Work Moving me to Europe - Any Advice?

[MotF Bane]

Enjoy yourself, sounds like fun.

Are you married? If not enjoy the foreign offerings of wimmenz

Seems he is... divorce and enjoy the foreign offerings! :awe:

 

[Gothgar]

Seems he is... divorce and enjoy the foreign offerings! :awe:

yesssssss :biggrin:

 

[JoeKing]

The cost of shipping those items is probably not worth it. When my grandmother died she shipped a bunch of items from Europe to the states and it was a 5 figure bill. I think you could rebuy those appliances in Europe for less. One the flipside I had about 30 lbs of clothes shipped to Europe and it cost I think $160 iirc from California.

true, but if the company's paying for the move, it's a good way to save him some dough. Large ticket items are pretty costly here.

 

[GTaudiophile]

You all can't make such blanket statements about cost of living.

If you live in DC, NY, or many parts of California, then relocating to say Paris, Amsterdam, Munich, Vienna, London, Rome/Milan would be on par or slightly more expensive in some cases. Fuel/energy costs are without a doubt higher. As is the price per sq-meter in many cases. I pay about 2000 EUR for about 90 sq-meters in DC and from what I have been told, I could expect to pay the same amount for the same space in Amsterdam. But that's me. If I paid 1000 EUR for 200 sq-meters in Florida, I would be in for a shock.

I think an important decision to make is as follows:

1. Do you want to live closer to a city center with access to thorough public transport and opt to live in a smaller, more expensive apartment with no car?

2. Live outside of a city center, still commute by train (30 minutes or so), have a very small car, and a slightly larger apartment for slightly lower or similar rent as the first option?

 

[Gunslinger08]

Personally, I wouldn't do it, but I'm probably a lot more resistant to change than most people. Here are some things to think about.

1. Get a contract that's valid in the US and Austria. Be sure it includes separation clauses where they have to give you a good amount of notice and severance pay (ex. 2-3 months), so that you don't just get laid off one day without time to arrange transport home and without money to continue living there.

2. Your personality and your wife's. If you aren't the type that can make new friends easily, you are probably going to end up spending a lot of time alone. This could adversely affect your marriage after a while, especially if your wife doesn't have a work visa and employable skills in Austria.

3. Exchange rates. You are coming back here at some point. Find out if you are being paid in USD or Euros. If USD, you're going to eat exchange fees now. If Euros, you're going to eat exchange fees later and potentially lose a lot of money if the dollar tanks against the Euro. Who knows where the exchange rate will be in 3 years?

4. Existing debt payments. I'm assuming you're like most people and you have some debt. This could be your mortgage (are you going to sell your house?), cars, student loans, credit cards, etc. You need to figure out how you're going to get and pay these monthly bills. If your company is paying you in Euros at an Austrian bank, you'll probably have to do a monthly transfer to a US bank and write checks/echecks against that. You will probably incur fees for this.

5. Luxuries/convenience. I haven't been to Europe yet, but my understanding is that it's pretty different from your typical American lifestyle. You aren't going to go for a nice Sunday drive at $6+/gallon for gas. You aren't going to have a fast food or pizza place on every corner. Your apartment is going to be smaller and probably older. Many other small things.

 

[highland145]

Grats Pete. That's a bit further than Spartanburg.

An Austrian trip sounds like a good excuse to pay/collect the fat-2-fit $1.:biggrin:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Go for it! I traveled all over the world for my last company and I worked to get a transfer to our European HQ in Spain for a couple of years but it didn't pan out, unfortunately. I'd jump at an opportunity like the one you have.

 

[GTaudiophile]

While you're writing/asking questions, it might also be a good idea to determine your tax situation. I believe the IRS exempts you from up to 80K US earned while abroad. Who will be taxing you? Who will be withholding? US? Austria? Both?

There is a wonderful website called www.toytowngermany.com that can help people relocating there. I wonder if there is something similar for Austria?

You need to figure out the details like, do Austrians require you to register at a local Anmeldungsamt? In Germany, if you are staying to live or work for over 3 months, you have to register your name and address with local authorities. Even German citizens relocating within their own state/country must do this.

