Woot! Made $200 this morning

bleckywelcky

Senior member
Sep 16, 2002
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Bought Delta Air Lines stock yesterday afternoon at $7.50, 250 shares. Sold this morning at $8.28, 250 shares. Made $195 minus $0.06 in SEC fees for a total of $194.94 for about an hour's work. Not too shabby if I might say so myself. Anyone else have some good short term success stories?

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Pastore

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
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Being as volatile as the market is these days, it could have just as easily went down and you would have been out $200...
 

bleckywelcky

Senior member
Sep 16, 2002
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Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
I stopped gambling a long time ago.

-PAB

Sure, if you throw darts at a stock board. But you gotta make educated guesses. If you do a little bit of research and get the right information, you'll win more than you lose. Yeh, it is gambling in the end, but it is much safer and more predictable than, say, many casino games. Out of the last 13 or 14 stocks I've taken, I ended up winning on all but 3 or 4 of em, with a total return on my money of about 20 to 25 percent over the last 3 or 4 months.. Just whatever you do, don't listen to stock brokers' picks or hot advice, they aren't worth a dime. Learn some of the key things to look for yourself and do the investigation/research on your own. You'll get more concise conclusions that way. You can consult a broker for an opinion on your analysis, but that's about it.

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FeathersMcGraw

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2001
4,041
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Originally posted by: bleckywelcky
Bought Delta Air Lines stock yesterday afternoon at $7.50, 250 shares. Sold this morning at $8.28, 250 shares. Made $195 minus $0.06 in SEC fees for a total of $194.94 for about an hour's work. Not too shabby if I might say so myself. Anyone else have some good short term success stories?

Don't forget to account for the chunk Uncle Sam is going to take out of that on a short-term capital gain.
 

bleckywelcky

Senior member
Sep 16, 2002
276
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Originally posted by: Beast1284
Being as volatile as the market is these days, it could have just as easily went down and you would have been out $200...

Well, they were making an earnings report this morning too. That was the only reason I bought it last night, I had some information possibly indicating the nature of the earnings report they were going to make (not insider info though, :p). If you do buy stocks right in the middle of one of their fiscal quarters, your chances of movement (up or down) are much more unpredictable unless there is other good or bad news.

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kherman

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: bleckywelcky
Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
I stopped gambling a long time ago.

-PAB

Sure, if you throw darts at a stock board. But you gotta make educated guesses. If you do a little bit of research and get the right information, you'll win more than you lose. Yeh, it is gambling in the end, but it is much safer and more predictable than, say, many casino games. Out of the last 13 or 14 stocks I've taken, I ended up winning on all but 3 or 4 of em, with a total return on my money of about 20 to 25 percent over the last 3 or 4 months.. Just whatever you do, don't listen to stock brokers' picks or hot advice, they aren't worth a dime. Learn some of the key things to look for yourself and do the investigation/research on your own. You'll get more concise conclusions that way. You can consult a broker for an opinion on your analysis, but that's about it.

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I used to do what your doing. Trust me, you will stop in due time. Yes, I did the research like you did for about 4 months and was up about 90% when you calculated the annualized return. The time/headache/emotion/stress involved in day trading is not worth it, especially after you pay taxes on all those gains. Do you really think you can perform consistantly for the next 20 years? Warren Buffet, one of the greatest investors ever, made his money by being a value investor. he does not day trade.

my story: I went into about 15 stocks before buying LLTC @$38. Today it's trading at $25. Yes, I should have never bought LLTC@$38. Emotion got in the way. It's just a matter of time until you get burned. I worked with long term investors and I told them what I was doing, so I'll tell you what they told me.

"I wish you the best in your strategy, I just hope you get burned early."

I learned the error of my ways and I got burned early. The only thing I have going for me is that LLTC is a very solid company and they are a good long term hold. That was part of the short term strategy though. only buy stocks I am willing to hold for the long run. I once made 8% in a single day. My strategy was AWESOME!

"A rising tide lifts all boats"

Debate myself and others that have followed the path you're on. I dare ya.
 

bleckywelcky

Senior member
Sep 16, 2002
276
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Originally posted by: kherman
Above, no need to repeat everything.

