Workout Routine

[ScottyB]

So I am in the process of losing weight. I have lost about 25 lbs so far, and I have about 103 pounds left before I reach my goal. I have been eating healthy foods and pacing my meals better.

I have been going to the gym about every day and doing some machine lifting (seen below) and 35 minutes on the treadmill. The last few days I added a morning swim to my routine.

My question is: Would it be better for me to do a daily full-body exercise or to focus on a few body parts and rotate with both?

Current:

Day 1: 3 back exercises x 4 sets, 3 biceps exercises x 4 sets
Day 2: 3 chest exercises x 4 sets, 3 triceps exercises x 4 sets
Day 3: 3 leg exercises x 4 sets, 3 shoulder exercises x 4 sets

Proposed:

Day 1: 1 each of chest, back, legs, shoulders, biceps, triceps x 4 sets
Day 2: 1 each of alt. chest, back, legs, shoulders, biceps, triceps x 4 sets
Day 3: 1 each of alt. of alt. chest, back, legs, shoulders, biceps, triceps x 4 sets

 

[brikis98]

First, I hope you've taken the time to read the trusty fat loss sticky. Lots of good info in there regarding weight management. Second, weight training will definitely come in handy for improving your physical fitness and maintaining muscle mass. However, there are a few things you need to know:

1. Don't use machines. They produce inferior results, do not allow for "functional movements" (so your strength will be hard to apply in real life) and have a high potential for overuse injuries.

2. Use free weights. The single best guide I've seen for free weights is Starting Strength (plus the optional, but complementary DVD). I'm a cheapskate, but if you are going to set foot in a weight room, they are worth every penny.

3. Use a routine developed by professionals and not something you come up with yourself. Beginners tend to get the best bang for the buck by doing a full body workout 3 times per week and following simple, linear programming. The gold standard for this is the routine in the aforementioned book, Starting Strength. The very similar Stronglifts 5x5 program is also a decent alternative (and the Stronglifts site is a nice free resource).

Good luck!

 

[ScottyB]

First, I hope you've taken the time to read the trusty fat loss sticky. Lots of good info in there regarding weight management. Second, weight training will definitely come in handy for improving your physical fitness and maintaining muscle mass. However, there are a few things you need to know:

1. Don't use machines. They produce inferior results, do not allow for "functional movements" (so your strength will be hard to apply in real life) and have a high potential for overuse injuries.

2. Use free weights. The single best guide I've seen for free weights is Starting Strength (plus the optional, but complementary DVD). I'm a cheapskate, but if you are going to set foot in a weight room, they are worth every penny.

3. Use a routine developed by professionals and not something you come up with yourself. Beginners tend to get the best bang for the buck by doing a full body workout 3 times per week and following simple, linear programming. The gold standard for this is the routine in the aforementioned book, Starting Strength. The very similar Stronglifts 5x5 program is also a decent alternative (and the Stronglifts site is a nice free resource).

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. But,

1/2) I don't have accessibility to free weights nor do I want to use them at this stage.

3) I won't do those types of exercises as I feel they can easily result in injury.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Thanks for the advice. But,

1/2) I don't have accessibility to free weights nor do I want to use them at this stage.

3) I won't do those types of exercises as I feel they can easily result in injury.

1/2) Get a gym membership. If your health is worth the effort, it's worth a little bit of money as well. You SHOULD want to use them because they will help you reduce body fat while maintaining muscle mass. If you don't get on a resistance program then you will lose both muscle and fat and end up being the skinny fat person. On top of that, free weights actually reduce risk of injury due to building stabilizer muscles. If you don't build stabilizers, you risk muscle strains and dislocations.

3) These programs revolve around FORM. If you have correct form, you have no problems to worry about. You aren't a trained individual. Why should you, someone who is inexperienced, make a program for yourself? You are at a greater risk of injury if you do something like that.

Did you even look at the fat loss sticky? You should. It might change your mind about some things.

