Woodward/Costa book: Worried Trump could 'go rogue,' Milley took top-secret action to protect nuclear weapons

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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
8,545
136
I think Milley’s actions are genuinely problematic as if they happened as described it undermines civilian control of the military.

My issue is that criticism ignores the fact that a criminal psychopath just attempted a coup. When you get into coup territory the rules go out the window because coups are inherently extralegal measures.

This ... Many people criticizing Milley really haven't given an opinion as to why they think Milley did what he did. And ... If what he did was true and not exaggerated for a book as some suggest. why did he take this action knowing full well who he was dealing with and what he knew was going on on the ground. Most of us know why he did what he did. There was a mentally unstable desperate child running the show. It took until nearly the end of Trump’s term to finally find an “adult in the room.” Milley appears to be that adult.

Was Milley doing what recently terminated (Trump’s word) Secretary of Defense Mark Esper wanted him to do?. Although there was no confirmed sec def at the time.

He didn’t leak classified information, technically did not violate the chain of command, he likely has a formal liaison job with this Chinese general, meaning it is appropriate and acceptable for him to speak with that general on policy matters.

But...I agree some of the specific things he says, if reported correctly, likely qualify as him “going into business for himself” in terms of foreign policy.

IMO It doesn’t quite break the concept of civilian control of the military, but it may violate the spirit and intent of positions on the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which is to serve in high level advisory capacity to the President and other special policy assignments as necessary. It would be akin to a Deputy Secretary of State meeting a high-ranking diplomat of a foreign country, and going specifically against the policy dictates of the current administration. Not a crime, but probably not proper.

It could justify a sacking. But it’s also a matter of diplomatic policy, so it would be up to the President to exercise his discretion on the matter. It appears thus far Biden has decided it isn’t a firing offense.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
People like to complain that milliey’s action/plan was problematic but what is really problematic and at the core of this issue is that we had someone who was completely unqualified to be president on multiple levels (mental, intelligence, and foreign ties). That’s the real issue here. With no unqualified president there isn’t any need for such actions/plans.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
Trump was nuts; people in power around him put in place safeguards to prevent the worst. OFN.
 

Luna1968

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2019
1,202
680
136
I dont come here much anymore because it is a liberal pool of shit and no matter what the democrats do you lackeys will defend them tooth and nail. what Milley did was treason and serious dereliction of duty. He is the real face of a coup, he took the civilian control of the military away from the government, he bypassed the chain of command and called the fucking Chinese and said if we attack you ill call you because we are buds. wtf?

Trump was not going to start a war with China, no president can just wake up and say "hey let's nuke somebody today" and launch missiles. there are procedures and safeguards in place that prevent that. The president is the last decision maker to launch nukes not the first.

Milley and every officer who was a part of this have to be removed from their position and investigated. The man is a threat to our country and the constitution.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,210
28,912
136
I dont come here much anymore because it is a liberal pool of shit and no matter what the democrats do you lackeys will defend them tooth and nail. what Milley did was treason and serious dereliction of duty. He is the real face of a coup, he took the civilian control of the military away from the government, he bypassed the chain of command and called the fucking Chinese and said if we attack you ill call you because we are buds. wtf?

Trump was not going to start a war with China, no president can just wake up and say "hey let's nuke somebody today" and launch missiles. there are procedures and safeguards in place that prevent that. The president is the last decision maker to launch nukes not the first.

Milley and every officer who was a part of this have to be removed from their position and investigated. The man is a threat to our country and the constitution.
Of course, you will be providing evidence for any of this, right?
 

Luna1968

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2019
1,202
680
136
The procedures for nuclear launch are only to ensure the order is legitimately from the president and the target package correct. In this case and in all cases one person and one person alone decides to launch them, the president.


This implies they were inaccurate. How were they inaccurate?

having worked with USAF ICBM's for many years i can tell you that you are pretty much wrong. the only thing you got right is that the President is the only person who can authorize a launch, but to get to that point there are many procedures that have to be in place.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
I dont come here much anymore because it is a liberal pool of shit and no matter what the democrats do you lackeys will defend them tooth and nail. what Milley did was treason and serious dereliction of duty. He is the real face of a coup, he took the civilian control of the military away from the government, he bypassed the chain of command and called the fucking Chinese and said if we attack you ill call you because we are buds. wtf?

Trump was not going to start a war with China, no president can just wake up and say "hey let's nuke somebody today" and launch missiles. there are procedures and safeguards in place that prevent that. The president is the last decision maker to launch nukes not the first.

Milley and every officer who was a part of this have to be removed from their position and investigated. The man is a threat to our country and the constitution.
Dude, you are the classic example of right wingers bitching their opinions aren't respected. You led that with something that is an outright lie. Righties lie regularly and then wonder why they aren't taken seriously or are met with anger.

I bolded your lie.

As for the rest of your post, how is China supposed to know that (in blue) They thought that because they were already on high alert.
 
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Reactions: Luna1968

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,818
1,572
136
I dont come here much anymore because it is a liberal pool of shit and no matter what the democrats do you lackeys will defend them tooth and nail. what Milley did was treason and serious dereliction of duty. He is the real face of a coup, he took the civilian control of the military away from the government, he bypassed the chain of command and called the fucking Chinese and said if we attack you ill call you because we are buds. wtf?

Trump was not going to start a war with China, no president can just wake up and say "hey let's nuke somebody today" and launch missiles. there are procedures and safeguards in place that prevent that. The president is the last decision maker to launch nukes not the first.