Well it depends on your definition of a day trader/day trading. If you feel like you have to stay and watch several stocks the entire day and track all sorts of movements, news releases, etc, while holding down another job, family, or school schedule - then yes, I'd imagine someone could get burnt out really fast trying to do that sort of thing. But if you have some experience and/or credentials and just want to do that sort of day trading, you could just go get a job with a day trading company that'll give you a steady wage no matter what, but also a small percentage of your gains (though, quite small in comparison to the sum whole since they are giving you a wage already). But I think there is definitely more to short term trading than just day trading. The purchases I make are made in advancement of important anouncements (typically earnings reports) and what I research is the anouncement itself. Once I find an anouncement for a company that the common prediction seems too conservative for, I will buy into the company, betting on a more liberal anouncement than expected. I'll wait for the anouncement and react accordingly to the results. I like to think of it as day-by-day trading rather than day trading. I don't tend to sit around and watch stocks for any majority of the day - although I do research during my off time. After classes are over, I come home and spend some time each day looking into promising anouncements and then buy accordingly prior to the anouncement. I'll sell immediately after the anouncement has been made, hopefully reaping the profits, and then move on to other tasks for the rest of the day. I spend maybe an hour per day on average looking at and/or researching companies and announcements.

Yes, it is quite a bit riskier than long term investing, but I'm still quite young and in college. If someone is closer to retirement (say half way or more) they would definitely want more secure investments with predictable returns. I will gradually move into longer term investments as time goes on for the same reasons, and even devote small portions of my investments to long term positions in the very near future, but right now I can handle the risk and it is worth the returns. You can get burned, but if you act quickly on the results of your previous actions you can minimize the damage and move on (as I have done a few times already). You will really only get severely burned if you aren't watching the actions you take closely. I made a purchase of HP-Compaq at the end of one day and planned on selling the following day after an earnings report, but I slept in through the morning and missed my chance to make 2 to 3 percent. I kept sitting on it because I was then breaking even but wanted to at least cover my trading costs. It tanked in the following weeks and I was out about $200 bucks, but it then turned into a long term investment since the stock was now undervalued and following steady trends up over the next few weeks. I was kicking myself in the arse for that, but it was a lesson in paying attention and not slacking, not one that indicated short term trading (or just day trading) is bad. If day trading was something to be avoided like the plague, why would there be so much infrastructure devoted to it, and so many people involved in it?

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kherman

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: bleckywelcky
Originally posted by: kherman
Above, no need to repeat everything.

Well it depends on your definition of a day trader/day trading.

.......

If day trading was something to be avoided like the plague, why would there be so much infrastructure devoted to it, and so many people involved in it?

-

I forget the term for what you're doing. It's between day trading(less than 1 day holds) and intermediate term trading(2-5 days). I was using similar strategyies as you. I won about 14 times and lost maybe 3 times, just like you. I was doing what is commonly referred to as swing trading (1-2 week holds). It's funny that the strategy you're using is something you are not aware of. You know what you're doing, to a very limited extent, but you really don't know what you're getting involved in. You can explain it all you want, but you must realize you're not the first to attempt what you're attempting and most previous to you have failed.

$2000? Is this a Roth-IRA?

"but I slept in through the morning and missed my chance to make 2 to 3 percent. I kept sitting on it because I was then breaking even but wanted to at least cover my trading costs. It tanked in the following weeks and I was out about $200 bucks, but it then turned into a long term investment since the stock was now undervalued and following steady trends up over the next few weeks. "
I have to ask you a question pertaining to one of the golden rules of the strategy you are using:
Where was your stop?

"Why is there an infrasturcture for day trading?"
You pay fees for every trade you place don't you? I do. If not, please tell me your broker so I can transfer my account immediately. Brokers are not interested in making you money, they are interested in placing trades for you so they can collect their fee.

"...and so many people involved in it?"
Ignorance is mostly the reason. If you realized by these posts, and what I have heard, is that most people that were day trading two years ago, are no longer doing so and state tehy never will again. "A rising tides lifts all boats"

From personal experience, I know I can't teach you why, you have to truely learn the lesson through exprerience like I and many others here have. Like previously stated:
"I wish you the best in your strategy, I just hope you get burned early."

