Womenz on the front line

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
What is you're opinion. Should women be used in infantry units?

There is a debate in the Land of OZ about this now, following a sex scandal in the military college.

I dont think women should be allowed on the front line. From my experience, they allow emotion to affect decision making. And this can be dangerous.

I can explain my opinion further, when i get home from work.
 

Crusty

Lifer
Sep 30, 2001
12,684
2
81
If someone wants to be on the front lines then by all means we should let them.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
I see no reason why women shouldn't be on the front line they are only as distracting as other guys if you are gay or bisexual so it's fine.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
A few centuries ago, I would have agreed. Weapons and armor were heavy. Putting a suit of plate and a broadsword on the smaller frame of a woman wouldn't be a good idea. But modern weaponry and armor is substantially lighter, infinitely more lethal, and can be used effectively by either gender.
 

jteef

Golden Member
Feb 20, 2001
1,355
0
76
if they can fireman carry a wounded me and an M249 to cover then sure.
 

coxmaster

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2007
3,017
3
81
Anyone know what language he is speaking?

English? He just didnt exactly word it well.

He was basically saying that he is ok with it if women are forced to keep up with the physical requirements of men (in this case carrying a wounded soldier and her weapon [M249] all at once)
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
English? He just didnt exactly word it well.

He was basically saying that he is ok with it if women are forced to keep up with the physical requirements of men (in this case carrying a wounded soldier and her weapon [M249] all at once)

We were able to translate it, but I don't understand how he arrived at structuring his sentence that way
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
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A few centuries ago, I would have agreed. Weapons and armor were heavy. Putting a suit of plate and a broadsword on the smaller frame of a woman wouldn't be a good idea. But modern weaponry and armor is substantially lighter, infinitely more lethal, and can be used effectively by either gender.

wrong, troops today carry heavy loads still
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...to-focus-on-troops-heavy-combat-packs-031611/
"With backpacks and protective gear often weighing 130 pounds — and sometimes more for those packing extra ammunition — military commanders concede that the load is great, limiting mobility and agility and likely causing increases in back, shoulder and leg disabilities in Iraq and Afghanistan veterans."

fact is war is not fair, having dead weight on your squad or whatever is going to put other members at risk, there are harsh biological differences that mean most women are simply not suited to the rigors of warfare, sure if the apocalypse comes we won't be so choosy, but for now, it is just logical not to go that far.

just one example.
http://www.womenssportsfoundation.o...W/Women-More-Susceptible-to-ACL-Injuries.aspx women can crumple to the ground from acl injury for seemingly no reason, the leg geometry is not optimal because it has to accomdate child birth.
 
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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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History was just made last week:

Base pilots help make history with all female combat mission

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BAGRAM AIRFIELD, Afghanistan -- A team of female Airmen made history here March 30 when the F-15E Strike Eagles of "Dudette 07" blazed down the runway to provide close air support for coalition and Afghan ground forces.

The two-ship formation consisted of all females, two pilots and two weapons system officers, but more importantly, it marked the first combat mission to be planned, maintained and flown entirely by females.

The 366th Fighter Wing's 389th Fighter Squadron, the Thunderbolts, played a major role in the unique mission. Maj. Tracy Schmidt, a 389th FS pilot, and 389th weapons systems officers Capt. Kimberly Volkand and Capt. Jennifer Morton, flew the mission with Maj. Christine Mau, 455th Air Expeditionary Wing executive officer.

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The mission represents the first combat sortie on record to involve only female Airmen from the pilots and weapons officers to the mission planners and maintainers, according to Lt. Col. Kenneth Tilley, 455th Air Expeditionary Wing historian.

Although the call sign for the mission may have been lighthearted, the sortie was all business calling for the pilots to travel to the Kunar Valley just west of the Pakistan border in support of a large Army operation that was underway.

"I have flown with female pilots before, but this was the first time I have flown in an all female flight," said 455th AEW executive officer and southern California native, Maj. Christine Mau. "This wasn't a possibility when I started flying 11-years ago."

