With so much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over indifference to America's drift into fascism, I was wondering about something.....

[Moonbeam]

With the two political parties either in active support or inept in response, with the court on the fascist's side, with the preponderance of the media neutral in reporting the facts, inexpressive of the horror of the facts or actively lying about or even siding siding with them, the conclusion is pretty clear seems to me. We are a nation of cowards, afraid to stand up with plenty of evidence that's a prudent choice. The majorities skin in the game will come to late for their own weeping and wailing to make a difference. Our profiles of courage have flown out the window in preference to a nation of sheep.

What would it take to have courage, to be a wolf rather than a sheep, to break out of go along get along mentality and to have a preponderance of the nation that way. At a minimum, it seems to me, one would need to be propaganda resistant, to be able to see through lies, to be able not to fall for bullshit, that like in 1984 everything good is it's opposite.

And this is where my question comes in. What would the country be like if the majority of people could not be frightened, emotionally manipulated, cajoled by false promises of betterment if they just fall in line? Fascism would be stopped in it's tracks, sure, but what about the economy? What would happen to the advertising industry, online tracking and targeting of sales, What would happen to all the people selling useless junk, the fashion industry. What if people were happy with almost nothing? Could you imagine a greater economic crash. Investors would lose their shirt, Millions would be out of work. Where would we be without all our domesticated sheep? Imagine what it would take to change a nation full of rip off artists and their surfs morphing into one where status came from how many people you could care for and support, where your neighbor would be the first person to help you.

Capitalism, can it survive without it's brainwashed sheep? Isn't all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth just a big hypocritical lie? Maybe it's better not to think about it.

 

[hal2kilo]

With the two political parties either in active support or inept in response, with the court on the fascist's side, with the preponderance of the media neutral in reporting the facts, inexpressive of the horror of the facts or actively lying about or even siding siding with them, the conclusion is pretty clear seems to me. We are a nation of cowards, afraid to stand up with plenty of evidence that's a prudent choice. The majorities skin in the game will come to late for their own weeping and wailing to make a difference. Our profiles of courage have flown out the window in preference to a nation of sheep.

What would it take to have courage, to be a wolf rather than a sheep, to break out of go along get along mentality and to have a preponderance of the nation that way. At a minimum, it seems to me, one would need to be propaganda resistant, to be able to see through lies, to be able not to fall for bullshit, that like in 1984 everything good is it's opposite.

And this is where my question comes in. What would the country be like if the majority of people could not be frightened, emotionally manipulated, cajoled by false promises of betterment if they just fall in line? Fascism would be stopped in it's tracks, sure, but what about the economy? What would happen to the advertising industry, online tracking and targeting of sales, What would happen to all the people selling useless junk, the fashion industry. What if people were happy with almost nothing? Could you imagine a greater economic crash. Investors would lose their shirt, Millions would be out of work. Where would we be without all our domesticated sheep? Imagine what it would take to change a nation full of rip off artists and their surfs morphing into one where status came from how many people you could care for and support, where your neighbor would be the first person to help you.

Capitalism, can it survive without it's brainwashed sheep? Isn't all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth just a big hypocritical lie? Maybe it's better not to think about it.

Don't worry, the winners are all making sure we will be serfs soon.

 

[nickqt]

With the two political parties either in active support or inept in response, with the court on the fascist's side, with the preponderance of the media neutral in reporting the facts, inexpressive of the horror of the facts or actively lying about or even siding siding with them, the conclusion is pretty clear seems to me. We are a nation of cowards, afraid to stand up with plenty of evidence that's a prudent choice. The majorities skin in the game will come to late for their own weeping and wailing to make a difference. Our profiles of courage have flown out the window in preference to a nation of sheep.

What would it take to have courage, to be a wolf rather than a sheep, to break out of go along get along mentality and to have a preponderance of the nation that way. At a minimum, it seems to me, one would need to be propaganda resistant, to be able to see through lies, to be able not to fall for bullshit, that like in 1984 everything good is it's opposite.

