With all these retro cars should BMW bring back the 2002?

[JulesMaximus]

And no, the 1 series doesn't count. It is too heavy and far too expensive to count.

 

[JJ650]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
And no, the 1 series doesn't count. It is too heavy and far too expensive to count.

Would a retro 2002 built to todays BMW standards not be about the same as the 1 Series??
I think it would be.



**EDIT**

Egads, I left out some vital words & placement in that "sentence".

Sorry!

 

[Black88GTA]

The 1 series is what the 2002 would have been if it were released today. You could never release something like the 2002 now and still keep it "true" to the original, IMO. First off, you'd have to conform to all safety / emissions regs at an absolute minimum to keep the government happy.

Then comes acceptable fuel consumption, reliability (no carbs), creature comforts, interior appointments, noise insulation, power options, etc. that the manufacturers (especially a high-end nameplate like BMW) practically have to include in their cars to generate any kind of sales. A car without these things at a BMW price point would have very very few buyers. And with all of this stuff, of course, comes lots of extra weight and a high price tag.

Tack all that shit onto an old 2002, with the increased weight and price, and you get a 1-series Style it how you will, maybe take cues from the old 2002, but the new car would be nothing like the original.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Black88GTA
The 1 series is what the 2002 would have been if it were released today. You could never release something like the 2002 now and still keep it "true" to the original, IMO. First off, you'd have to conform to all safety / emissions regs at an absolute minimum to keep the government happy.

Then comes acceptable fuel consumption, reliability (no carbs), creature comforts, interior appointments, noise insulation, power options, etc. that the manufacturers (especially a high-end nameplate like BMW) practically have to include in their cars to generate any kind of sales. A car without these things at a BMW price point would have very very few buyers. And with all of this stuff, of course, comes lots of extra weight and a high price tag.

Tack all that shit onto an old 2002, with the increased weight and price, and you get a 1-series Style it how you will, maybe take cues from the old 2002, but the new car would be nothing like the original.

They could have done it so much better than the 1 series though. That thing looks like someone hit it with an ugly stick...repeatedly.

 

[Black88GTA]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Black88GTA
The 1 series is what the 2002 would have been if it were released today. You could never release something like the 2002 now and still keep it "true" to the original, IMO. First off, you'd have to conform to all safety / emissions regs at an absolute minimum to keep the government happy.

Then comes acceptable fuel consumption, reliability (no carbs), creature comforts, interior appointments, noise insulation, power options, etc. that the manufacturers (especially a high-end nameplate like BMW) practically have to include in their cars to generate any kind of sales. A car without these things at a BMW price point would have very very few buyers. And with all of this stuff, of course, comes lots of extra weight and a high price tag.

Tack all that shit onto an old 2002, with the increased weight and price, and you get a 1-series Style it how you will, maybe take cues from the old 2002, but the new car would be nothing like the original.

They could have done it so much better than the 1 series though. That thing looks like someone hit it with an ugly stick...repeatedly.

Can't argue with that really. I'm not a huge fan of the 1 either. I don't hate it, but wouldn't buy one. The line is too blurred between the 1 and the 3 series - they are too close in size, in my opinion.

 

[DonaldC]

Would the new 2002 be more reliable? I guess they would. I remember the owners I knew with one were always getting something fixed.

 

[Aharami]

Im torn on the 1 series. On one hand the 135i is fun as heck to drive, and turbo means easy access to added power. But on the other hand...not too keen on the looks at all.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Black88GTA

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Black88GTA
The 1 series is what the 2002 would have been if it were released today. You could never release something like the 2002 now and still keep it "true" to the original, IMO. First off, you'd have to conform to all safety / emissions regs at an absolute minimum to keep the government happy.

Then comes acceptable fuel consumption, reliability (no carbs), creature comforts, interior appointments, noise insulation, power options, etc. that the manufacturers (especially a high-end nameplate like BMW) practically have to include in their cars to generate any kind of sales. A car without these things at a BMW price point would have very very few buyers. And with all of this stuff, of course, comes lots of extra weight and a high price tag.