 

Zipp

Senior member
Apr 7, 2001
791
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My most sucesful trade was one during the dot com mania. This is how crazy it was back then.

This company called Florida Banks announced that they were going to be offering on-line banking(or something to that affect) so I typed in the ticker symbol just to check out the company and noticed the stock price was climbing up at a steady rate in a matter of minutes.

So it's up to 15 now and still climbing so I take the chance and grab 200 shares@15 and sat there and just watch it go up and up and a couple hours later I sold it around 29 something. I made close to 3000 that afternoon.

The next day it opened up over 30 but then reality set in and it went back to right where it started from.

Crazy days

I no longer day trade.To much stress,to much risk.

 

Aceshigh

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2002
2,529
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Buy and hold is no sure thing either. Ive been long on Intel (INTC) since 1998. My cost basis is $76. Right now its trading at $16.03.:(
 

kherman

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: Aceshigh
Buy and hold is no sure thing either. Ive been long on Intel (INTC) since 1998. My cost basis is $76. Right now its trading at $16.03.:(

Well, INTC is just one of your stocks. How are your others doing?
 

kherman

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: bmacd
i wish i understood the stock market.

-=bmacd=-

The market isn't hard to understand really.

Buy a stock and you are now part owner of the company.

It's really just a matter of finding "good companies" to get into at a fair price.

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
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mmm intel...

i bought dell in 1997 at 88 and now its about 25 :(
 

Aceshigh

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2002
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Originally posted by: kherman
Originally posted by: Aceshigh
Buy and hold is no sure thing either. Ive been long on Intel (INTC) since 1998. My cost basis is $76. Right now its trading at $16.03.:(

Well, INTC is just one of your stocks. How are your others doing?

INTC is the only individual stock I own. I went into it because I had a personal connection with the company. The rest of my holdings are in mutual funds, which are all down (not to the extent of intel), but on average they are down 20% to 45% since I started investing back in 1998.
 

kherman

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: Aceshigh
Originally posted by: kherman
Originally posted by: Aceshigh
Buy and hold is no sure thing either. Ive been long on Intel (INTC) since 1998. My cost basis is $76. Right now its trading at $16.03.:(

Well, INTC is just one of your stocks. How are your others doing?

INTC is the only individual stock I own. I went into it because I had a personal connection with the company. The rest of my holdings are in mutual funds, which are all down (not to the extent of intel), but on average they are down 20% to 45% since I started investing back in 1998.

Well, other than your INTC(401K?) you are fairly diversified. I would perosnally take my money out of most mutual funds and do other investments. The good news is, that since you're diversified, you will make out in the long run. You have nothing to worry about.
 

bleckywelcky

Senior member
Sep 16, 2002
276
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I forget the term for what you're doing. It's between day trading(less than 1 day holds) and intermediate term trading(2-5 days). I was using similar strategyies as you. I won about 14 times and lost maybe 3 times, just like you. I was doing what is commonly referred to as swing trading (1-2 week holds). It's funny that the strategy you're using is something you are not aware of. You know what you're doing, to a very limited extent, but you really don't know what you're getting involved in. You can explain it all you want, but you must realize you're not the first to attempt what you're attempting and most previous to you have failed.

I realize that I'm not an expert in the subject, and that even if I win for several months in a row I still am not an expert by any means, just that my guesses have been educated enough that I ended up winning a majority of the time. But, most of the information you need to make educated guesses is freely available (or at a very low cost) online or elsewhere. Income statements, balance sheets, and cash flow statements are archived online, and the past 4 quarters are readily available on many main stream financial sites. Most main stream financial sites provide standarized historical trends and corresponding data with their own analysis and the ability for you to make an individual analysis. There are many trading strategy sites that not only provide basic tutorials for the beginner but more advanced ideas and forums to discuss trading topics and strategies (one that readily comes to mind is Fool.com). Information like this has been present in many other fields and people become quite good in those fields just by reading and soaking up that information (ie programming, networking, and other computer related skills - I know people, and I have been to some extent, who were self taught through online documentation).

I was doing what is commonly referred to as swing trading (1-2 week holds).