And this is where my question comes in. What would the country be like if the majority of people could not be frightened, emotionally manipulated, cajoled by false promises of betterment if they just fall in line? Fascism would be stopped in it's tracks, sure, but what about the economy? What would happen to the advertising industry, online tracking and targeting of sales, What would happen to all the people selling useless junk, the fashion industry. What if people were happy with almost nothing? Could you imagine a greater economic crash. Investors would lose their shirt, Millions would be out of work. Where would we be without all our domesticated sheep? Imagine what it would take to change a nation full of rip off artists and their surfs morphing into one where status came from how many people you could care for and support, where your neighbor would be the first person to help you.

Capitalism, can it survive without it's brainwashed sheep? Isn't all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth just a big hypocritical lie? Maybe it's better not to think about it.

It's easier to imagine the end of the world than it is the end of "capitalism". I didn't coin the phrase.

The human species has decided to dig up and burn as much of the earth's finite resources to make as much money as possible RIGHT NOW, rather than build a sustainable world where everyone benefits.

It's a feature, not a bug.

Our current oligarchs are OK with it. Catabolic collapse is built into the world we've built up, and their plans are to destroy remaining nation-states and instead devolve back down into feudal city-states that they own and operate. Everything is on track.

That's not a conspiracy theory, just ask any of the current oligarchs. They like to call it "Dark Enlightenment". Musk calls it Dark MAGA. He even has a hat.

We're all Wile E. Coyote waiting for the momentum of 300+ years to end. Some of us are unaware and are still looking to catch the Roadrunner. Some of us are looking back in shock and confusion. And some of us are aware of what is about to happen and are holding up a sign to warn others about it.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's easier to imagine the end of the world than it is the end of "capitalism". I didn't coin the phrase.

Nice quote and pretty much what I am saying. But the thing that interests me is why it is so? It is analogous in my opinion to when I say we would rather die than awaken or even kill to prevent it. What is the root of such insanity. I think it is the escape into a delusional reality to avoid feeling what we really feel. If you want to have some fun, try convincing people they actually believe they are the worst in the world, or that our real inner truth isn’t in our philosophy, but in what we unconsciously feel and deny.

Like alcoholism denial or drug addiction, no cure is possible unless one has realized a problem exists. Addiction has an invisible enabler. It is the addict that pretends it seeks a cure while indulging in the addictive substance.

It does not have to be that way. People are able to beat addiction in spite of themselves.

 

[nickqt]

Nice quote and pretty much what I am saying. But the thing that interests me is why it is so? It is analogous in my opinion to when I say we would rather die than awaken or even kill to prevent it. What is the root of such insanity. I think it is the escape into a delusional reality to avoid feeling what we really feel. If you want to have some fun, try convincing people they actually believe they are the worst in the world, or that our real inner truth isn’t in our philosophy, but in what we unconsciously feel and deny.

Like alcoholism denial or drug addiction, no cure is possible unless one has realized a problem exists. Addiction has an invisible enabler. It is the addict that pretends it seeks a cure while indulging in the addictive substance.

It does not have to be that way. People are able to beat addiction in spite of themselves.

Preventing catabolic collapse requires decreasing consumption and planning for the future.

Decreasing consumption decreases wealth accumulation for the people who already own and operate society for their own benefit. So that's a non-starter for them.

And decreasing consumption means that we're not going to get better and better new stuff all the time, and almost everyone alive now is used to that, so that itself would be seen as "collapse".

Altruism is planting a tree knowing that you're not the person who is going to benefit from the fruits and shade of that tree. Usually the people who argue for that are demonized as communists, socialists, radicals, moochers, etc. They get thrown into prison, they get murdered by the state, etc. Even arguing for things around the edges of altruism get you labeled a lunatic by a plurality of society, otherwise we'd already be building sustainability.

I'm not going to get into self-hatred or whatever because that's just a lot of excessive language stating that people are selfish and will fight to maintain what they have and fight to get more at the expense of others.

 

[Moonbeam]

Preventing catabolic collapse requires decreasing consumption and planning for the future.

