Woot. Intel Pentium 4 + DDR (MSI 845 Ultra) REVIEW POSTED!

jeffrey

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2000
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"The following programs are included with the MSI 845 Ultra:

FuzzyLogic III: This is a program that allows the user to overclock the FSB of their MSI board from within Windows itself and can also be used to monitor system voltage settings, temperatures, and AGP memory clock speeds. Although most overclockers know how to manipulate a BIOS (or definitely should) this is a nice tweaking program to have handy."


Overclock within Windows :Q
 

WilsonTung

Senior member
Aug 25, 2001
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The performance is not impressive. I don't know why all the mobo makers were saying it is the next BX.
 

jeffrey

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2000
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Even though the BX was known for speed, I think the mobo manufacturers that you are referring to were talking about the 845D in terms of stability.
 

ST4RCUTTER

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2001
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Well, it beats the hell outta saddling the P4 with SDR SDRAM. I feel bad for all the poor sapps who got stuck with the orginal 845 chipset. They could have had this performance for the same price one month ago if Intel had renegotiated their contract with Rambus earlier.
 

Windogg

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,241
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Dump in some ECC DIMMs and it'll make a decent light server. The 440BX w/ ECC DIMMs was an unbeatable combination. Of course the BX could also take 2 CPUs.

Windogg
 

John

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
33,944
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<< If you are looking for the most powerful P4 platform available, have no objections to Rambus? behavior, and money is no object, the P4+i850 remains the fastest combination you can buy. If, on the other hand, you are interested in a P4 but have shyed away from VIA because of a reputation for flaky chipsets and have not wished to be involved with Rambus, the i845D chipset is an excellent choice. >>

 

jeffrey

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2000
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Wouldn't it have been great if they could have actually compared it to an i845 SDRAM chipset for goodness-sakes!!
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
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<< The Northbridge (or ICH) (pictured below) has a large heatsink + fan mount on it?easily one of the largest I?ve seen on a shipping motherboard. >>

This concerns me. If I get a p4+ddr I wouldn't want an extra fan as it adds noise. I hope this isn't required. :(
 

yaethom

Senior member
Jun 7, 2001
201
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Yeah, the performance is definitley not that impressive.

I'm still glad about my choice with the ECS P4S5A. Not only is it NOT a via-chipset, it is a P4 (478) with support for DDR 333 ram.
 

Midnight Rambler

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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<< I feel bad for all the poor sapps who got stuck with the orginal 845 chipset. They could have had this performance for the same price one month ago if Intel had renegotiated their contract with Rambus earlier. >>

Unfortunately this is just another one of those urban legends. There was no such thing as any "renegotiated" contract with RAMBUST, and any contract they have ever had has never prevented Intel from supporting other memory types. The FACT is that their contract required Intel to support RDRAM on a minimum of 20% of Intel's _total_ chipsets produced, in exchange for which Intel received options on RAMBUST stock (at a price that previously was very favorable for Intel, but currently worth far less due to RAMBUST's stock price flameout, that is, IF Intel hasn't already exercised them, in part or whole).

As for the new, not renegotiated contract ...

Intel and RAMBUST renewed their original licensing pact, plus added:

1.) Intel gets access to RAMBUST's entire patent portfolio for five years
2.) RAMBUST gets patent licenses from Intel for memory interface technology
3.) Intel will pay RAMBUST $10M per quarter (for the five years of the pact) as a licensing fee


As for the subject mobo of this thread ... how could they mess up an otherwise nice design with, as well noted by the review site, such poor locations for PS connector and IDE connectors?



<< If you are looking for the most powerful P4 platform available, have no objections to Rambus? behavior, and money is no object, the P4+i850 remains the fastest combination you can buy. >>

That VH website, as well as most others, tickles me. While the objections to RAMBUST's antics are understandable, when are people going to finally take the blinders off and fess up to the fact that for a typical system (256MB), the cost "penalty", if it can even be called that anymore, is down to ~ 2 to 3% of total system cost. Sure, you can be tricky and compare just the RAM costs and it looks like anywhere from a 25-50% cost penalty, but when you look at the sum totals for all components in the two (ie. RDRAM vs. non-RDRAM) systems, that extra $30-40 memory cost turns in to a coupla percent overall. A good analogy would be the current rally in tech stocks since the Sept. lows. On paper it looks impressive, 30-50% gains were easily attainable, but that is because the prices for the base of comparison had sunk so low.