I have a set of rules I use to determine my actions in various situation, I don't do what you are talking about here - I hold 2 days max. Swing trading as you have described it (1-2 week holds) can kill anyone quickly, no matter their expertise. In a volatile market like this your stocks can easily swing +/- 15% in a week. On a day by day basis your stocks will typically swing +/- 2% or 3% max. The only exception was with my HP-Compaq position, where I broke my rule and held on. I shouldn't have done that, it was a mistake, if I would have let go of the stock I would have been out maybe $10 to $20. Instead, I hung on because the stock was currently undervalued (although not by a large amount) and it tanked lower. I let my emotions get to me that time (even though I was able to easily let go on a couple other stocks earlier that lost me $20 to $30 each)

$2000? Is this a Roth-IRA?

Nope, just some spare change that I've dumped into in Ameritrade.com account. I currently am using two accounts, each started with $2000, the first one messed up on the HP-Compaq trade, so I opened up the second one so that I could still do some trading while I waited for HP-Compaq to come back.

You pay fees for every trade you place don't you? I do. If not, please tell me your broker so I can transfer my account immediately. Brokers are not interested in making you money, they are interested in placing trades for you so they can collect their fee.

Actually I do get my trades for free. The only fees I pay are the SEC fees (junk change on large enough sales) and a wire fee ($15) whenever I open a new account. Ameritrade allows you an unlimited number of accounts and 25 free trades on every new account. At my current rate I use 25 trades in about 2 months. I called up the Ameritrade customer service and explicitly asked them if they cared if someone were to keep closing and opening accounts to continually get 25 free trades - they said no, because enough customers simple want to hold long term positions, only modifying them once in a while, and won't go through the hassle of opening new accounts. That the people who are willing to continually open new accounts are also the ones who pay for the extra streaming services, charging up a good amount of monthly fees. As long as they don't change their policy, I won't mind spending 5 to 10 minutes filling out an application in order to save 25 * $8 - $15 = $185 (or with the upcoming new rates 25 * $10.99 - $15 = $259.75).

"but I slept in through the morning and missed my chance to make 2 to 3 percent. I kept sitting on it because I was then breaking even but wanted to at least cover my trading costs. It tanked in the following weeks and I was out about $200 bucks, but it then turned into a long term investment since the stock was now undervalued and following steady trends up over the next few weeks. "

I have to ask you a question pertaining to one of the golden rules of the strategy you are using:
Where was your stop?


Yes, I broke my rules on that trade, and I payed dearly. If I hadn't broke my rules, I would've only lost $10 to $20 and moved on. My rules are to drop losers at a certain percentage, giving them that much space to turn around. Also, I drop winners at a certain percantage because I have already achieved what I wanted. The only reason I made $200 on Delta was because as soon as it opened, it was already at $8.30. The drop to $8.28 where I sold it was the time it took me to open up my Ameritrade account and click sell.


"...and so many people involved in it?"
Ignorance is mostly the reason. If you realized by these posts, and what I have heard, is that most people that were day trading two years ago, are no longer doing so and state tehy never will again. "A rising tides lifts all boats"

From personal experience, I know I can't teach you why, you have to truely learn the lesson through exprerience like I and many others here have. Like previously stated:
"I wish you the best in your strategy, I just hope you get burned early."


I heed their warnings but would like to know how they messed up. Was it a break in their rules? Did they just get sick of the hassle? Were they merely matching long term returns? If these were partial reasons, fine. If I broke enough rules that it hurt me, I would quit. If I get tired of what little hassle I deal with, I'll quit. If you can't beat long term returns effectively, then you should quit. The point of these strategies are to beat long term returns. I'm not saying nothing will ever creep up on my and this strategy, but that I would jump ship when it does creep up on me and minimize my losses. Perhaps these people didn't jump ship fast enough?

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kherman

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2002
1,511
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Originally posted by: bleckywelcky
I forget the term for what you're doing. It's between day trading(less than 1 day holds) and intermediate term trading(2-5 days). I was using similar strategyies as you. I won about 14 times and lost maybe 3 times, just like you. I was doing what is commonly referred to as swing trading (1-2 week holds). It's funny that the strategy you're using is something you are not aware of. You know what you're doing, to a very limited extent, but you really don't know what you're getting involved in. You can explain it all you want, but you must realize you're not the first to attempt what you're attempting and most previous to you have failed.