 

[ScottyB]

1/2) Get a gym membership. If your health is worth the effort, it's worth a little bit of money as well. You SHOULD want to use them because they will help you reduce body fat while maintaining muscle mass. If you don't get on a resistance program then you will lose both muscle and fat and end up being the skinny fat person. On top of that, free weights actually reduce risk of injury due to building stabilizer muscles. If you don't build stabilizers, you risk muscle strains and dislocations.

3) These programs revolve around FORM. If you have correct form, you have no problems to worry about. You aren't a trained individual. Why should you, someone who is inexperienced, make a program for yourself? You are at a greater risk of injury if you do something like that.

Did you even look at the fat loss sticky? You should. It might change your mind about some things.

I used to lift free-weights. I don't agree with your assertions. I already have muscles, I just want to lose the fat. I use dumbbells, and I can still curl about 65 pounds each arm. I don't have a desire to go the free weight route again. I want to lose weight and then switch over to cardio + pushups + sporting activities.

Now, as for my original question, which would be better for me?

 

[brikis98]

Thanks for the advice. But,

1/2) I don't have accessibility to free weights nor do I want to use them at this stage.

3) I won't do those types of exercises as I feel they can easily result in injury.

Finding a gym that has barbells shouldn't be difficult and in the worst case, you can buy a squat rack, barbell and weights for pretty damn cheap from CL. "Those types of exercises" do not result in injury any more than any other form of exercise. In fact, Starting Strength is kind enough to list the stats and you can find lots of them in the Weight Training Safety article. Some key quotes:

"Proper technique and completion of a full range of motion is paramount to prevent injury to connective tissue, muscle, and joint capsules."
"Free weights do not produce more injuries, compared to machines (Ralph et al. 1993)."

Also, check out the injury rates for various sports. Soccer has an injury rate over 1000 times greater than weight training. If you learn proper technique (as explained in the resources I listed before), free weight training is very safe and extremely effective.

I used to lift free-weights. I don't agree with your assertions. I already have muscles, I just want to lose the fat. I use dumbbells, and I can still curl about 65 pounds each arm. I don't have a desire to go the free weight route again. I want to lose weight and then switch over to cardio + pushups + sporting activities.

Now, as for my original question, which would be better for me?

If you stay in a caloric deficit for a long time, you WILL lose muscle mass. The only question is how much. If you do weight training, the amount can be minimized. If you don't, you'll end up skinny fat. If you're trying to lose over 100lbs, you'll still be better in the end, but why not do it the right way?

Also, curling dumbbells is nothing like the free weight exercises we are suggesting. Curls are an isolation exercise (one muscle group/joint) that use light weights and will have little impact on maintaining LBM or improving your fitness. Squats, deadlifts, bench press, etc are all compound movements that train a huge number of muscle groups with big weights, producing awesome results.

Obviously, you should do as you like, but you should have the proper information first.

 

[ScottyB]

Finding a gym that has barbells shouldn't be difficult and in the worst case, you can buy a squat rack, barbell and weights for pretty damn cheap from CL. "Those types of exercises" do not result in injury any more than any other form of exercise. In fact, Starting Strength is kind enough to list the stats and you can find lots of them in the Weight Training Safety article. Some key quotes:

"Proper technique and completion of a full range of motion is paramount to prevent injury to connective tissue, muscle, and joint capsules."
"Free weights do not produce more injuries, compared to machines (Ralph et al. 1993)."

Also, check out the injury rates for various sports. Soccer has an injury rate over 1000 times greater than weight training. If you learn proper technique (as explained in the resources I listed before), free weight training is very safe and extremely effective.


If you stay in a caloric deficit for a long time, you WILL lose muscle mass. The only question is how much. If you do weight training, the amount can be minimized. If you don't, you'll end up skinny fat. If you're trying to lose over 100lbs, you'll still be better in the end, but why not do it the right way?

Also, curling dumbbells is nothing like the free weight exercises we are suggesting. Curls are an isolation exercise (one muscle group/joint) that use light weights and will have little impact on maintaining LBM or improving your fitness. Squats, deadlifts, bench press, etc are all compound movements that train a huge number of muscle groups with big weights, producing awesome results.

Obviously, you should do as you like, but you should have the proper information first.