But wait ... maybe all these reviewers are actually helping ... if they can keep deceiving enough people from using RDRAM because of price, demand for RDRAM will shrink even more, stockpiles will increase even further, and RDRAM will end up being cheaper than both SDRAM and DDR SDRAM. On top of that, the fact that this would further erode RAMBUST's ever-shrinking revenues would probably please a bunch of people too. :D :D :D



<< I'm still glad about my choice with the ECS P4S5A. Not only is it NOT a via-chipset, it is a P4 (478) with support for DDR 333 ram. >>

Yes ... nice ... but ... the way the price of DDR is rising, it soon could cost more than any other type of memory. Demand is gonna skyrocket even more, and that nasty old rule of supply and demand may very well bite us hard in the pocket. :(
 

Spook

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 1999
2,620
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76
Well, the Sandra scores on this review, aren't quiet at good as the preview provided in the previous thread on the 845.... But hey, doesn't look too bad... will have to be considered...
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
I got to see final pricing info on i845-B/Northwood before I can make my final decision. The MSI 845 Ultra will be on the high-end in terms of i845-B mobos with maybe ASUS' board being the only one more expensive. Thanks to ViperGTS, I am considering going AMD again:

MSI 845 Ultra + Intel Pentium4 S478 2.0A = $???

Tyan TigerMP + 2 x AMD AthlonXP 1600 + 2 x Crucial PC2100 256DDR = ~$652 @ NewEgg

Asus P4T-E i850 + Intel Pentium4 S478 1.9Ghz + 2 x Corsair PC800 256RDRAM = ~$657 @ NewEgg

Then there is,

ECS P4S5A SiS635 + Intel Pentium4 S478 1.9Ghz + 2 x Corsair PC2400 256DDR = ~$530 @ NewEgg
 

FiveDoubleO

Member
Sep 12, 2001
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i am waiting for the other mobo makers to release the I845D before I make up my mind.
i never look at the 1st board out the gates they tend to be the worst performer.

if it doesnt pan out so well I will just go for the Rambus solution or wait on the P4 memory bus.

i see the I845D as a great business/educational solution so far.

i really want to see them compair the I845D to SiS/ALi p4 solutions
 

ST4RCUTTER

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2001
2,841
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Midnight Rambler,

Thanks for the additional information! Although, I know for a fact that there was a clause in the original Rambus contract which barred Intel from developing PC core-logic chipsets for the P4 that support double-data-rate SDRAM, at least until January 2003. The new contract "supersedes" the old one, some may view this as a renegotiation. Whatever you call it, the result is the same...Intel can introduce DDR chipsets that support the P4 before the date specified in the original contract.

Intel renegotiated Rambus contract

Intel speeds up Brookdale launch
 

Saltin

Platinum Member
Jul 21, 2001
2,175
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They should have thrown in an RDRAM configuration for comparison. I guess they summed it all up when they said

"If you are looking for the most powerful P4 platform available, have no objections to Rambus? behavior, and money is no object, the P4+i850 remains the fastest combination you can buy."

Remember. Rambus is a company. RDRAM is a memory type.
 

ST4RCUTTER

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2001
2,841
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They should have thrown in an RDRAM configuration for comparison.


They did. The MSI 850 Pro 2 LE is based on the Intel i850 chipset (RDRAM). When they say "Rambus? behavior" they're referring to Rambus witholding patent information from the Jedec, not how the memory behaves.



 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
46
91


<< They should have thrown in an RDRAM configuration for comparison. I guess they summed it all up when they said

"If you are looking for the most powerful P4 platform available, have no objections to Rambus? behavior, and money is no object, the P4+i850 remains the fastest combination you can buy."

Remember. Rambus is a company. RDRAM is a memory type.
>>


Man, did you even READ the article?:disgust:
 

Saltin

Platinum Member
Jul 21, 2001
2,175
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NFS4: Of course I read the article. I guess I just got confused when they said that they tested three mobos, all with the same components. The components were listed below and the Ram type was DDR. Here's what I mean
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pentium 4 1.7 GHz
MSI 845 Ultra-ARU
256 MB PC2100 Crucial
OCZ Titan3 GeForce3
WD 200BB 20GB Hard Drive
Windows 2000 with SP2 installed
DirectX 8.1

In addition, the following motherboards were tested with the identical components above:
VIA P4XB-RA
MSI 850 Pro 2 LE
___________________________________________________________________________________

I hadnt had my second cup of coffee!

The fact that the MSI is an i850 would explain why it beat the DDR set up though:)


My point still stands.

PS: Jack, I love my p4t-e as well :)
 

BigToque

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,700
0
76
Is Intel going to be dumping RDRAM? Wouldn't that be kind of foolish?

I mean, the P4 was designed to be used with RDRAM not DDR. The 845D lost every test in this review.
 

Diable

Senior member
Sep 28, 2001
753
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I don't see the big deal about the i845D boards. The boards are not going to be faster or much cheaper then i850 boards and RDRAM no longer sets you back hundreds over DDRAM. So I only see them being popular with the "I hate Rambust" crowd.


 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
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They'll be cheaper to OEMs, which is the main market.

Remember that even $50 to an OEM is significant in overall system cost.

That said, the MSI board is somewhat of a disappointment. Then again, MSI's boards are typically the lowest (or next to) performance wise. Perhaps other i845-D boards will show a bit better performance.

For me, SiS 645 is still a better solution. Not only because of PC2700, but because (overall) SiS 645 outperforms i845-D for less money.