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Work is having me sign some legal agreement. Question about it.

B

brandonb

Diamond Member
Hi all,

I have a question. My work is going through and writing a bunch of policies and forcing the employees to sign all this paperwork.

Well, I received some paperwork yesterday that basically says that I have access to confidential company information. I need to treat it as such. So far so good, I get it.

Now, one of the lines on here is:

I will not misuse or carelessly handle confidential information. I will safeguard all confidential information of which I have access.
Click to expand...

This is a completely subjective line in this agreement. What I consider careless might not be the same as what they consider careless.

Now later on in the document:

I understand that my failure to comply with this agreement may result in immediate termination of these access codes and/or authorizations, as well as legal action against my company and me.
Click to expand...

So they are saying if something happened, they can sue me.

Now this is where I have a problem. They have forced me to have a laptop, in which I have to bring home nightly. They say its for "disaster recovery purposes" meaning if there is a fire in the office I can work offsite, etc. I don't want this laptop. I've asked for a desktop.

They already dinged one of my employees because he left his laptop in his car and it was stolen out of it one day while he picked up groceries from the store on the way home. They said he could have safeguarded the laptop by going home first and dropping it off before going to the grocery store. Of course he countered saying "My house could be burglarized when I went to the store. So what difference does it make?" They wanted nothing of it... Saying its more likely for a thief to steal from a car than a house. The concept of "shit happens" did not exist.

Under this agreement, they could sue him because his laptop was stolen because the company deemed him negligent.

I don't want to put myself into that position.

Now I know most will just say "Sign it, who cares?" But I don't like the subjective wording in it. But I don't like being responsible for something I don't want in the first place.

Is there something I can do here?
 
Well, you could consider the likelihood that you will violate the terms of the contract so egregiously that they would actually consider bringing a lawsuit against you. For example, the fellow who had a laptop stolen form his car; was he sued? Do you think that you'll commit a worse violation than he did? Just because they throw that clause in there doesn't mean they'll ever actually invoke it.
 
Is there something I can do here?
Click to expand...
Change jobs. Companies don't want their valued info getting out. Can't blame them.

Companies in my industry do the same. Some disgruntled employee could take/sell/publish personal information and the company could get sued.

Couple of months back, 2007 (?) paperwork (applications, ss#, DL copies, contracts, etc) was put out behind a loan company for anyone to find. Most likely an ex employee trying to cause problems. So far the company has offered credit report security for all of it's customers. That's a nice hit to the wallet.
 
brandonb said:
Hi all,

I have a question. My work is going through and writing a bunch of policies and forcing the employees to sign all this paperwork.

Well, I received some paperwork yesterday that basically says that I have access to confidential company information. I need to treat it as such. So far so good, I get it.

Now, one of the lines on here is:



This is a completely subjective line in this agreement. What I consider careless might not be the same as what they consider careless.

Now later on in the document:



So they are saying if something happened, they can sue me.

Now this is where I have a problem. They have forced me to have a laptop, in which I have to bring home nightly. They say its for "disaster recovery purposes" meaning if there is a fire in the office I can work offsite, etc. I don't want this laptop. I've asked for a desktop.

They already dinged one of my employees because he left his laptop in his car and it was stolen out of it one day while he picked up groceries from the store on the way home. They said he could have safeguarded the laptop by going home first and dropping it off before going to the grocery store. Of course he countered saying "My house could be burglarized when I went to the store. So what difference does it make?" They wanted nothing of it... Saying its more likely for a thief to steal from a car than a house. The concept of "shit happens" did not exist.

Under this agreement, they could sue him because his laptop was stolen because the company deemed him negligent.

I don't want to put myself into that position.

Now I know most will just say "Sign it, who cares?" But I don't like the subjective wording in it. But I don't like being responsible for something I don't want in the first place.

Is there something I can do here?
Click to expand...

regarding working from home, will they pay you for an internet connection? pay storage costs for keeping their gear in your house?
 
Sounds like they setting it up so they can use the "carelessly handle" reason for terminating you in the future because they don't like or need you anymore without getting sued for wrongful termination.
 