 

[randomrogue]

Yeah you're going to live in a much smaller home most likely. Europeans for the most part live in compact living anytime you're in a city. You could choose to live in the suburbs but then you'd have a much longer commute just for more living space that you probably won't need unless you bring all your stuff over here. I'd suggest you look to see what the Austrians are doing and you mimic that. It will look very weird if you start bringing a pool table and every knick nack you own over to Europe. Personally I think the mass transit in most major European cities is worth its weight in gold. Live smaller, live closer and don't bother with a car.

I haven't been to Austria in about 10 years but I had a very positive experience there. Socially though you are definitely going to have to hit the ground running and acclimate quickly. I have some suggestions. First join a gym. Second use the internet to your advantage. Meetup works in Europe and is a great way to meet Expats. You should join other clubs and whatnot and be out and about a lot. A sedimentary life in a foreign country will ruin the whole experience. Third learn how to use Ryan Air and how to find cheap train tickets. Use the close proximity of countries to your advantage and enjoy plenty of romantic/fun weekends with your wife. Don't forget you don't have to go very far to see something completely different. Hit up Salzburg and Innsbruck the first chance you get. Don't discount Eastern Europe. You have some really great things very close to where you'll be living.

You're coming from Florida. Have you ever lived in a cold climate? Just layer up but be prepared.

 

[rudder]

Check with a tax specialist as well... something like up to $91,000 of your income is exempt from taxes. You can file a deduction for some taxes here in the states... so I think you can also get deductions for some of the taxes paid overseas as well. This should help your bottom line.

Finalize some of the details of responsibilities.. housing, car, etc.. but hell Austria? I would leave in a heartbeat if I had the chance.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Agreed. I think I'd jump at the chance even with a wife and kids.

This. I think that would be an awesome experience.

Side bonus: Vienna is only a half a day away from some of the best skiing in the world.

 

[PricklyPete]

Make sure you're getting extra vacation and some of the European benefits so that you aren't living in Europe but struggling under a US standard of living. Austria has a minimum of 5 weeks vacation plus about 2 additional weeks of paid public holidays. If you don't get this you're going to feel awfully stupid when your co-workers are gone for a month during the summer and 2 plus weeks during the winter and you're all alone in the office like an idiot.

Thanks. I actually already get this even working in the US since I am only one of four Americans now working for the company.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Thanks. I actually already get this even working in the US since I am only one of four Americans now working for the company.

Which company? Are they hiring?

 

[PricklyPete]

I'd be all over it. BUT... a few things to keep in mind:

Cost of living is a lot higher in Europe in general. While prices may be comparable, you pretty much have to add a hefty VAT to everything (usually on the order of 10-15%?).

Lifestyle changes: Be prepared to not have the space that you may have been used to. This is Europe... living spaces are a lot smaller, especially in older more established cities like Vienna. Suburban living just doesn't happen. Things will be cramped. Also keep in mind that depending on where you go/what you look for, infrastructure is older as well.

Cultural differences: Remember, you'll more than likely be considered a racist American pig in Europe. The only reason locals will tolerate you is because you have money and you'll spend it like an American.

Half a world away: If you deal with family state-side a lot, there's going to be a massive time difference making things a bit awkward. Isolation from your friends/family may leave you a bit depressed. If you're going into this with an open mind ready to explore new things, then you should be okay. Remember - life's an adventure!

I have actually spent a lot of time abroad for the company in Europe, so I know what to expect somewhat. Of course I have heard that you get treated a bit differently when you are tourist vs. someone who lives there...but honestly I have nothing to positive things to say on how my German colleagues have treated us. I honestly have not spent a lot of time in Vienna, but it regularly is listed as a top place to live.

We are fine with small spaces, I actually dislike large places (like I hate large bags). The more space you have, the more likelihood you have of filling it up with junk.

 

[PricklyPete]

The German that you speak in Austria is somewhat unrecognizable by native German speakers. But Vienna is probably the best shot at using high German.

German isn't the official language, though, is it? My boss is Austrian and she hates speaking German.

Anyway, you should have a blast. Vienna is a cool place and you will become addicted to the wurst carts. Just beware that they have this thing called "snow" during what it called "winter." A shock to southern Floridians, I'm sure.

