With shrinking budgets, schools look to families to fill supply gap

[rudder]

Washington D.C. spends $20,000 per student. The highest in the nation.... and their schools rank lower than Alabama's schools. They definitely need more money... none of those students in DC can get ipads and they are falling way behind.

 

[werepossum]

I don't know enough about other countries and their school systems to compare ours to theirs. What you theorize might be true, it might not be.

However, given the vastly different nature of our structure as a country (local/state/federal) and vastly different needs in different school districts that a national / federal driven school system would be much inferior to one where decisions are made at the local level. I don't think as a parent anyone would want some behemoth school system that would be completely non-responsive to all but the wealthiest and powerful, run from DC by the same idiots that run the government, and that locally parents would have zero input into the education of their children. No thanks.

Amen. Plus such a system might require even more money; the federal government would need people locally to administer it and oversee it, and being federal employees they would have much better pay and benefits.

Chances are you didn't have many students that were from single parent families or low income families. It's not uncommon for the local groceries stores, TV or Radio stations looking for people to buy school supplies for underprivileged children. Parents are expected to buy/supply (pencils, crayons, paper) more than what their child will come close to using during the school so these items can be given to those who can't afford to purchase the items

The schools have the standard cleaning supplies and the rooms are cleaned in the afternoon but due to today's climate the classrooms must be supplied with kleenex, clorex sanitary wipes, hand sanitizer, and other germ fighting supplies that are not considered to be part of the normal budgeting cleaning supplies.

Ah! As always, the real culprit is - Climate Change!

Schools spend entirely too much on bullshit administration and not enough on the teachers who do the actual work. And the administration has to justify their exorbitant salaries so they have to change the standards every couple years or people might realize that they aren't contributing fuck all to the education process. And when those standards are constantly shifting, all it does is negatively impact student success because half the shit you just taught them is now deemed irrelevant. Our education system is absurdist comedy because we are terrible at allocating resources in an efficient way.

True, but I don't think it's the administrators deciding that they want to change things or hire more employees. I've been in meetings where they are complaining about having to hire specialist positions to meet state or federal standards (often just for tabulating and reporting data) when they need to hire more teachers. I've also seen some damned silly demands from school board members and from parents.

I do agree with you that we negatively affect students by buying into whatever fad is being sold this year, but from what I've seen that is driven at the state or federal levels.

 

[Zorkorist]

It's outrageous today what school costs.

If I was Reagan I would fire them all.

-John

 

[bozack]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/frustra...xpands-families-required-to-fill-in-the-gaps/

I remember in my early days of school everything would be provided. Better times I guess.

I'd rather buy it myself so that way I know what my child is getting, this article is about a bunch of bitchy babies, if you can't afford some hand sanitizer and soap then you should have really reconsidered your financial situation before having a child.

 

[Zorkorist]

Academia is like unfettered Government.

They have their own little world, and they are charging exorbitantly to get in.

They get paid off, because... Government.

-John

 

[alcoholbob]

Washington D.C. spends $20,000 per student. The highest in the nation.... and their schools rank lower than Alabama's schools. They definitely need more money... none of those students in DC can get ipads and they are falling way behind.

Seems like impoverished students in India with nothing more than a blackboard and some chalk can get a better education than DC students.

 

[alcoholbob]

Free trade. We exported our wealth.

Free trade is based on the principle of comparative advantage. That you should not stem the flow of goods via tariffs or embargoes.

The offshoring of manufacturing capital really has nothing to do with free trade. No where in free trade literature discusses absolute advantage, which would be shipping factories from Japan and Germany to some third world country, have all your managers and engineers train foreign labor, then get laid off, and have migrant labor/children slave away 20 hours a day for pennies, and to create legislation in those countries to prevent competition and to cement a monopoly for multinational corporations.

What you are describing is global corporatism, which is the opposite of free trade, and only serves to limit competition and create globally government-backed monopolies in the private sector. As far as laws passed in this country in the name of "free trade", remember this, there's a law called the Patriot Act. The name of a government law rarely resembles the actual legislation on paper.

