Will the top speed @ cas 2 go down on the rev2 now since I am assuming that the rev3 is just tested rev2 sticks?
With Mushkin Rev3 sticks out, what happens to rev2?
- Thread starter Syborg1211
- Start date
They are not. They are 256 meg revision 2 sticks with 128 megs removed. Then test. They use infineon 7.5 ns chips rather than 7 ns mosel vitelic chips like the revision 2.
I'm sorry, it might just be the beer or something, but I can't seem to make much sense of what you just said. Could you please restate what you said hanpan with different wording?( I am not necesarily saying to dumb it down, I just cant understand what you are trying to say 
)
)dam beer huh?
he meant that rev3 doesn't use mosel chips, but Infineon chips, and that they're tested @150mhz cas2. (which the rev2 will also do, and even higher too, so I don't know why you'd want to buy rev3)
he meant that rev3 doesn't use mosel chips, but Infineon chips, and that they're tested @150mhz cas2. (which the rev2 will also do, and even higher too, so I don't know why you'd want to buy rev3)
I also meant to say that they are rev 2 256 meg dimms with 128 megs removed therefore making them 128 meg dimms. They use infineon cips rated at 7.5 ns. Rev 3 is supossed to do cas2 up to 166 but this is not guaranteed. The rev 2 128 meg dimms use mosel vitelic while the 256 meg dimms use infineon. The rev3 is the same dimms as teh 256 meg rev2 except with 128 megs removed and then tested. Hope this clears it up.
Here's the reference that explains what hanpan is talking about and describes the potential of the Infineon 7.5 chips:
Mushkin rev.2 with Infineon
Mushkin rev.2 with Infineon
Here are the main differences between rev 1.5, rev 2.0 and rev 3.0:
Let's start by asking What makes a good Module
There are lot's of factors that make a "quality" memory module, a quick list of them includes the following:
* Minimum and maximum trace lengths for all signals on the module
* Precise specifications for trace width and spacing
* 6 layer PCB's with unbroken power and ground planes
* Detailed specifications for the distances between each circuit board layer
* Precisely matched clock trace lengths, as well as routing, loading, and termination requirements
* Series termination resistors on the data lines
* SDRAM components must follow detailed specifications
* EEPROM programming must follow detailed specifications
* Special Marking Requirements
* ElectroMagnetic Interference Suppression
* Selectively gold plated printed circuit boards
As you can see, there is a potential for a lot of differences between memory modules. However, there are two main parts that go into the equation of determining a quality DIMM: the DRAM chips themselves and the PCB (Printed Circuit Board). Both parts of this equation carry an equal weight, meaning that if you have some very high performing and ultra reliable SDRAM chips on a poorly manufactured PCB your module is most likely not living up to its true potential.
The difference between all of Mushkin's modules is that they use different chips and PCB's. Mushkin's more expensive memory modules are better designed (read: higher quality), and will run faster more consistently than the less expensive modules. Mushkin's high quality modules allow for more aggressive memory timings and they will allow for overclocking past 133MHz or/and using lower memory timings.
This is a good example of the possible differences you will see between less expensive and more expensive modules. The difference between the REV 1.5 and REV 2 memory modules is that the latest revision of the REV 2 has a different PCB, however they both use the same chips. The higher priced PCB has more fine tuned traces than the PCB that is used with the rev 1.5. This allows for a shorter path and less electrical interference (i.e. crosstalk). Less distance + Less electrical interference = clearer signal = better stability at higher speeds. Rev 1.5 was already stable at 133MHz with a CAS of 2, so the improvements in REV 2 will allow for more potential overclocking.