Almost the whole office is staffed with native Germans with the exception of one girl. I'm pretty sure the official language of Austria is German...I'd have to check.

I am originally from NY/CT, went to college in SC (married there as well), and then lived in St. Louis and now Ft. Lauderdale for a ~2 year stints. I'm not too worried about the weather...although it might be a bit of a shock to my wife...she's gotten used to it here.

 

[PricklyPete]

SunnyD brings up some very valid points, let me just add and repeat some of them.

I currently live in Northern Italy and have visited Austria a few times. Some things I've noticed.

Cost of living is going to be higher, probably much higher. If you're being located close to Salzburg... expect to have much higher expenses for everything. Gasoline is a big thing to consider. Right now gas is about 1.3 euro per LITER. Comes out to about $6 a gallon. So try to live close to where you'll work.

Get your visas in order. Find an Austrian Embassy close to you and shoot them and e-mail. Explain everything going on. Get this done ASAP as visas can take a long time to process. Bringing a car? Or buying one? Check out shipping costs if you are bringing a car. Dogs? Not sure if they have to get quarantined for X amount of time coming into the EU. Insurance is also going to go up, you're American... it's going to go up. Check to see if your current insurer will even offer coverage there. Start reading up on getting an international license.

Next culture, Austrians I've observed are pretty good. Promptness is cultural and appreciated (exact opposite of italians). But is your wife planning to work? Does she know some Austrian or german already? If she cant communicate with anyone or has nothing to do, she may become unhappy.

But don't let all of these seeming cons deter you. It's a gorgeous country with wonderful food and culture (mozart was born there). You'll also be poised to visit MANY countries in the area.

I'll post more if I think of anything else. I wrote this out pretty quick. Hope it helps! And if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask, I'll answer the best I can.

--edits--
-electronics will cost more... buy your goodies now.
-start checking to see if your electronics take 220v. That's the voltage over here. If you only have 110v stuff you'll need transformers

Thanks for the heads up. My understanding is that if I am payed out of the Austrian office, than I will get state healthcare for both myself and my wife (this is what i have gleamed from reading the internet). Of course, this is some of the details I need to work out with my company, but it is very high on my list especially since we plan on starting a family in the next 3 years.

I speak a little more German than she does, but both of us are beginners at best. I can "read" German as I have to go over a LOT of technical documents in German. But speaking/understanding I need a lot of work. As I said, my wife is much farther off. She may be able to continue some contract work with her company (she already works remote), but this will certainly cut down on her work time. Making sure she enjoys it will be very high on my priority list. We will likely sign up for German classes to take together here shortly to spend what time we have before we head over there learning together.

 

[Capt Caveman]

What would you do with your dogs?

 

[PricklyPete]

Who pays for moving expenses?

Who pays for them if you quit or terminate your contract early?

Do you have it in writing that they will take care of your work/resident visas for you and your wife? Will she even receive a work visa?

Again, still working through the details, but they will definitely pay for my move over there...what we are going to move is a different matter (not sure what we want to bother bringing).

They will definitely get me a Visa...but I doubt that extends to my wife at all. That will be something I need to look into.

As for moving back expenses. If I'm still with the company, I'm sure they would pay...but I do need to think about something in the contract that will pay for a move back if things don't work out.

 

[SunnyD]

I have actually spent a lot of time abroad for the company in Europe, so I know what to expect somewhat. Of course I have heard that you get treated a bit differently when you are tourist vs. someone who lives there...but honestly I have nothing to positive things to say on how my German colleagues have treated us. I honestly have not spent a lot of time in Vienna, but it regularly is listed as a top place to live.

We are fine with small spaces, I actually dislike large places (like I hate large bags). The more space you have, the more likelihood you have of filling it up with junk.

Colleagues are one thing, but I'm talking about the population at large.

Other than that, it sounds like you are pretty much packed. Have fun... post pictures.

 

[PricklyPete]

yeah items designed for travel (laptops, cellphones, ect) usually have universal power bricks and adapters are fine. But things like Microwaves, TVs, blue-ray player, washer/dryer, receivers made in the states usually are not.

