Woman gets caught bringing fruit through Customs. Blames Delta.

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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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It is an apple ffs.

There are many countries out there that are much more strict about rules and have higher fines for violating them and yes they absolutely will fine you on the spot if you're caught violating them even it its a single apple or orange

Never been on a flight that gives fresh fruit, only peanuts and pretzels. If its illegal for the fruit to leave the plane at its destination, then I don't think they should carry it on the plane.

Are you suggesting we remove everything from planes that isn't allowed into countries?

I can understand why the lady might not have been thinking about declaring it.

The Global Entry kiosk specifically asks if you are bringing fruit into the country so for her to 'not think about declaring it' means she didn't read the screen. The point of Global Entry is that trusted travelers get expedited screening because we're trusted to read and follow the rules.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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I see four areas of blame. I think the importance is in this order:

1) Stupid laws that are supposedly about seeds / insects / diseases but are ACTUALLY about protecting farmer profits who want to sell their own apples. Make clear laws based on science.

2) Unclear custom forms. I can't think of a single international trip that I've made (I've been on dozens) where I didn't leave at least one line blank because it was unclear. Then I ask the agent for clarification before handing in the form and answer appropriately. Even worse, now they are switching to no agents to ask.

3) Airlines simply should not give things that are forbidden in the destination. And certainly if they did do so, they should make it clear that they cannot leave the plane.

4) The woman clearly violated the rules.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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2) Unclear custom forms. I can't think of a single international trip that I've made (I've been on dozens) where I didn't leave at least one line blank because it was unclear. Then I ask the agent for clarification before handing in the form and answer appropriately. Even worse, now they are switching to no agents to ask.

She didn't use a form. The GE kiosks asks if you have any food and gives an example like 'fruit, vegetables' etc. Its very clear
 

Rebel_L

Senior member
Nov 9, 2009
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She didn't use a form. The GE kiosks asks if you have any food and gives an example like 'fruit, vegetables' etc. Its very clear

And when you are thinking about your luggage and what you packed and are bringing in its pretty natural to not think about stuff given to you on the plane. How is the duty free stuff handled, I never bother with it, but do you declare it and show them a duty free form or is it just not declared because it doesnt need to be and you just keep a duty free form in case someone wants to see it?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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She didn't use a form. The GE kiosks asks if you have any food and gives an example like 'fruit, vegetables' etc. Its very clear
Like I said in the very text you quoted, it is even worse with a kiosk since you have no one to answer your questions.

And no, I do not think it is very clear. The US kiosk is better than many other countries, but the wording is still very much murky.
  • What is an animal product? Do leather coats/purses/wallets/shoes count?
  • What is soil? A bit of dirt on your boots? Dust on your pants?
  • What is a farm/ranch/pasture? If you are in a public park and a small flock of sheep walks by, is that a farm (yes, this has happened to me in 3 countries)?
  • What is livestock? I've petted sheep, emus, giraffes, cheetahs, lion cubs, massive snakes, etc. each in different countries. Were these lifestock?
  • What are plants? Cotton shirts?
  • Etc.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
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Like I said in the very text you quoted, it is even worse with a kiosk since you have no one to answer your questions.

And no, I do not think it is very clear. The US kiosk is better than many other countries, but the wording is still very much murky.
  • What is an animal product? Do leather coats/purses/wallets/shoes count?
  • What is soil? A bit of dirt on your boots? Dust on your pants?
  • What is a farm/ranch/pasture? If you are in a public park and a small flock of sheep walks by, is that a farm (yes, this has happened to me in 3 countries)?
  • What is livestock? I've petted sheep, emus, giraffes, cheetahs, lion cubs, massive snakes, etc. each in different countries. Were these lifestock?
  • What are plants? Cotton shirts?
  • Etc.
Just tell them that you're smuggling the fruit of the loom guys in on your waistband and see what they say.:p
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,480
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And when you are thinking about your luggage and what you packed and are bringing in its pretty natural to not think about stuff given to you on the plane. How is the duty free stuff handled, I never bother with it, but do you declare it and show them a duty free form or is it just not declared because it doesnt need to be and you just keep a duty free form in case someone wants to see it?

I'm not saying no one would ever make a mistake. However, you shouldn't act like its the airlines fault you chose to keep and not declare an item

Its been a few years since I have filled out a CBP form but there was a place where you are\were required to list all purchases you were bringing back with you even if it is 'duty free'. This is because you still have a personal exemption that includes duty free items. If you go over that you may be charged duty regardless of the place of purchase. On the GE Kiosk it just asks if you exceeded your exemption so no need to declare items unless they fall over the exemption or into one of the other categories.

Even if you do go over on the form or Kiosk its been my experience CBP officers aren't going to go through the trouble of actually calculating what you owe on small amounts.

Like I said in the very text you quoted, it is even worse with a kiosk since you have no one to answer your questions.