I realize that I'm not an expert in the subject, and that even if I win for several months in a row I still am not an expert by any means, just that my guesses have been educated enough that I ended up winning a majority of the time. But, most of the information you need to make educated guesses is freely available (or at a very low cost) online or elsewhere. Income statements, balance sheets, and cash flow statements are archived online, and the past 4 quarters are readily available on many main stream financial sites. Most main stream financial sites provide standarized historical trends and corresponding data with their own analysis and the ability for you to make an individual analysis. There are many trading strategy sites that not only provide basic tutorials for the beginner but more advanced ideas and forums to discuss trading topics and strategies (one that readily comes to mind is Fool.com). Information like this has been present in many other fields and people become quite good in those fields just by reading and soaking up that information (ie programming, networking, and other computer related skills - I know people, and I have been to some extent, who were self taught through online documentation).
Yes, you have a strategy. I know. That something all good investor's have. I've had mine and so has everyone else before you. I went from long term, to swing trading and now I'm back to long term w/ occasional covered calls.

I'm afraid to go look at Delta Airlines financial info. Also, I'd hate to point this out to you, but all stocks went up today. Remember my comment about "A rising tide raises all boats." You could have bought any stock yesterday at close and made money this morning. Alcoa could have also laid off 2000 people this morning, driving your stock into the ground. Emotion is what drives the short term market.

Go look at Value Line at your towns library. Your school probably doesn't carry it. it is the best source for amateur investors out there.
I was doing what is commonly referred to as swing trading (1-2 week holds).

I have a set of rules I use to determine my actions in various situation, I don't do what you are talking about here - I hold 2 days max. Swing trading as you have described it (1-2 week holds) can kill anyone quickly, no matter their expertise. In a volatile market like this your stocks can easily swing +/- 15% in a week. On a day by day basis your stocks will typically swing +/- 2% or 3% max. The only exception was with my HP-Compaq position, where I broke my rule and held on. I shouldn't have done that, it was a mistake, if I would have let go of the stock I would have been out maybe $10 to $20. Instead, I hung on because the stock was currently undervalued (although not by a large amount) and it tanked lower. I let my emotions get to me that time (even though I was able to easily let go on a couple other stocks earlier that lost me $20 to $30 each)
Umm, if you make +/-3% every 2 business days, you could also make +/-15% every two weeks. Your just using the law of averages to reduce your beta in the short term. I'll use your other comments against you later. In a year, if I make 40 good/10 bad trades, you probably made 200 good/50 bad. Annualized, we'll still do the same.

Part of your investment strategy is to make 2% every 2 days. is your strategy working? Is this your strategy?

The terms day trading, intermediate term trading and swing trading should all have come up in your studies of 2 day trading, especially after doing so for 4 months. If you don't know these terms, you should do so now. After trading for 4 months, I knew something about every short-term strategy out there. Funny thing is, I havn't heard you say once, that you do what successful day traders do. I've even mentioned it to you. What do you know about Japanese Candlestick charting techniques?
$2000? Is this a Roth-IRA?

Nope, just some spare change that I've dumped into in Ameritrade.com account. I currently am using two accounts, each started with $2000, the first one messed up on the HP-Compaq trade, so I opened up the second one so that I could still do some trading while I waited for HP-Compaq to come back.
A ROTH-IRA is the best thing that could ever happen to you. You can only contribute a max of $3000 or your income this year. Not sure how much you make at your summer job. Anyone who has been investing for a while will tell you to open the Roth_IRA ASAP.
You pay fees for every trade you place don't you? I do. If not, please tell me your broker so I can transfer my account immediately. Brokers are not interested in making you money, they are interested in placing trades for you so they can collect their fee.