The difference between REV 2 and REV 3 is that the REV 3 uses even higher quality chips than the REV 2, however they both use the same PCB. The chips on the REV 3 chips aren't only different but they have twice the capacity (16x8 vs 8x8) of the chips on the REV 2 module, so the REV 2 modules are double sided modules (meaning there are chips on both sides of the PCB) and REV 3 modules are single sided modules. This is good because this will mean the capacitance load on the memory bus will be lower which helps with overclocking, especially with multiple modules installed. The article at http://www.lostcircuits.com/memory/rev3/ explains this further. Also, i815(e) chipset based motherboards motherboards only support "a maximum of 2 double sided or 3 single sided DIMMs may be populated when the SDRAM interface is operating at 133MHz. Upon detection that additional rows are populated beyond these configurations, the BIOS must downshift the SDRAM clocks to 100MHz through a 2-wire interface of the system clock generator.". This is quoted from page 18 of the Intel i815 chipset datasheet available at ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/29068801.pdf
Hope that helps,
Let's start by asking What makes a good Module
There are lot's of factors that make a "quality" memory module, a quick list of them includes the following:
* Minimum and maximum trace lengths for all signals on the module
* Precise specifications for trace width and spacing
* 6 layer PCB's with unbroken power and ground planes
* Detailed specifications for the distances between each circuit board layer
* Precisely matched clock trace lengths, as well as routing, loading, and termination requirements
* Series termination resistors on the data lines
* SDRAM components must follow detailed specifications
* EEPROM programming must follow detailed specifications
* Special Marking Requirements
* ElectroMagnetic Interference Suppression
* Selectively gold plated printed circuit boards
As you can see, there is a potential for a lot of differences between memory modules. However, there are two main parts that go into the equation of determining a quality DIMM: the DRAM chips themselves and the PCB (Printed Circuit Board). Both parts of this equation carry an equal weight, meaning that if you have some very high performing and ultra reliable SDRAM chips on a poorly manufactured PCB your module is most likely not living up to its true potential.
The difference between all of Mushkin's modules is that they use different chips and PCB's. Mushkin's more expensive memory modules are better designed (read: higher quality), and will run faster more consistently than the less expensive modules. Mushkin's high quality modules allow for more aggressive memory timings and they will allow for overclocking past 133MHz or/and using lower memory timings.
This is a good example of the possible differences you will see between less expensive and more expensive modules. The difference between the REV 1.5 and REV 2 memory modules is that the latest revision of the REV 2 has a different PCB, however they both use the same chips. The higher priced PCB has more fine tuned traces than the PCB that is used with the rev 1.5. This allows for a shorter path and less electrical interference (i.e. crosstalk). Less distance + Less electrical interference = clearer signal = better stability at higher speeds. Rev 1.5 was already stable at 133MHz with a CAS of 2, so the improvements in REV 2 will allow for more potential overclocking.
The difference between REV 2 and REV 3 is that the REV 3 uses even higher quality chips than the REV 2, however they both use the same PCB. The chips on the REV 3 chips aren't only different but they have twice the capacity (16x8 vs 8x8) of the chips on the REV 2 module, so the REV 2 modules are double sided modules (meaning there are chips on both sides of the PCB) and REV 3 modules are single sided modules. This is good because this will mean the capacitance load on the memory bus will be lower which helps with overclocking, especially with multiple modules installed. The article at http://www.lostcircuits.com/memory/rev3/ explains this further. Also, i815(e) chipset based motherboards motherboards only support "a maximum of 2 double sided or 3 single sided DIMMs may be populated when the SDRAM interface is operating at 133MHz. Upon detection that additional rows are populated beyond these configurations, the BIOS must downshift the SDRAM clocks to 100MHz through a 2-wire interface of the system clock generator.". This is quoted from page 18 of the Intel i815 chipset datasheet available at ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/29068801.pdf
Hope that helps,
Andrey,
Where do you see that the Infineon chips on the 256MB rev.2 module are different from the Infineon chips on the 128MB rev.3 module? The Lost Circuits article seems to suggest that they are exactly the same. I also notice that the rev.3 page on the Mushkin site shows a picture of the Infineon chip with the markings HYB39S128800CT-7.5. This is the chip used on 256MB rev.2 module. I know because I have one I bought a couple of weeks ago. So the difference between rev.2 and rev.3 is likely that rev.3 uses even more finely "hand picked" chips so that Mushkin can guarantee 150MHz.
Where do you see that the Infineon chips on the 256MB rev.2 module are different from the Infineon chips on the 128MB rev.3 module? The Lost Circuits article seems to suggest that they are exactly the same. I also notice that the rev.3 page on the Mushkin site shows a picture of the Infineon chip with the markings HYB39S128800CT-7.5. This is the chip used on 256MB rev.2 module. I know because I have one I bought a couple of weeks ago. So the difference between rev.2 and rev.3 is likely that rev.3 uses even more finely "hand picked" chips so that Mushkin can guarantee 150MHz.
So buying 256 mb stick of rev2 will be like buying rev3 but with more ram?
And, will the i815 chipset support one stick of rev2 128 ram and one stick of rev2 256 at the same time?
