Working around the ATI gpu shim...

[Cheetah8799]

Hi everyone! I own a 9800 Pro (R350) 128mb card and have a VGA Silencer Rev 2 installed. Sadly, my 9800 Pro has the shim on the gpu, and I think my VGA Silencer doesn't get the best surface contact. I've done some google searching on how to remove the shim, and it sounds risky. So I've decided the better route would be to maybe look at alternative coolers that have a raised surface so the shim doesn't come in contact with the heatsink.

Does anyone know of any coolers that have a raised surface? I think the NEW VGA Silencers have this, which you can see in this picture, but they are a tad pricey at the moment.

One issue for me is the ram temps, cause my card's ram chips get SUPER HOT even with ramsinks installed. So I'd like a cooler that allows room for the chip heatsinks like this, or is able to touch the chips as well. Similar to this model which won't work for my 9800 Pro 128mb card...

The Zalman and Thermaltake passive heatsink solutions would work well for me because I have 2 x 92mm side intake fans, one directly over the video card, and another just above it. The ram temps would be a problem though, unless the heatsink touches them. I've never used any of these, so I'm not sure of the ram and also if they have the raised spot for the gpu contact point.

Another alternative is to grind down my current VGA Silencer where the shim contacts it so that the heatsink is able to get better contact with the gpu. I'm not sure how hard this will be though, and could potentially destroy my vga silencer...



Any thoughts, comments, suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Cheetah8799]

I've just been told that the Zalman and Thermaltake passive coolers are also flat, and have shim contact problems....

Anyone have any ideas on what I should do? I'll probably check out this some more to see if there is in fact a raised surface to help with the shim problem.

 

[TStep]

I suppose you could always rob the heatspreader off of a dead P4 and cut the edges off or get some pure thin copper and cut it to size to raise the Silencer. I don't know what you would give up in cooling with the

core>paste>copper shim>paste>Silencer sandwich

but it would be very inexpensive to try it out.

 

[Cheetah8799]

but it would be very inexpensive to try it out.

Unless if I fry the video card...

I've thought of that, but am not sure where to get thin enough copper to make my own shim.

 

[apoppin]

i don't think the shim is a problem

unless you are a hardcore o/c'er who doeesn't mind takng a chance destroying your card the shim won't matter at all to reach 95% of the card's ultimate potential - maybe +1 or 2 FPS in any given game.

:roll:

edit . . just a thought, what about polishing the shim down, lapping it?

 

[TStep]

I would not think you would fry it if it's not fried already with the poor contact you have or the thick gob of paste that fills the space currently. But I could be wrong:Q

Local metal fabrication shop would probably give you a cutoff that small if you can give them a guage thickness.

Or:
here
here

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: TStep
I would not think you would fry it if it's not fried already with the poor contact you have or the thick gob of paste that fills the space currently. But I could be wrong:Q

Local metal fabrication shop would probably give you a cutoff that small if you can give them a guage thickness.

Or:
here
here

do NOT use too much thermal paste? it is FAR worse to use more . . . use less . . .

and what about "lapping" polishing down the shim . . . might take awhile but seems "safer" . . .

 

[TStep]

Some the the guys around here use mobile Celerons (Karaktu??) and some of the mobile cores need a shim to work correctly with certain motherboard hsf mounts. Maybe they have some ideas?

 

[Cheetah8799]

I thought about grinding/polishing the shim down, but don't want to get tiny metal flakes all over the card. Not sure if it'll happen, but possible I suppose.

As for shim contact issues, one article I read is this one.

I didn't mention this in the original post, but I have been overclocking the card's gpu speed, but since it's summer now and air temps are up I have been getting artifacts and vpu errors while overclocking. So now I'm running stock speeds and still get the vpu errors on rare occasions. I've never been able to OC the ram, any overclock at all causes artifacts... I put ramsinks on, and they really cook after playing games.

 

[Cheetah8799]

Originally posted by: TStep
Some the the guys around here use mobile Celerons (Karaktu??) and some of the mobile cores need a shim to work correctly with certain motherboard hsf mounts. Maybe they have some ideas?

Ya, Karaktu got me into the mobile celerons for a while. One some boards he had to use a polished penny to get it to work. I never had problems with my boards though.

 

[TStep]

Maybe that came out wrong. Too much paste = very bad. I was refering to the paste buildup that came with the card stock (yellow goo, I think or was that the 9700?) being far worse than any copper shim (coated both side with thin film of paste) he could try.

 

[Creig]

Since you're modding the card anyhow, why not simply remove the shim? If it's the same shim that came with the 9500/9700 cards, simply pop it in the freezer for a hour to make the adhesive more brittle and carefully pry up under one of the corners. The shim should come right off.