 

[Zorkorist]

As soon as you have Government, there is no more free trade.

Don't blame free trade, blame Government.

-John

 

[realibrad]

This thread makes me sad. We spend tons of money per student, and yet people complain that we are under funding our schools. So far I have seen people say its because of free trade, vouchers taking money from public schools, and funding going to charter schools.

Cost per public student is higher than ever. That fact dismisses all the things said so far. If all the jobs lost and tax revenue with them mattered, the cost per student would be down, its not. If vouchers were taking funding and putting it in non-public schools, per student public school funding would be down, its not. Money going to charter schools would also only matter if the cost per public student were down, and its not.

The cost per public student is higher than ever. When you compare the cost per student in the US to other western nations, you get the picture its not a funding issue.


https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66

From 2000–01 to 2011–12, current expenditures per student enrolled in the fall in public elementary and secondary schools increased by 11 percent (from $9,904 to $11,014 in constant 2013–14 dollars).

Instruction expenditures include salaries and benefits of teachers and teaching assistants as well as costs for instructional materials and instructional services provided under contract.

There is more than enough money flowing around, its just that our system costs far more to run than almost every other country.

 

[Zorkorist]

Well, yeah. Teachers are making out like bandits.

-John

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Back in your times, people survived just fine without lysol wipes and hand sanitizer. I would laugh in their face. There is a reason random diseases start cropping up again, and part of it is incredibly weak immune systems.

Which random diseases?

 

[realibrad]

Well, yeah. Teachers are making out like bandits.

-John

Its not all the teachers. In the expenses is the costs of books and other things that the schools way over pay for. There is almost zero competition for things like books.

 

[shortylickens]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/frustra...xpands-families-required-to-fill-in-the-gaps/

I remember in my early days of school everything would be provided. Better times I guess.

I was born in 79. At no point did school provide anything to me, at least not free.

We had deposits on our books and if they came back trashed or not at all, we lost our deposit. My parents always had to purchase all supplies, each and every year. Had to pay for lab supplies in science, and work supplies for shop. And art. Had to buy our own book covers, or make them from paper bags.

Had to pay for lunch. And later when breakfast was offered, that wasnt free either.
Had to pay for field trips. Paid for all after school activities as well.


I guess everyone else in the country had it different than I did, seems to be a lot of anger about paying for stuff now. Weird.

 

[Zorkorist]

Well, yeah, it's edutopia.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

I was born in 79. At no point did school provide anything to me, at least not free.

We had deposits on our books and if they came back trashed or not at all, we lost our deposit. My parents always had to purchase all supplies, each and every year. Had to pay for lab supplies in science, and work supplies for shop. And art. Had to buy our own book covers, or make them from paper bags.

Had to pay for lunch. And later when breakfast was offered, that wasnt free either.
Had to pay for field trips. Paid for all after school activities as well.


I guess everyone else in the country had it different than I did, seems to be a lot of anger about paying for stuff now. Weird.

The anger is that to buy books for college now is over $500 for one semester at college.

The anger now is that the College also charges $5,000 for that one semester at college.

Fucking ridiculous.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Government, state and federal, and local, made their name on education.

(Cavemen: let's all get together and pool our resources, and hire a teacher.)

Today, it is crazy expensive and destroys students that are unprepared.

-John

 

[Zorba]

I don't know enough about other countries and their school systems to compare ours to theirs. What you theorize might be true, it might not be.

However, given the vastly different nature of our structure as a country (local/state/federal) and vastly different needs in different school districts that a national / federal driven school system would be much inferior to one where decisions are made at the local level. I don't think as a parent anyone would want some behemoth school system that would be completely non-responsive to all but the wealthiest and powerful, run from DC by the same idiots that run the government, and that locally parents would have zero input into the education of their children. No thanks.

I completely agree that a federal school system would be awful. But does Oklahoma need 520 school districts? (1 for every 7500 people in the state) Each with their own set of administration, usually with vastly inflated payrolls. Right now the average district covers 134 square miles, but some of the larger city schools are over 400 square miles, so why not consolidate the others until they are at least that large?