Milley and every officer who was a part of this have to be removed from their position and investigated. The man is a threat to our country and the constitution.

The middle paragraph seems at odds with the 1st and 3rd? Riddle me this, 1.) there was no way Trump would strike China as you said there are safeguards. 2.) Our intelligence thought The Chinese a rival Nuclear power were concerned about a strilke. 3.) Milley had a discussion with his counterpart to reassure them that there would be no strike. So, what were his actions you thought were treasonous and why? Connect the paragraphs you wrote above for me.

Just to put this here. I remember when we bombed Syria and the US warned Russia that the bombs were coming.
The US warned the Russians ahead of Syria missile strikes
 
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Luna1968

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2019
1,202
680
136
how is China supposed to know that (in blue) They thought that because they were already on high alert.

ill repeat. IT WAS NOT THE JOB OF THE JOINT CHIEF OF STAFF TO CALL THE CHINESE ON ANYTHING. especially if for some stupid reason we were going to attack the Chinese. how can you possibly defend a general doing such a thing? it is mind-boggling.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
having worked with USAF ICBM's for many years i can tell you that you are pretty much wrong. the only thing you got right is that the President is the only person who can authorize a launch, but to get to that point there are many procedures that have to be in place.
False, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the constitution.

There are of course procedures in place to launch but they exist at the pleasure of the president. There is currently no statute that prohibits first use of nuclear weapons by the president and even if there were there’s a decent chance it would be unconstitutional.

The procedures that do exist are ones developed by DOD and therefore inherently cannot bind the president as he is the source of authority behind all of them.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
ill repeat. IT WAS NOT THE JOB OF THE JOINT CHIEF OF STAFF TO CALL THE CHINESE ON ANYTHING. especially if for some stupid reason we were going to attack the Chinese. how can you possibly defend a general doing such a thing? it is mind-boggling.
The chairman of the joint chiefs apparently regularly speaks to the head of other countries’ armed forces. Where did you get the idea that it’s not his job to talk to them?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,210
28,912
136
False, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the constitution.

There are of course procedures in place to launch but they exist at the pleasure of the president. There is currently no statute that prohibits first use of nuclear weapons by the president and even if there were there’s a decent chance it would be unconstitutional.

The procedures that do exist are ones developed by DOD and therefore inherently cannot bind the president as he is the source of authority behind all of them.


While I agree with the rest of your post, the bolded is flat out wrong. The war making power resides with Congress alone. The fact that Congresses have been derelict in their duty to reel in rogue Presidents does not confer this power to the President under the Constitution.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,818
1,572
136
your question answers itself. safegards. the Chinese know this. they are not stupid .

False. The intelligence said they were highly concerned Trump was unstable and might launch bombs. I think your comment answered itself. If they knew this, why would Milley have to reassure them?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
While I agree with the rest of your post, the bolded is flat out wrong. The war making power resides with Congress alone. The fact that Congresses have been derelict in their duty to reel in rogue Presidents does not confer this power to the President under the Constitution.
The congressional research service does not share your opinion, they consider it to be very much an open question.

 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,936
5,560
136
I dont come here much anymore because it is a liberal pool of shit and no matter what the democrats do you lackeys will defend them tooth and nail. what Milley did was treason and serious dereliction of duty. He is the real face of a coup, he took the civilian control of the military away from the government, he bypassed the chain of command and called the fucking Chinese and said if we attack you ill call you because we are buds. wtf?

Trump was not going to start a war with China, no president can just wake up and say "hey let's nuke somebody today" and launch missiles. there are procedures and safeguards in place that prevent that. The president is the last decision maker to launch nukes not the first.

Milley and every officer who was a part of this have to be removed from their position and investigated. The man is a threat to our country and the constitution.
Actually, the first thing that needs to happen is determining the veracity of the information. It could be a complete fabrication. If it is accurate (which I doubt) Milley is in serious trouble.
My hunch is that it's been dramatized in the interest of selling books. Trump hate sells, Trump hate with a hero leaping into the fray to thwart the evil Trump and save the world is a best seller. We're talking Tom Clancy level intrigue here.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,284
13,581
146
The fact that Congresses have been derelict in their duty to reel in rogue Presidents does not confer this power to the President under the Constitution.
An unenforced rule isn't a rule.

See: literally everything Trump did that was against the rules.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,210
28,912
136
Actually, the first thing that needs to happen is determining the veracity of the information. It could be a complete fabrication. If it is accurate (which I doubt) Milley is in serious trouble.
My hunch is that it's been dramatized in the interest of selling books. Trump hate sells, Trump hate with a hero leaping into the fray to thwart the evil Trump and save the world is a best seller. We're talking Tom Clancy level intrigue here.
Not really but carry on if it makes you feel better about consistently supporting fascists against you own self interest. Moonie's self-hate hypothesis gains traction every day.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
Actually, the first thing that needs to happen is determining the veracity of the information. It could be a complete fabrication. If it is accurate (which I doubt) Milley is in serious trouble.
My hunch is that it's been dramatized in the interest of selling books. Trump hate sells, Trump hate with a hero leaping into the fray to thwart the evil Trump and save the world is a best seller. We're talking Tom Clancy level intrigue here.
Even if it’s 100% true he will be fine.

I think you seriously underestimate the level to which Biden and congressional Democrats (correctly) think that Trump was attempting to illegally stay in power. Milley is more likely to get a medal than be fired for helping to protect the country.