With allies like this, who needs enemies.

[tvarad]

US think tank: Pakistan helped Taliban insurgents

"KABUL, Afghanistan - Pakistani intelligence agents and paramilitary forces have helped train Taliban insurgents and have given them information about American troop movements in Afghanistan, said a report published Monday by a U.S. think tank."


The Pakistani Army has been a survivor throughout it's history, if nothing else. To maintain it's pre-eminence in Pakistan (mainly for the privileges that it brings), it has morphed time and again from being the top-dog to pariah and everything else in-between but without relinquishing it's iron grip on power in Pakistan even when it was being sent to the dog-pound. This has included coup after coup, defeats at the hand of India (one of which resulted in the breakup of the country), being the facilitator of the Afghan resistance to the Soviet Union invasion and so on. And in the same spirit, it joined the "war on Terror" the day after it was announced to survive the heat and as time wears on, it's back to playing the game it knows best: run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.

In this scenario, the disingenuous Bush government still thinks it's best bet in Pakistan is to still trust the army. The rogue nuclear threat is not from Iran or Syria or some such whose movements are being closely monitored by Israel (nothing keeps your sensory organs in shape like the threat of being eaten), but from rogue elements within Pakistan who have the know-how and ability to pass the bomb to Al-Qaeda operatives. Why the Western governments are not taking it seriously enough to eliminate the threat is beyond me.

 

[RichardE]

Pakistan has been helping the Taliban since the Taliban decided to uprise in Afghanistan decades ago. (Either just before or just after Soviet invasion). The reason being is Talibans Jihad helped keep India's army busy and was a cheap way to kill people from India indirectly. I'm surprised a "think tank" came up with this now since its been known for that Pakistan have been helping the Taliban for a while.


Good book for a nice history of Taliban, Pakistan, and US interaction which sort of led to all this (Afghanistan not Iraq)

http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wa...eptember/dp/1594200076


Edit** Pakistan also has a pretty long history of trying to balance two forces at the same time and reaping rewards from each (Playing RussiaVsUS during the cold war type thing).

 

[palehorse]

This is a known side-effect of an impotent central government. IOW, there are elements within the Pakistani military who are beyond the control of their own government -- many of which are sympathetic to various terrorist or rebel groups, both inside and outside of Pakistan.

Trust me, our intelligence and DoD folks are quite aware of the situation(s). As you said, Pakistan has been this way for decades...

 

[dphantom]

I hope no one paid for that study. The Taliban were setup by Pakistan in the first place, particularly well supported by elements of the ISI. This is nothing new and has been a constant source of friction between the US and Pakistan since the Afghan war started.

 

[The Green Bean]

I'm afraid you boys will have to suck it up and deal with it. It's fairly obvious that neither the Americans nor the Pakistanis will get their way so a compromise has to be worked out. Being the most powerful does not always mean you always get what you want. We have our own agenda and that will always be given precedence over yours. We've suffered most from America's illegal wars and we are not getting enough in return. The security situation has gotten out of control and the economic growth has slowed. We've spend much more on military problems arising from the incompetence of NATO in Afghanistan than received from the USA. The Taliban are not even a real threat. The real threats are food inflation and oil prices. The real threats are illegal wars by your superiors. The real threats are those made by Jews against Iran. Those are the real threats which will kill millions - not some closet monster make belief enemy. How stupid does the American public have to be to believe what their government tells them even after they were exposed telling lives that cost millions of lives and trillions of dollars? If I were one of them I'd ask for proof for the yet again baseless claims designed to take millions of lives.

 

[Lemon law]

The myth here is that Pakistan is our ally or that they should do our bidding. Lets face the damn facts, when AL-Quida used Afghanistan to attack the USA on 911, it became a matter of finding and punishing Osama Bin Laden and Al-Quida. When the taliban leadership of Afghanistan refused to turn over Bin Laden, our punishment priority suddenly changed and we went after the taliban who did not attack us on 911. And because our priorities changed, Ossama Bin Laden is still uncaught and unpunished.

But as soon as GWB&co decided to attack Afghanistan, they needed a land route into Afghanistan because Afghanistan is landlocked. And the list of countries that had such a land route was limited to two and only two. The USA could go hat in hand to Iran or they could go to Pakistan and ask PERMISSION for such a supply route into Afghanistan.

And we have to understand that Pakistan was very reluctant to grant such permission because the taliban was acting in Pakistan's national interests by bring some measure of order out of chaos in Afghanistan, which in turn opened up Pakistani trade routes into the various Stans to the North. And it was a given that any invasion had to bring back chaos in Afghanistan for some interim period, there was a lose something for Pakistan and gain nothing.

But we all know GWB&co, who basically made Musharrif an offer he could not refuse as he played Monti Hall with the taxpayers money. And the basic deal was, Pakistan lends the USA a route road into Afghanistan, the USA is limited to just that land road with no other permission to trespass on Pakistani soil, Pakistan gets billions in military aid. and GWB basically promised to restore Afghani STABILITY SWIFTLY so Pakistan could again use those trade routes.

And we all know that Musharrif is not the only person in the history of the world to be lied to by GWB&co. And here we are six years later and Afghanistan is still in total chaos
because GWB&co. wants to wage an inept since day one occupation on the TOTAL CHEAP. And Musharrif is barely on speaking terms with Karzia because Krazia has no interest in bringing any law and order to any part of Afghanistan past the single city of Kabul.

And this is the way GWB treats a country it wants to call an ally. Yet we have people in our government and on this forum who think we need to assert a right to put boots on the ground in Pakistan. When they may or may not realize that was expressly defined as something not allowed under the deal. And if the USA does not watch their manners, one fine day the Pakistanis will shut the land road they lent us down and we can either march out through Iran or airlift everyone out.

Meanwhile, back in Pakistan, they are very effective at containing Al-Quida, because Pakistan has arrested more Al-Quida agents than the rest of the world combined. And meanwhile back in Afghanistan, Nato kill far more innocent civilians than Al-Quida while they allow local war lords to subjugate the living. And the people of Pakistan look West and vow, if thats what US boot on the ground has brought to Afghanistan, we sure as hell will not allow US boots on the ground in Pakistan.