Decreasing consumption decreases wealth accumulation for the people who already own and operate society for their own benefit. So that's a non-starter for them.

And decreasing consumption means that we're not going to get better and better new stuff all the time, and almost everyone alive now is used to that, so that itself would be seen as "collapse".

Altruism is planting a tree knowing that you're not the person who is going to benefit from the fruits and shade of that tree. Usually the people who argue for that are demonized as communists, socialists, radicals, moochers, etc. They get thrown into prison, they get murdered by the state, etc. Even arguing for things around the edges of altruism get you labeled a lunatic by a plurality of society, otherwise we'd already be building sustainability.

I'm not going to get into self-hatred or whatever because that's just a lot of excessive language stating that people are selfish and will fight to maintain what they have and fight to get more at the expense of others.

Your analysis, I think is correct. But you leave it as a fact dismissing what in my opinion is the reason you choose to see it that way. That extra verbiage to me the way out, a possibility, as makes capitalism more important than the end of the world. It is verbiage or psycho babble, and millions of other things because it is how we create the world as hopeless as we feel. You can’t describe what it is to awaken to fact, but you can point to it with verbiage. Only you can help yourself. I can’t make you drink.

 

[nickqt]

Your analysis, I think is correct. But you leave it as a fact dismissing what in my opinion is the reason you choose to see it that way. That extra verbiage to me the way out, a possibility, as makes capitalism more important than the end of the world. It is verbiage or psycho babble, and millions of other things because it is how we create the world as hopeless as we feel. You can’t describe what it is to awaken to fact, but you can point to it with verbiage. Only you can help yourself. I can’t make you drink.

Trying to help people who would personally kill you if you were able to successfully make them understand that they hate themselves is itself a form of self-hatred. And around and around we go.

 

[Moonbeam]

Trying to help people who would personally kill you if you were able to successfully make them understand that they hate themselves is itself a form of self-hatred. And around and around we go.

Imagine that your self worth is proportional to the value if your aim. There is a Buddhist prayer I find appealing that goes, “I wow to save all sentient beings.” I thought also, owing to the difficulties involved, it would be a good idea not to have a need for success. There is a Sufi saying that goes, “Be careful of those you try to help.”

And remember too that if the illness we suffer is hatred of self, what were you before you got that way. Do we suffer for the loss of a devil, or for the god within? What we were is not lost but hidden behind Wong assumptions we behold sacred. Everybody is enlightened. It would be nice to know it.

Truth, your truth does not depend on my own psychological state. It is true if it is true no matter who says it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Maybe it would be useful to look at self hate by some other name and address it from hopefully a more approachable direction. A major discovery of psychological sciences originally by Freud is that there is something referred to as the unconscious, and that it secretly influences our actions and all of this related to repressed traumatic events. Many people believe this has proven a useful tool in Psychoanalysis in the cure of highly neurotic people. Many are able to see this as factual when it is applied to someone else, the patient, for example. The only additional things I am claiming is that the nature of traumatic experience evolves being put down as a child for expressing a need for real love, something our guardians long ago lost the capacity to fully express. This is why I say we live in a world full of vacuum cleaners sucking on vacuum cleaners. The situation is resolved by making the child stop demanding by being made to feel worthless and by being put down when asking for love.

We survive the only way we can, by surrendering our right to demand love as a birthright, to conform and to substitute ego for real self love, self flattery. pretense, and gamesmanship. In order to undo the effects of such early and profound conditioning requires a form of acknowledgement and acceptance that nobody was to blame for any of this. It just happens mechanically when one remains unconscious of one's own personal responsibility. My job is to save myself, to try to root up negative beliefs. All I can do for you is pass on what I regard as valuable information. I learned all this from people who told me. Personal experience has suggested to me I was told the truth.

 

[cytg111]

BANG. TRAP. SPRUNG.

 

[sandorski]

The best solution to the US's woes is to take a bunch of money from the Top and throw it to the Bottom. Taxes, Wages, and/or Other as the method doesn't matter, it just needs to be done until all can live with Basic Needs fulfilled.