Atomic Playboy said:
Well, you could consider the likelihood that you will violate the terms of the contract so egregiously that they would actually consider bringing a lawsuit against you. For example, the fellow who had a laptop stolen form his car; was he sued? Do you think that you'll commit a worse violation than he did? Just because they throw that clause in there doesn't mean they'll ever actually invoke it.
Click to expand...

No, he was not sued; They did suspend him without pay for a few days though. As far as I know, nothing on the laptop was leaked out.

But just the other day I had my work laptop in my car, and ran in to grab a soda from the local gas station. I came back to my car and noticed my car unlocked. I had an "oh shit" moment realizing I forgot to lock my car that one time in my old age. If it was stolen and the car was unlocked, off with my head. I could be held personally liable for anything that could have leaked out from the incident. Luckily, nobody stole anything.

Granted, I understand companies want to put safeguards in to protect their data/interests. I just don't like being held personally liable for something I don't want as a responsibility. (Having a laptop I have to cart around)

Should I just asked them again I want a desktop, and if I get one, I will sign the paperwork? But as long as I have a laptop I won't? Not sure how that would go over.
 
her209 said:
Sounds like they setting it up so they can use the "carelessly handle" reason for terminating you in the future because they don't like or need you anymore without getting sued for wrongful termination.
Click to expand...

It's already "at will" employment, and the paperwork is going out to everybody in the company to sign.
 
tommo123 said:
regarding working from home, will they pay you for an internet connection? pay storage costs for keeping their gear in your house?
Click to expand...

Nope. Nope... And no overtime for the extra hours I already work. But they do provide me a free cell phone. Which has work email on it, and again would be under this agreement. If I lost my phone negligently, the same rules would apply.
 
If they are concerned about security have a full disk encryption put on it with a password that is 20 some characters long. Good luck cracking that. Worst case they are out the replacement cost of the laptop.

But reality is that they sound like a shitty company to work for with the way they blame employees. I have to carry a laptop home daily but have to stop and pick up kids at two different places. There's a chance it could get stolen either of them. It's a risk you have to take if you actually have a life and leave your office. At least my employer provides some level of security on the device because it's a requirement in our field (healthcare).
 
man if they are really hard up about this IT should have laptop bios paasword, power on password, admin bios password, hard drive password, hard drive encrypted, remote wipe.
 
This sounds like a basic policy. Your signature simply states that you received a copy. The policy will be in force whether or not you sign it, and they can discipline you for not signing it.
 
If the stuff you work on is really that important, it doesn't seem like sending every employee home with said confidential material is a good idea. Who thinks up these policies?
 
I try to hide valuables like a laptop under the seat in a car if it fits before going into a store. The problem with having a laptop anywhere in the car in freaking southern CA is the heat in the daytime on most days. Possibility of messing up the electronics.

I've driven home with electronic items as part of my work just to keep them out of the heat when having to do other chores in the car. Can't leave the car windows down in a lot.
 
Policy sounds normal, but their enforcement of it with regards to your co-worker sounds pretty shitty. Even if they consider it negligent for him to leave it in his car on the way home from work, a decent company realizes that shit happens and has insurance and policies in place for this. If you are handling anything even remotely sensitive, your laptops should be using something like BitLocker.
 
its standard, i had to sign it at one place. People would get fired for leaving "confidential" documents on the table overnight, basically forgetting to lock them up before leaving.
 
brandonb said:
Hi all,

I have a question. My work is going through and writing a bunch of policies and forcing the employees to sign all this paperwork.

Well, I received some paperwork yesterday that basically says that I have access to confidential company information. I need to treat it as such. So far so good, I get it.

Now, one of the lines on here is:



This is a completely subjective line in this agreement. What I consider careless might not be the same as what they consider careless.

Now later on in the document:



So they are saying if something happened, they can sue me.

Now this is where I have a problem. They have forced me to have a laptop, in which I have to bring home nightly. They say its for "disaster recovery purposes" meaning if there is a fire in the office I can work offsite, etc. I don't want this laptop. I've asked for a desktop.

