bag vac system to put in my new shop, and it will be sealed off from the rest of the shop because of the wood dust. The vac system and compressor are going in a space outside of the main structure to keep the noise and dust at bay.
I like the split mini's because you can heat each area separately to whatever temperature you need.