And, will the i815 chipset support one stick of rev2 128 ram and one stick of rev2 256 at the same time?
Syborg 1211,
You should call Mushkin toll free to confirm the differences, if any, between the 256MB rev.2 and the 128MB rev.3. I believe that the ability to mix RAM modules depends on your motherboard. I know that my Soyo can take different sizes. You might just look up the specs for the i815 board you have in mind.
You should call Mushkin toll free to confirm the differences, if any, between the 256MB rev.2 and the 128MB rev.3. I believe that the ability to mix RAM modules depends on your motherboard. I know that my Soyo can take different sizes. You might just look up the specs for the i815 board you have in mind.
peemo- I was more referring to the limitations of the i815 chipset that andrey mentioned. I will be getting the MSI 815e Pro soon.
Oh sorry, I see. But if the 815 can take 2 doubles or three singles at 133MHz, wouldn't it accept 1 dounble and 1 single, i.e. your combination of a 256MB and a 128MB?
This is from the MSI manual for the 6337 mobo:
2.3-3 Memory Population Rules
1. Supports only SDRAM DIMM.
2. To operate properly, at least one 168-pin DIMM module must be in-stalled.
3. This mainboard supports Table Free memory, so memory can be installed
on DIMM1, DIMM2, DIMM3 or DIMM4 in any order.
4. Supports 3.3 volt DIMM.
5. The DRAM addressing and the size supported by the mainboard is
shown at the next page.
6. Supports up to 3 Double Sided DIMMs at 100Mhz system memory bus
and 2 Double Sided DIMMS at 133Mhz system memory bus.
Note: It is not recommended to install a Double Side DIMM module to
DIMM 3 and DIMM 4 at the same time as this will not function
properly. To make use of DIMM 3 and DIMM 4 at the same time,
insert a Single Side DIMM module to each of them. Please use the
same type or model of SDRAM. Moreover, you should always use
DIMM 3 if you have only one Single Side DIMM module. Installing
it on DIMM 4 is not allowed and this will not function properly.
Refer to the table below for proper combination.
DIMM1 DIMM2 DIMM3 DIMM4
DS/SS DS/SS DS X
DS/SS DS/SS SS SS
DS/SS DS/SS X DS
DS/SS DS/SS SS X
DS: Double Side DIMM
SS: Single Side DIMM
X: None/Cannot be installed
The following page, which I can't copy here from *.pdf format, shows Table 2.3.1 SDRAM Memory Addressing which shows RAM combinations. I don't see a 384MB combo (256 + 128) but I'm having trouble interpreting the info. You'd better ask around first about how to mix 1 DS + 1 SS on this board.
Good luck.
This is from the MSI manual for the 6337 mobo:
2.3-3 Memory Population Rules
1. Supports only SDRAM DIMM.
2. To operate properly, at least one 168-pin DIMM module must be in-stalled.
3. This mainboard supports Table Free memory, so memory can be installed
on DIMM1, DIMM2, DIMM3 or DIMM4 in any order.
4. Supports 3.3 volt DIMM.
5. The DRAM addressing and the size supported by the mainboard is
shown at the next page.
6. Supports up to 3 Double Sided DIMMs at 100Mhz system memory bus
and 2 Double Sided DIMMS at 133Mhz system memory bus.
Note: It is not recommended to install a Double Side DIMM module to
DIMM 3 and DIMM 4 at the same time as this will not function
properly. To make use of DIMM 3 and DIMM 4 at the same time,
insert a Single Side DIMM module to each of them. Please use the
same type or model of SDRAM. Moreover, you should always use
DIMM 3 if you have only one Single Side DIMM module. Installing
it on DIMM 4 is not allowed and this will not function properly.
Refer to the table below for proper combination.
DIMM1 DIMM2 DIMM3 DIMM4
DS/SS DS/SS DS X
DS/SS DS/SS SS SS
DS/SS DS/SS X DS
DS/SS DS/SS SS X
DS: Double Side DIMM
SS: Single Side DIMM
X: None/Cannot be installed
The following page, which I can't copy here from *.pdf format, shows Table 2.3.1 SDRAM Memory Addressing which shows RAM combinations. I don't see a 384MB combo (256 + 128) but I'm having trouble interpreting the info. You'd better ask around first about how to mix 1 DS + 1 SS on this board.
Good luck.
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