Great. But that still doesn't answer my question. I don't mean to be rude. But this is like asking a TV salesman if it is better to have a higher refresh rate or a contrast ratio in an LCD screen and having him respond with the virtues of plasma TVs.

 

[Howard]

At the risk of sounding like a lackey, it seems to me like a case of one walking into the clinic and telling the doctor what the diagnosis probably is.

 

[ScottyB]

At the risk of sounding like a lackey, it seems to me like a case of one walking into the clinic and telling the doctor what the diagnosis probably is.

More like walking into the pharmacist and asking if aspirin or Tylenol is a better choice, and the pharmacist going into a spiel about how ibuprofen is the best after being repeatedly told the customer doesn't like ibuprofen and isn't going to take ibuprofen (and never answering the question the entire time).

 

[SociallyChallenged]

More like walking into the pharmacist and asking if aspirin or Tylenol is a better choice, and the pharmacist going into a spiel about how ibuprofen is the best after being repeatedly told the customer doesn't like ibuprofen and isn't going to take ibuprofen (and never answering the question the entire time).

Well, if ibuprofen works the absolute best and the person has reasons that are unfounded, the pharmacist has professional reasons for suggesting it. You can disagree with my "assertions," but what I'm saying is 100% physiology. It's not a some-of-the-time phenomena. If you don't put your muscle under load while in a caloric deficit, you experience atrophy and muscle loss.

Also, you never answered my question. What makes you think you have enough experience to make a program? What you're asking about is a bodybuilding split, which is ineffective for a great deal of the population. It isolates and therefore doesn't develop stabillizers. When you go to use those muscles in real life, you have a much higher risk of injury due to lack of stabilizer strength. Your program is one clearly written by someone uneducated in fitness. Can you actually give us reasons why you don't want to do free weights and such? There are too many people that make decisions due to something they heard or tiny experiences they've had in the past. If you do it right, you will be much happier with your results.

My recommendation stands. Your goals and strength gains will not be functional and will ultimately be sub par. Don't do that to yourself. Machines are useless and were made for rehabilitation originally until someone decided to throw them in gyms nationwide. I'm a pre-physical therapy student. I know that they're functionally useless if used by a healthy individual. Don't waste your time.

PS: If you were experienced enough to make these decisions, you would already know which program serves you better.

 

[brikis98]

Great. But that still doesn't answer my question. I don't mean to be rude. But this is like asking a TV salesman if it is better to have a higher refresh rate or a contrast ratio in an LCD screen and having him respond with the virtues of plasma TVs.

Well, I tried. It is clear you have a very poor understanding of exercise, physiology, etc, but it's your body and your choice. Of the two routines you posted, the full body one ("proposed") is typically the best choice for beginners as it lets you work the same muscle groups multiple times per week. Since beginners can usually recover and adapt in ~48 hours, this gives you faster results than waiting a full week to train the same muscle group again.

 

[ScottyB]

Well, I tried. It is clear you have a very poor understanding of exercise, physiology, etc, but it's your body and your choice. Of the two routines you posted, the full body one ("proposed") is typically the best choice for beginners as it lets you work the same muscle groups multiple times per week. Since beginners can usually recover and adapt in ~48 hours, this gives you faster results than waiting a full week to train the same muscle group again.

Thank you for answering my question.

 

[ScottyB]

Well, I tried. It is clear you have a very poor understanding of exercise, physiology, etc, but it's your body and your choice. Of the two routines you posted, the full body one ("proposed") is typically the best choice for beginners as it lets you work the same muscle groups multiple times per week. Since beginners can usually recover and adapt in ~48 hours, this gives you faster results than waiting a full week to train the same muscle group again.

It isn't a full week though, as I train six days a week.

 

[brikis98]

It isn't a full week though, as I train six days a week.

Are you saying you lift 6 days per week? If so, my first comment would be that you are again demonstrating a lack of understanding of exercise physiology. Lifting that often is likely to be counterproductive as either (a) your body won't have enough time to recover and make adaptations between workouts or (b) you aren't pushing yourself hard, in which case you are just wasting time at the gym. At any rate, assuming you stick with this crazy schedule, then I have to change my recommendation: do the split routine. Training every single muscle 6 times per week is going to be more than you can recover from, so it is better to split it up so each group gets hit twice a week. Having said that, you'd see even better results (while spending less time at the gym) with a full body free weight routine 3 times per week...

