Woman was denied morning-after pill because of pharmacists' beliefs

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,051
27,783
136
I've been saying for years we were going to run into this. Leave your religion at home and to yourself. If religion conflicts with your job, quit. You are possibly endangering the lives of others. Righties have somehow managed to infect their religious beliefs on others.

 
Feb 4, 2009
34,564
15,777
136
I've been saying for years we were going to run into this. Leave your religion at home and to yourself. If religion conflicts with your job, quit. You are possibly endangering the lives of others. Righties have somehow managed to infect their religious beliefs on others.


It’s been determined pharmacy’s can do this which I don’t agree with. However those pharmacists jobs are now in jeopardy which I totally agree with only unless the pharmacy wants to make a reasonable accommodation and hire a second pharmacist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pcgeek11

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,188
14,091
136
It should be a standard question in any job interview for a pharmacist position: is there any kind of medication for which you will not fill a valid prescription for any reason? If the answer is yes, they don't get the job. This is as much for protection of the pharmacy against lawsuits like this than anything else.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,072
6,868
136
It should be a standard question in any job interview for a pharmacist position: is there any kind of medication for which you will not fill a valid prescription for any reason? If the answer is yes, they don't get the job. This is as much for protection of the pharmacy against lawsuits like this than anything else.
As far as I can think of, the only valid reason to avoid dispensing a medication is if there would be some terrible drug-drug interaction with a patient's existing medication. [edit] And in that event, the pharmacist should be phoning the prescribing physician to discuss the relevant medical options (e.g, substitute drug, lower dose, etc...).
 
Last edited:

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,188
14,091
136
As far as I can think of, the only valid reason to avoid dispensing a medication is if there would be some terrible drug-drug interaction with a patient's existing medication.

Yes, and even then, you wouldn't refuse it. A responsible pharmacist will call the customer's MD and warn him or her that there is a potentially fatal interaction, and ask whether this was taken into consideration when the prescription was made. The doctor could say she wasn't aware of the other medication for some reason, and revoke the prescription, after speaking with her patient. Or the doctor might say that she already discussed the risk with the patient and they agree that the need for the medication outweighs the risk. Ultimately it's between doctor and patient. So there really isn't any reason.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,564
15,777
136
Yes, and even then, you wouldn't refuse it. A responsible pharmacist will call the customer's MD and warn him or her that there is a potentially fatal interaction, and ask whether this was taken into consideration when the prescription was made. The doctor could say she wasn't aware of the other medication for some reason, and revoke the prescription, after speaking with her patient. Or the doctor might say that she already discussed the risk with the patient and they agree that the need for the medication outweighs the risk. Ultimately it's between doctor and patient. So there really isn't any reason.

This is about one of those religious objections for sure.
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,533
1,281
146
Of course it is, but I fault the man less for his beliefs than I do the pharmacy for hiring someone who wouldn't do the job to begin with.

This guy gets it. Although with these "people" when they start getting fired for not doing their jobs properly they will bitch about how their religious rights being violated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whm1974

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,188
14,091
136
This guy gets it. Although with these "people" when they start getting fired for not doing their jobs properly they will bitch about how their religious rights being violated.

They can bitch all they want, but jobs have certain requirements. If you can't fulfill all of them, you can't have the job. If this guy wants to be a pharmacist and not fill prescriptions for abortion related medication, then he needs to campaign to make the medication illegal (and overturn Roe v. Wade.) Until then, if he won't fill certain prescriptions he shouldn't be allowed to be a pharmacist.

Also, it has nothing to do with religion. If you're a pharmacist and, say, your brother died last year from an overdose of Oxy, and you then became an anti-opiate activist and suddenly decided you wouldn't hand out any of that medication to customers with valid prescriptions, guess what, you should be fired for that too.
 
Last edited:

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,439
8,108
136
FFS! The morning after pill is not controversial. That should be available over the counter without approval from anyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pmv

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,188
14,091
136
FFS! The morning after pill is not controversial. That should be available over the counter without approval from anyone.

Agreed. Particularly given the circumstances in which morning after pills are sought. Why should a woman have to call her doctor and explain that she just had a drunken sexual encounter last night with a guy who didn't use a condom, so can you please prescribe me this pill?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Yes, and even then, you wouldn't refuse it. A responsible pharmacist will call the customer's MD and warn him or her that there is a potentially fatal interaction, and ask whether this was taken into consideration when the prescription was made. The doctor could say she wasn't aware of the other medication for some reason, and revoke the prescription, after speaking with her patient. Or the doctor might say that she already discussed the risk with the patient and they agree that the need for the medication outweighs the risk. Ultimately it's between doctor and patient. So there really isn't any reason.
Firstly, I think that when a proper prescription (we'll get to that in a moment) is presented it should be filled however that does not mean it MUST be in such cases. Some states have made legal provision that allows refusing to fill on religious grounds. Again, I don't like that but as an attorney, the law is the law.