We won't be bringing any of our Appliances with us. I'll likely store what we want to keep in the US in a cheap storage unit in SC.

 

[PricklyPete]

You all can't make such blanket statements about cost of living.

If you live in DC, NY, or many parts of California, then relocating to say Paris, Amsterdam, Munich, Vienna, London, Rome/Milan would be on par or slightly more expensive in some cases. Fuel/energy costs are without a doubt higher. As is the price per sq-meter in many cases. I pay about 2000 EUR for about 90 sq-meters in DC and from what I have been told, I could expect to pay the same amount for the same space in Amsterdam. But that's me. If I paid 1000 EUR for 200 sq-meters in Florida, I would be in for a shock.

I think an important decision to make is as follows:

1. Do you want to live closer to a city center with access to thorough public transport and opt to live in a smaller, more expensive apartment with no car?

2. Live outside of a city center, still commute by train (30 minutes or so), have a very small car, and a slightly larger apartment for slightly lower or similar rent as the first option?

I already pay $2000 a month for my apartment down here, so I don't think it ill be much different over there. We will have to make our decision on how close we want to live and whether we want to bring a car over or not. I'm 100% sure I will sell my car before the move...not sure about my wife's. Again, still a lot of details need to be worked out as it is pretty likely that I would end up with a company car.

 

[PricklyPete]

Personally, I wouldn't do it, but I'm probably a lot more resistant to change than most people. Here are some things to think about.

1. Get a contract that's valid in the US and Austria. Be sure it includes separation clauses where they have to give you a good amount of notice and severance pay (ex. 2-3 months), so that you don't just get laid off one day without time to arrange transport home and without money to continue living there.

2. Your personality and your wife's. If you aren't the type that can make new friends easily, you are probably going to end up spending a lot of time alone. This could adversely affect your marriage after a while, especially if your wife doesn't have a work visa and employable skills in Austria.

3. Exchange rates. You are coming back here at some point. Find out if you are being paid in USD or Euros. If USD, you're going to eat exchange fees now. If Euros, you're going to eat exchange fees later and potentially lose a lot of money if the dollar tanks against the Euro. Who knows where the exchange rate will be in 3 years?

4. Existing debt payments. I'm assuming you're like most people and you have some debt. This could be your mortgage (are you going to sell your house?), cars, student loans, credit cards, etc. You need to figure out how you're going to get and pay these monthly bills. If your company is paying you in Euros at an Austrian bank, you'll probably have to do a monthly transfer to a US bank and write checks/echecks against that. You will probably incur fees for this.

5. Luxuries/convenience. I haven't been to Europe yet, but my understanding is that it's pretty different from your typical American lifestyle. You aren't going to go for a nice Sunday drive at $6+/gallon for gas. You aren't going to have a fast food or pizza place on every corner. Your apartment is going to be smaller and probably older. Many other small things.

Thanks again for the advice.

My biggest concern will be keeping my wife happy being so far away from family and forcing her to learn another language, so that is my top concern.

I am pretty sure I will be paid in Euros...so we'll see how that works out.

As for debt, the only thing we have debt wise is our house and we are already renting that out...so we'll probably continue to do so.

My wife and I already eat in 99% of the time (I love her cooking). I think that we will be abel to handle the differences between the way the cultures spend money well...at least I think so.

 

[PricklyPete]

Which company? Are they hiring?

It is a small German company. PM me if you have SAP experience.

 

[PricklyPete]

Check with a tax specialist as well... something like up to $91,000 of your income is exempt from taxes. You can file a deduction for some taxes here in the states... so I think you can also get deductions for some of the taxes paid overseas as well. This should help your bottom line.

Finalize some of the details of responsibilities.. housing, car, etc.. but hell Austria? I would leave in a heartbeat if I had the chance.

That is my next step...to talk to a CPA about what the best tax strategy is. I want to know that before I start working through the details with my company.

 

[PricklyPete]

What would you do with your dogs?

Dogs are definitely coming with us. From what I have read, we just have to have them certified by a vet that certain shots have been given to them and then we pack'em on a plane. Shouldn't be an issue.