While planning of the mission required support from women at all levels such as Capt. Kristen Wehle, the F-15 liaison officer at the combined air operations center, those involved evoked memories of legendary Women's Army Corps pilots and others for inspiration.

"Women's History means a celebration of the equality we have today in the military. It makes me think back and find inspiration from heroes like Col. Jeannie Flynn," said Capt. Jennifer Morton, 389th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron weapons officer.

In 1993, then 2nd Lt. Jeannie Flynn became the first female F-15E pilot. Although the Air Force permitted female pilots to enter pilot training in 1976, Lieutenant Flynn went on to become the first female fighter pilot to graduate from the U.S. Air Force Weapons School.

"Since 1993 we have had Air Force female pilots in combat positions, and because of that today I feel as a woman I can have whatever job I want," said Capt. Morton a Huntington Beach, Calif., native deployed from Seymour Johnson Air Force Base, N.C.

While Dudette 07 was set up to as an all female mission in honor of Women's History Month, Major Mau pointed out inspiration for today's Airmen aspiring to great heights can come from many different places.

"I think I get a great deal of inspiration from my grandmother (who was a mother seven kids), but many of my role models today are males," she said.

In addition, the pilots never forget the contributions of the maintainers on the ground, like Airmen 1st Class Casiana Curry, who enlisted Sept. 11, 2009, and enables the continued support of the warfighters on the ground.

"The four women officers represents only a portion of the women who supported this mission making it the first all-female -- from tasking to completion -- combat sortie to date," said Dayton, Ohio native and Dudette 07 operations supervisor Capt. Leigh Larkin.

"I thought it was kind of cool and something that I have never seen before. The women throughout time have paved the way for us today and they made it possible for us to be equal as well as respected as individuals," said 455th Expeditionary Aircraft Maintenance Squadron crew chief, Staff Sgt. Tamara Rhone. "Females are a rare breed on the flight line. It is my hope that more females step up and join the maintenance career field."

Although it has only been 18 years since the repeal of the combat exclusion law, the women of today's Air Force are filling vital roles in the success of combat missions throughout the world.

"In reality, we get somewhat uncomfortable when people make a "big deal" out of an all female crew. We are all here because we love what we do and we want to support the mission just the same as any male aircrew member. We are all fighter aircrew, and that is how we identify ourselves, not as male or female, said 389th EFS F-15 pilot and Longmont, Colo., native Maj. Tracy Schmidt. "If you ask any male in our squadron what they thought about us as female aircrew, they would also say, 'Uh I never really considered that, they are just one of us.'"

During those 18 years since Lieutenant Flynn took off on that first flight, times have changed, but female Airmen never forget the sacrifices for their equality or that they serve as role models for the next generation of Airmen.

"On the other hand, while this is normal everyday life to us, we forget sometimes that we are still a very small minority in this community, and we do appreciate the fact that other women in the world are still proud to see women doing this kind of thing.

"I've talked to quite a few older women who said they would have loved to fly jets but never had the opportunity when they were younger, and I also know that there are plenty of young girls out there who may not know that this is an option for them," said Maj. Schmidt.

"While I generally try to avoid being highlighted as a female, I am happy to be a role model or inspiration or whatever you want to call it for other women, when opportunities like this present themselves."
 

Minjin

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2003
2,208
1
81
If they want to be equal and have equal responsibilities, they should meet the same physical standards. In a profession where strength and endurance affects who lives and who dies, there is no excuse for two sets of standards.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
If they want to be equal and have equal responsibilities, they should meet the same physical standards. In a profession where strength and endurance affects who lives and who dies, there is no excuse for two sets of standards.

Well there is if men and women aren't physically equal...
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
If they can't handle the physical endurance and demands of strenuous combats, then there are no equal. The physical fitness test should be equal. Pass that first and then talk about wanting to be on the front lines.

Although, they do have much more natural supports in firing positions. ;)
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
If they want to be equal and have equal responsibilities, they should meet the same physical standards. In a profession where strength and endurance affects who lives and who dies, there is no excuse for two sets of standards.

This