And no, I do not think it is very clear. The US kiosk is better than many other countries, but the wording is still very much murky.
  • What is an animal product? Do leather coats/purses/wallets/shoes count?
  • What is soil? A bit of dirt on your boots? Dust on your pants?
  • What is a farm/ranch/pasture? If you are in a public park and a small flock of sheep walks by, is that a farm (yes, this has happened to me in 3 countries)?
  • What is livestock? I've petted sheep, emus, giraffes, cheetahs, lion cubs, massive snakes, etc. each in different countries. Were these lifestock?
  • What are plants? Cotton shirts?
  • Etc.
I think its pretty obvious I am talking about this particular case not a hypothetical soil or animal product question. An apple is a fruit - which is explicitly used as an example. An apple is also a type of food which is also explicitly cited and I think we can agree most adults know that an apple is food. In this case it is unequivocally clear that an apple should be declared when using the kiosk.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,479
3,976
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I think its pretty obvious I am talking about this particular case not a hypothetical soil or animal product question. An apple is a fruit - which is explicitly used as an example. An apple is also a type of food which is also explicitly cited and I think we can agree most adults know that an apple is food. In this case it is unequivocally clear that an apple should be declared when using the kiosk.
I don't think you understood my post. Please read this part again:
4) The woman clearly violated the rules.
Now that you reread it, why are you seemingly disagreeing with me but then in your posts you agree with me? I'm confused by your intentions. The woman is wrong: full stop. But the forms are also unclear in other situations, the laws are not based on reality or science, and the airline shouldn't be giving the passengers banned items without at least a warning.
 
Last edited:

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
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And when you are thinking about your luggage and what you packed and are bringing in its pretty natural to not think about stuff given to you on the plane. How is the duty free stuff handled, I never bother with it, but do you declare it and show them a duty free form or is it just not declared because it doesnt need to be and you just keep a duty free form in case someone wants to see it?
Yes, you have to declare duty free items. Duty free means it's free of duties in the country you bought it in, but you can be taxed on it when you bring it back into the US.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,480
3,601
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I see four areas of blame. I think the importance is in this order:

1) Stupid laws that are supposedly about seeds / insects / diseases but are ACTUALLY about protecting farmer profits who want to sell their own apples. Make clear laws based on science.

2) Unclear custom forms. I can't think of a single international trip that I've made (I've been on dozens) where I didn't leave at least one line blank because it was unclear. Then I ask the agent for clarification before handing in the form and answer appropriately. Even worse, now they are switching to no agents to ask.

3) Airlines simply should not give things that are forbidden in the destination. And certainly if they did do so, they should make it clear that they cannot leave the plane.

4) The woman clearly violated the rules.

I don't think you understood my post. Please read this part again:

Now that you reread it, why are you seemingly disagreeing with me but then in your posts you agree with me? I'm confused by your intentions. The woman is wrong: full stop. But the forms are also unclear in other situations and the laws are not based on reality or science.

The context of your original post that you left out is important. In a reply to a thread about a specific incident you said you "See four areas of blame." and point out that customs forms are unclear. There is no indication that this point of yours is completely irrelevant to the incident being discussed (It is irrelevant because customs forms and GE kiosks are quite clear on this as I have previously noted). You address the incident specifically in your fourth point leading credence to the idea that your entire list should viewed as a commentary on the specific issue. So you either saw #2 as relevant to this case or neglected to mention that #2 is irrelevant to the rest of the items (which can be specifically applied) but is, instead, a general commentary on customs forms. As a general commentary it is further out of place due to your statement of "four areas of blame." If #2 was a general commentary that is not relevant to this specific incident then how could it be part of a ranked list of blame? Unless "four areas of blame" was intended to be a general commentary on the customs process. However, then we are left with the issue of #4 being part of a general commentary rather than existing as the specific case that it is. This is problematic unless there are a large number of occurrences where women are being fined for not declaring apples at the boarder - which I doubt to be the case.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,479
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However, then we are left with the issue of #4 being part of a general commentary rather than existing as the specific case that it is. This is problematic unless there are a large number of occurrences where women are being fined for not declaring apples at the boarder - which I doubt to be the case.
My post was intended to be general. Those are the four areas of problems that I routinely run into with the world-wide customs processes. #4 is the person themselves. Sometimes people are just plan wrong whether it be by accident, negligence, gross negligence, or fraud. In that post, I identified the specific person who was wrong, but it is also general. Many people make that type of mistake. I get confused myself quite a bit depending on the translation of the particular country's customs form.

I can't give you the exact number of people that are fined, but there were 1.659 million seized plant and animal materials in the US in 2015: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/f...y/summary-performance-financial-info-2015.pdf Is that in your mind a "large number of occurences"?

But, the point of my post was that the process could be greatly improved. The part that is the most stupid of all to me is when you might have been on a farm. Guess what most countries do? They spray the shoes that you are currently wearing. Not the shoes you wore on the farm, not the hiking shoes with deep groves to hold soil or disease, but the shoes you are wearing right now as you are in customs. How is that going to stop spreading disease? Customs is really that out of touch with reality.

In this particular case, the woman is clearly at blame. But it is almost like someone who is handed narcotics and moments later being arrested for having narcotics. Being handed an apple and then having to declare the apple is just going to lead to problems. It could simply be pure forgetfulness. Maybe in other situations, a 3 year old child put it in a bag, and the parent in the hectic frenzy of carrying children through customs didn't realize it. That situation just can be avoided by not giving forbidden items to customers in the first place. Since it is the airline who actually brought the forbidden items into the country, why are the people liable for declaring it? And the apple isn't really the problem to begin with (stupid laws).
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
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When I was a wee-lad I snuck two gerbils in small metal cage in bag from DC to LA (Illegal in CA) on a plane. Amazing what you could get away with then.