 

[ScottyB]

Are you saying you lift 6 days per week? If so, my first comment would be that you are again demonstrating a lack of understanding of exercise physiology. Lifting that often is likely to be counterproductive as either (a) your body won't have enough time to recover and make adaptations between workouts or (b) you aren't pushing yourself hard, in which case you are just wasting time at the gym. At any rate, assuming you stick with this crazy schedule, then I have to change my recommendation: do the split routine. Training every single muscle 6 times per week is going to be more than you can recover from, so it is better to split it up so each group gets hit twice a week. Having said that, you'd see even better results (while spending less time at the gym) with a full body free weight routine 3 times per week...

Thanks. I have decided that I will do 3 - 4 days a week with the full body (or a modified version). Other days, I will swim and do some other cardio (row machine or one of the classes the gym offers). I am thinking of switching to some more dumbbell exercises (such as a bench dumbbell row for back) to help with "stabilizer" muscles.

 

[brikis98]

Thanks. I have decided that I will do 3 - 4 days a week with the full body (or a modified version). Other days, I will swim and do some other cardio (row machine or one of the classes the gym offers). I am thinking of switching to some more dumbbell exercises (such as a bench dumbbell row for back) to help with "stabilizer" muscles.

That sounds much more reasonable. One comment though: training with free weights isn't just about "stabilizer" muscles. In fact, I hate that notion because it makes the difference between free weights and machines sound trivial and unimportant. There are much bigger and more important differences between the two that are worth knowing about:

1. Free weights develop "neuromuscular coordination", a fancy term for the ability of your body to apply force with your muscles in a balanced & coordinated fashion. A big part of the difficulty of a free weight squat or the even more complicated olympic lifts is the accuracy and balance needed to execute the lift correctly, even with hundreds of pounds on your back or flying through the air. This is NOT so much about stabilizer muscles, but rather about your central nervous system (CNS) and its ability to fire all your muscles in the appropriate patterns. This kind of CNS development is what allows you to apply the strength built from free weights to the real world. On the other hand, since machines lock the weight in a fixed path and do all the balancing for you, you never develop these crucial skills when doing things like the leg press or leg extensions. Your muscles might get bigger, but you'll find it much tougher to use them on any real world tasks because real world objects don't run on slide rails, pulley systems, etc.

2. "Functional exercises" with free weights have a much better "bang for the buck" than the isolation exercises people typically do on machines. That is, they get you stronger and fitter faster. One big reason for this is due to the overlapping nature of compound exercises: for example, getting good at the squat can make you better at bench press. This is because the squat is not just a "leg exercise", but a full body workout that requires an incredibly strong core to balance the weight. Well, it turns out that the same core strength is very useful in bench press. It's also useful in overhead press, power cleans and deadlift, so getting better at the squat makes you better at ALL those exercises and vice versa. On the other hand, doing leg press does not make you any better at doing a machine bench press.

3. Machines do not allow for natural/safe/healthy full range of motion movement patterns. One example is the smith machine, which lots of misguided people use for squatting and bench press. The machine enforces a perfectly vertical bar path, which is nice to strive for with free weights, but biomechanically impossible. The natural bar path on a free weight squat or bench press always have some curvature in it simply due to how the joints/muscles are in the human body. The smith machine doesn't allow such a curvature, so you are forced to adapt your technique to its movement pattern. For example, whereas the free weight squat distributes the work evenly over the hamstrings and quads, the smith machine squat usually forces people into a weird lean back position that limits their ROM and puts all the work on the quads and enormous stress on the knee. The result is a less effective and more dangerous exercise. The same kind of issues exist in all machines, and that isn't even discussing the possibility that the machine might not fit your anatomy perfectly.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the point. Machines, for the vast majority of cases, are VASTLY inferior to free weight training, and it has VERY little to do with stabilizer muscles.