Secondly "between doctor and patient" is a non-existant standard for good reason. Do you know what happens if an MD decides to prescribe massive amounts of Oxy in a criminal scheme and a pharmacist fills them? They are participants in a crime and there is no such obligation on a pharmacist. If the prescriber insists on going down a path that any reasonable and prudent peer would determine would be harmful? then they have a duty to NOT fill that prescription. He or she can have their license revoked and be legally liable for damages for not using their considerable professional expertise. "I was only following orders" does not hold as a legit standard of practice. I recall a prescription for nitric acid to be applied to a wart near a child's eye by an old VT doc. No, I wasn't going to participate in that just like I didn't give a pregnant woman a Compazine suppository with the directions to use every four hours. That was wildly inappropriate and dangerous. Yes, I called the doc in both cases and the latter said: "I've been practicing for 20 years and no one has ever questioned a prescription". They should have, absolutely. I explained to the patient that if she were my wife I'd get a second opinion and that this medication is never intended to be used as prescribed. Not filling was my only legal, ethical, and professional choice.

Fortunately docs today understand that pharmacists are the last line of defense with medications. If we don't catch it then there is nothing preventing a potential disaster.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,051
27,783
136
No problem, "just go to another Pharmacy!"...
Did you read the article? She did and was rejected again. What are you support to do in a red state full of puritans?

Why should should she have to drive around all night, possibly to another state? Why should someone's religious beliefs be forced on others?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
Did you read the article? She did and was rejected again. What are you support to do in a red state full of puritans?

Why should should she have to drive around all night, possibly to another state? Why should someone's religious beliefs be forced on others?

Ya, was just pointing out the common retort.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,528
5,045
136
Firstly, I think that when a proper prescription (we'll get to that in a moment) is presented it should be filled however that does not mean it MUST be in such cases. Some states have made legal provision that allows refusing to fill on religious grounds. Again, I don't like that but as an attorney, the law is the law.

Secondly "between doctor and patient" is a non-existant standard for good reason. Do you know what happens if an MD decides to prescribe massive amounts of Oxy in a criminal scheme and a pharmacist fills them? They are participants in a crime and there is no such obligation on a pharmacist. If the prescriber insists on going down a path that any reasonable and prudent peer would determine would be harmful? then they have a duty to NOT fill that prescription. He or she can have their license revoked and be legally liable for damages for not using their considerable professional expertise. "I was only following orders" does not hold as a legit standard of practice. I recall a prescription for nitric acid to be applied to a wart near a child's eye by an old VT doc. No, I wasn't going to participate in that just like I didn't give a pregnant woman a Compazine suppository with the directions to use every four hours. That was wildly inappropriate and dangerous. Yes, I called the doc in both cases and the latter said: "I've been practicing for 20 years and no one has ever questioned a prescription". They should have, absolutely. I explained to the patient that if she were my wife I'd get a second opinion and that this medication is never intended to be used as prescribed. Not filling was my only legal, ethical, and professional choice.

Fortunately docs today understand that pharmacists are the last line of defense with medications. If we don't catch it then there is nothing preventing a potential disaster.

That's all nice and I completely understand that pharmacists are the last line of defense between an incompetent MD and prescribing meds that are obviously contra-indicated. And I also understand the legal implications of a pharmacist and MD working in tandem to skirt the law vis a vis oxy/hydrocodone overprescribing/diverting. That's illegal.

But what's being described here is having another's religious belief being forced upon someone without want or desire to have that done. The prescription the woman wanted to fill is a legal prescription and wasn't contra-indicated in her case, only a pharmacist refusing to do his job because religion.

Seems to me that a very vocal yet minor segment of our population routinely screams about how their religious preferences are being "ignored" or not respected, yet that same segment of the population seems to have no problem having their religious beliefs forced upon others without their consent or approval. Seems kinda Taliban-ish or facist in that respect. Sorta like when the Puritans who settled in what was Mass Colony would kill a woman for disagreeing with the Puritan belief system.....and yes, it happened. The Puritans hung a female Quaker simply because she refused to have their beliefs shoved down her throat. Not to mentin, Catholics were on a death watch if they entered Boston and were found to be Catholic.

This sorta smacks of that sort of totalitarianism via religious "freedom" shit the Puritans did during their heyday in the U.S.

I worked in the medical field for ~25 years (LPN, RN) and for the life of me, I cannot fathom how anyone in the medical field would refuse to work with, administer to, assist, or otherwise do their jobs if/when having to have a patient with a completely different belief system than I have. Would call into question my sincerity of my own committment to the profession and to people.

Let me ask you this.....should a pharmacist refuse birth control pills for a woman simply because the pharmacist doesn't believe in providing them from some misguided religious belief? Why?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Let me ask you this.....should a pharmacist refuse birth control pills for a woman simply because the pharmacist doesn't believe in providing them from some misguided religious belief? Why?

The answer is simple for me. When there is a legitimate order that is properly prescribed and the health of the patient is not at risk then the duty is to aid in providing the service. Religious opinions have no place in practice. You of course understand that "obey the doc" is not an inherent part of practice as someone mistakenly implied, however the duty is to the patient providing no harm is done to the person getting medical treatment including OC's.