 

[Cheetah8799]

Originally posted by: TStep
Maybe that came out wrong. Too much paste = very bad. I was refering to the paste buildup that came with the card stock (yellow goo, I think or was that the 9700?) being far worse than any copper shim (coated both side with thin film of paste) he could try.

No worries there. I cleaned off the pad crap that came with the stock heatsink. Also didn't apply too much paste. I may have used the white paste that came with the cooler though instead of the Arctic Silver 3 I have on hand. Maybe I should try using better paste. It shouldn't cause these problems, since they wouldn't provide the paste if it wasn't good enough, but it might help to use better stuff anyway I guess...

 

[Cheetah8799]

Originally posted by: Creig
Since you're modding the card anyhow, why not simply remove the shim? If it's the same shim that came with the 9500/9700 cards, simply pop it in the freezer for a hour to make the adhesive more brittle and carefully pry up under one of the corners. The shim should come right off.

I've read most people use a razor blade, but it's risky cause you can nick a contact on the gpu or pcb and basically destroy the card in one little move... "should" is the key word there.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799
I thought about grinding/polishing the shim down, but don't want to get tiny metal flakes all over the card. Not sure if it'll happen, but possible I suppose.

As for shim contact issues, one article I read is this one.

I didn't mention this in the original post, but I have been overclocking the card's gpu speed, but since it's summer now and air temps are up I have been getting artifacts and vpu errors while overclocking. So now I'm running stock speeds and still get the vpu errors on rare occasions. I've never been able to OC the ram, any overclock at all causes artifacts... I put ramsinks on, and they really cook after playing games.

well the shim does transfer heat . . . and i wasn't talking about taking a grinder to it

use a polishing stone . . . it'll take a long time . . . but it is "safe"

Also, my 9800XT doesn't O/C worth much in Summer . . . perhaps your RAM is limited, ANYway . . after all this work you may get 2 or 3 FPS more . . . is it WORTH it?

?

Originally posted by: TStep
Maybe that came out wrong. Too much paste = very bad. I was refering to the paste buildup that came with the card stock (yellow goo, I think or was that the 9700?) being far worse than any copper shim (coated both side with thin film of paste) he could try.

it was probably 'right', i just misunderstood . . .

again, i really think the shim is "no big deal" . . . especially when compared to losing a $200 card.

 

[TStep]

Due to my fear of shorting those little resisters/caps near the core, I personally don't use the silver based compounds. I use Arctic Ceramique.

 

[Cheetah8799]

Also, my 9800XT doesn't O/C worth much in Summer . . . perhaps your RAM is limited, ANYway . . after all this work you may get 2 or 3 FPS more . . . is it WORTH it?

At this point I'm not worried about the overclocking, but rather the instability I've encountered during normal summer use of the card at stock speeds.


EDIT: is it worth it? monetarily, no, but we all need something to do in our free time, right?

 

[TStep]

Happy Hacking:shocked:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Also, my 9800XT doesn't O/C worth much in Summer . . . perhaps your RAM is limited, ANYway . . after all this work you may get 2 or 3 FPS more . . . is it WORTH it?

At this point I'm not worried about the overclocking, but rather the instability I've encountered during normal summer use of the card at stock speeds.


EDIT: is it worth it? monetarily, no, but we all need something to do in our free time, right?

now that you mention it, why YES, we do



Have you considering adding more case cooling? Turning down the thermostat in your room?

oh well, don't say i didn't warn you . . . OK, go 4 it . . . slowly and patiently . . . i'd polish it down . . . and lap the HS while you're at it to make 2 mirror surfaces.

let us know what happens

g'luck!

 

[Cheetah8799]

Have you considering adding more case cooling? Turning down the thermostat in your room?

Case cooling as about as good as it'll get without going with a bigger case that allows more fans to be modded into it.... :camera: :camera:

Room temps I know are an issue, and I've discussed it here before. The problem is that I don't have AC in the room, and the windows aren't designed well to allow for a small AC unit. Plus the cost of another AC unit is more than I want to pay right now. It's an apartment, and I already have an AC unit in my bedroom.


Anyway. I'll play around with it and see if I can get it to run more stable. I'll post here with any updates.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Have you considering adding more case cooling? Turning down the thermostat in your room?

Case cooling as about as good as it'll get without going with a bigger case that allows more fans to be modded into it.... :camera: :camera:

Room temps I know are an issue, and I've discussed it here before. The problem is that I don't have AC in the room, and the windows aren't designed well to allow for a small AC unit. Plus the cost of another AC unit is more than I want to pay right now. It's an apartment, and I already have an AC unit in my bedroom.


Anyway. I'll play around with it and see if I can get it to run more stable. I'll post here with any updates.

Summer is almost over!



(we just had the coolest Summer in 50 years in SoCal . . . ~10 F cooler than "usual")