Actually I do get my trades for free. The only fees I pay are the SEC fees (junk change on large enough sales) and a wire fee ($15) whenever I open a new account. Ameritrade allows you an unlimited number of accounts and 25 free trades on every new account. At my current rate I use 25 trades in about 2 months. I called up the Ameritrade customer service and explicitly asked them if they cared if someone were to keep closing and opening accounts to continually get 25 free trades - they said no, because enough customers simple want to hold long term positions, only modifying them once in a while, and won't go through the hassle of opening new accounts. That the people who are willing to continually open new accounts are also the ones who pay for the extra streaming services, charging up a good amount of monthly fees. As long as they don't change their policy, I won't mind spending 5 to 10 minutes filling out an application in order to save 25 * $8 - $15 = $185 (or with the upcoming new rates 25 * $10.99 - $15 = $259.75).
Very nice!
Too much of a hastle for long term holders like me.
"but I slept in through the morning and missed my chance to make 2 to 3 percent. I kept sitting on it because I was then breaking even but wanted to at least cover my trading costs. It tanked in the following weeks and I was out about $200 bucks, but it then turned into a long term investment since the stock was now undervalued and following steady trends up over the next few weeks. "

I have to ask you a question pertaining to one of the golden rules of the strategy you are using:
Where was your stop?


Yes, I broke my rules on that trade, and I payed dearly. If I hadn't broke my rules, I would've only lost $10 to $20 and moved on. My rules are to drop losers at a certain percentage, giving them that much space to turn around. Also, I drop winners at a certain percantage because I have already achieved what I wanted. The only reason I made $200 on Delta was because as soon as it opened, it was already at $8.30. The drop to $8.28 where I sold it was the time it took me to open up my Ameritrade account and click sell.


"...and so many people involved in it?"
Just should point out. not many people are involved in it anymore.
Ignorance is mostly the reason. If you realized by these posts, and what I have heard, is that most people that were day trading two years ago, are no longer doing so and state tehy never will again. "A rising tides lifts all boats"

From personal experience, I know I can't teach you why, you have to truely learn the lesson through exprerience like I and many others here have. Like previously stated:
"I wish you the best in your strategy, I just hope you get burned early."


I heed their warnings but would like to know how they messed up. Was it a break in their rules? Did they just get sick of the hassle? Were they merely matching long term returns? If these were partial reasons, fine. If I broke enough rules that it hurt me, I would quit. If I get tired of what little hassle I deal with, I'll quit. If you can't beat long term returns effectively, then you should quit. The point of these strategies are to beat long term returns. I'm not saying nothing will ever creep up on my and this strategy, but that I would jump ship when it does creep up on me and minimize my losses. Perhaps these people didn't jump ship fast enough?

-
Reason one:
"The only exception was with my HP-Compaq position, where I broke my rule and held on. I shouldn't have done that, it was a mistake, if I would have let go of the stock I would have been out maybe $10 to $20. Instead, I hung on because the stock was currently undervalued (although not by a large amount) and it tanked lower. I let my emotions get to me that time (even though I was able to easily let go on a couple other stocks earlier that lost me $20 to $30 each)"

Reason Two:
during hte tech boom, everybody was a genieous. Daytrading was mostly a fad jsut like junk bonds were in the 80s.

Reason Three:
amateurs. Most people, youself included, don't know what successful day traders do to be successful. Fact is, the succsesful ones won't tell you their secrets. The successful ones are not at fool.com's forums.

Reason etc .......
I'm surprised you didn't learn with HP-Compaq already. Wait till history repeats itself. Maybe ththe second time around you'll get it square in the nuts.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
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A buddy of mine who was a big daytrader during the dotcom bubble made $80,000 in 2 hours off of ebay one morning.
 

kherman

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2002
1,511
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I hope your strategy works and you continue to learn about the market.

It is very apparent that you think you're making the right decisions.

I hope that when you do learn your lesson that it is not a hefty price.

Good luck,
Karl
 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,899
1
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Originally posted by: Mani
A buddy of mine who was a big daytrader during the dotcom bubble made $80,000 in 2 hours off of ebay one morning.
What is he/she doing today?

 

kherman

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2002
1,511
0
0
Originally posted by: wje
Originally posted by: Mani
A buddy of mine who was a big daytrader during the dotcom bubble made $80,000 in 2 hours off of ebay one morning.
What is he/she doing today?

Probably begging for their old job back :)