 

[Zorba]

I was born in 79. At no point did school provide anything to me, at least not free.

We had deposits on our books and if they came back trashed or not at all, we lost our deposit. My parents always had to purchase all supplies, each and every year. Had to pay for lab supplies in science, and work supplies for shop. And art. Had to buy our own book covers, or make them from paper bags.

Had to pay for lunch. And later when breakfast was offered, that wasnt free either.
Had to pay for field trips. Paid for all after school activities as well.


I guess everyone else in the country had it different than I did, seems to be a lot of anger about paying for stuff now. Weird.

I was born in 84 and had the same experience. But now I've seen dry erase markers, chalk, paper plates/towels, zip lock bags, etc on school supply lists. I know my parents didn't buy chalk for the school back then.

Then again, in my day, every room didn't have a TV, DVD player, Digital Protectors or smart screens. I also learned to do math with pencil paper, not a TI-83.

 

[xaeniac]

how about getting rid of the useless multi million dollar software programs that are not worth the price paid!

One other problem with USA education: They try to make all the teachers the same thus stifling innovation!

 

[1prophet]

From the 1960's to the mid 1970's we had the Apollo program that put men on the moon six times, It required tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of support personal and contractors

What was different in the schooling and curriculum that those people had in primary as well as secondary schools compared to today?

 

[werepossum]

Free trade is based on the principle of comparative advantage. That you should not stem the flow of goods via tariffs or embargoes.

The offshoring of manufacturing capital really has nothing to do with free trade. No where in free trade literature discusses absolute advantage, which would be shipping factories from Japan and Germany to some third world country, have all your managers and engineers train foreign labor, then get laid off, and have migrant labor/children slave away 20 hours a day for pennies, and to create legislation in those countries to prevent competition and to cement a monopoly for multinational corporations.

What you are describing is global corporatism, which is the opposite of free trade, and only serves to limit competition and create globally government-backed monopolies in the private sector. As far as laws passed in this country in the name of "free trade", remember this, there's a law called the Patriot Act. The name of a government law rarely resembles the actual legislation on paper.

Good points, although I'd still like to see some good old-fashioned protectionism and tariffs. If we can't compete with other nations, let's at least go back to funding our government on imports.

I was born in 79. At no point did school provide anything to me, at least not free.

We had deposits on our books and if they came back trashed or not at all, we lost our deposit. My parents always had to purchase all supplies, each and every year. Had to pay for lab supplies in science, and work supplies for shop. And art. Had to buy our own book covers, or make them from paper bags.

Had to pay for lunch. And later when breakfast was offered, that wasnt free either.
Had to pay for field trips. Paid for all after school activities as well.


I guess everyone else in the country had it different than I did, seems to be a lot of anger about paying for stuff now. Weird.

Me too, and I was born in '60. You were issued books, but you were also required to pay to replace them if they weren't turned back in good condition. But as Zorba points out, there are today things like white board markers and erasers which were furnished. This is also hard on teachers since the more things they put on the list, the more likely that some students don't or can't furnish them and quite often those are funded from the teachers' pockets.

I completely agree that a federal school system would be awful. But does Oklahoma need 520 school districts? (1 for every 7500 people in the state) Each with their own set of administration, usually with vastly inflated payrolls. Right now the average district covers 134 square miles, but some of the larger city schools are over 400 square miles, so why not consolidate the others until they are at least that large?

Agreed. Any county with a medium or large city would probably be better off going metro, to reduce the duplication in overhead. When our city gave up its school system the county cost to run all the government schools was considerably higher than the total for the two systems, but the county also provides a better education and better buildings, with significantly more money going into the classroom than in the old city system. I suspect that after the first few years of fixing the things the city couldn't afford to fix, the overall cost is the same or less for a better product.

 

[IGBT]

public school tuition is the answer..and cull the superfluous curriculum. The US spends more money per student and has the lowest Return On Investment.