They already dinged one of my employees because he left his laptop in his car and it was stolen out of it one day while he picked up groceries from the store on the way home. They said he could have safeguarded the laptop by going home first and dropping it off before going to the grocery store. Of course he countered saying "My house could be burglarized when I went to the store. So what difference does it make?" They wanted nothing of it... Saying its more likely for a thief to steal from a car than a house. The concept of "shit happens" did not exist.

Under this agreement, they could sue him because his laptop was stolen because the company deemed him negligent.

I don't want to put myself into that position.

Now I know most will just say "Sign it, who cares?" But I don't like the subjective wording in it. But I don't like being responsible for something I don't want in the first place.

Is there something I can do here?
Click to expand...

refuse to sign it.
they cant legally make u sign anything AFTER you start working for them, while in the same position
 
Thanks all.

I signed it. Someone keeps coming by asking me to sign it every hour. I don't have any intention staying at this company much longer (depends on me finding a new job) so I hope it doesn't come back to bite me before I'm out of here. I just won't bring the laptop home. I'll leave it on my desk nightly. They can refer to their security cameras if something happens. And if I can't work if there is a disaster. Too bad!
 
Usual ATOT armchair IANAL disclaimer applies.

Normally, from what I understand, things like you have here:

I will not misuse or carelessly handle confidential information. I will safeguard all confidential information of which I have access.
Click to expand...

A court won't enforce a contract that is implicitly vague like that unless there are some sort of addendum which explicit examples of what "misuse" and "carelessly" are categorized by the company, except in obvious cases of negligence (aka: common sense).

For example, your coworker's argument would have a fair shot in court by this document's standards. Assuming your coworker's laptop was in the car, the doors were locked, and the laptop wasn't explicitly labeled "Company Laptop with Proprietary Information, Please Steal Me" while sitting on the dash, then he safeguarded it to the best of his ability short of leaving it at the place of employment.

I understand that my failure to comply with this agreement may result in immediate termination of these access codes and/or authorizations, as well as legal action against my company and me.
Click to expand...

They can do this anyway if they have a suspicion that your actions lead to dissemination of proprietary information. They're just putting it on paper.

You have the option of not signing the document, which means you have the option of finding a new job.

My strategy would be to sign the document, and leave the laptop at work when I leave for the day. Inform your company that you will not be responsible for company property while not on company time.
 
I've had questions about work contacts before that were really vague, I've either gotten things struck or changed (in the case of new hires where it might conflict with my existing commitments) or I've talked to my lawyer about the implications.

The best advice I can give you is one he gave me when I want into consulting. The agency had a contract that had this vague non-solicit that basically said I couldn't knowingly solicit any customers or prospective customers. It did not define what a 'customer' or 'prospective customer' was.

He told me that I could work with them to further define the contract, but as it stood it was really vague and could easily be argued in court if I was ever taken to court. Then he said to realize that anyone can sue you at any time for any reason. Never worry about being sued, worry about what the contract says and if it is enforceable.

They could sue you tomorrow for knowingly leaking secrets or for leaving the toilet unflushed. The real question is if they can win. If the contract is as vague as you make it sound then the answer is probably not. (I am not a lawyer)

IMHO This document is a CYA document. It allows them to look good to customers and to CYA in case of a data breach. If a leak did happen, contract or not, you are probably going to get punished or fired (like your co-worker). If you are really worried, take it to a lawyer for review and get his advice.

Lastly, you really have three options in the end. (Maybe a combo of the 3)

1) Get them to amend the contract.
2) Sign it
3) Find a new job.
 
Every time my wife has her work laptop with her in the car, when she gets out she locks it in the trunk. Yes it can be stolen, but it is jut harder to steal if that way. Not an open invitation by sitting on the seat of a car.
 
"Transportation and storage of the laptop as required by work, e.g. bringing it home and carrying it on required means of transportation to reach home will not be considered as misuse or careless handling."

I have no idea how large your organization is but any reasonable manager would let you insert the above wording. If it's a large firm with a legal department, forget about it, just sign it or leave.
 
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