Tack all that shit onto an old 2002, with the increased weight and price, and you get a 1-series Style it how you will, maybe take cues from the old 2002, but the new car would be nothing like the original.

They could have done it so much better than the 1 series though. That thing looks like someone hit it with an ugly stick...repeatedly.

Can't argue with that really. I'm not a huge fan of the 1 either. I don't hate it, but wouldn't buy one. The line is too blurred between the 1 and the 3 series - they are too close in size, in my opinion.

The 1 series is like the ugly midget cousin to the 3 series...inferior in every way yet only slightly so in price.

 

[ballmode]

I hate to say it but I would almost want the 128 with sports package just to save the headaches of the turbos 100k miles later

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: ballmode
I hate to say it but I would almost want the 128 with sports package just to save the headaches of the turbos 100k miles later

Ditto with the Audis. I seldom hear of a Turbo Audi or VW lasting more than ~120k miles without some serious work with the turbos, fuel delivery, the top end of the motor, and what not. I expect the *35i BMW's to be more of the same.

Of course, many people who drive those kinds of cars trade them in after 2 years or just lease them for a short period anyway, and those concerns are a non-issue.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: ballmode
I hate to say it but I would almost want the 128 with sports package just to save the headaches of the turbos 100k miles later

Ditto with the Audis. I seldom hear of a Turbo Audi or VW lasting more than ~120k miles without some serious work with the turbos, fuel delivery, the top end of the motor, and what not. I expect the *35i BMW's to be more of the same.

Of course, many people who drive those kinds of cars trade them in after 2 years or just lease them for a short period anyway, and those concerns are a non-issue.

Yeah, that world of hurt is going to fall on the poor saps who buy them second or third hand.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Black88GTA

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Black88GTA
The 1 series is what the 2002 would have been if it were released today. You could never release something like the 2002 now and still keep it "true" to the original, IMO. First off, you'd have to conform to all safety / emissions regs at an absolute minimum to keep the government happy.

Then comes acceptable fuel consumption, reliability (no carbs), creature comforts, interior appointments, noise insulation, power options, etc. that the manufacturers (especially a high-end nameplate like BMW) practically have to include in their cars to generate any kind of sales. A car without these things at a BMW price point would have very very few buyers. And with all of this stuff, of course, comes lots of extra weight and a high price tag.

Tack all that shit onto an old 2002, with the increased weight and price, and you get a 1-series Style it how you will, maybe take cues from the old 2002, but the new car would be nothing like the original.

They could have done it so much better than the 1 series though. That thing looks like someone hit it with an ugly stick...repeatedly.

Can't argue with that really. I'm not a huge fan of the 1 either. I don't hate it, but wouldn't buy one. The line is too blurred between the 1 and the 3 series - they are too close in size, in my opinion.

The 1 series is like the ugly midget cousin to the 3 series...inferior in every way yet only slightly so in price.

Trying to ignore bait.

 

[rh71]

The 1 definitely needs a price reduction but the performance is there, especially given the weight. But everytime I see one passing by, I look at its ass and think it's a Ford. The only saving grace are the nicer rims that make it look somewhat sporty. I understand what BMW is doing, but out-the-door for $40k+ for a 1-series? Only with other people's money.

 

[cheesehead]

IMO, the current M3 is close enough to the orginal 2002.

What I want is a Hyundai Genesis Coupe Spec-R. Cheap, handles well, reasonably reliable and well made, and the endless aftermarket upgrades outnumber the stars. If they made a shooting-brake version, it would be even more awesome.

Or a Suzuki Swift Sport, providing it's under $13k.

 

[theeedude]

Yes, they should make a sub 3000 lbs coupe. Something like an RX-8 but with a conventional engine.
Actually if Mazda themselves built one, it would be in my garage now.

 

[evident]

i dont know how anyone can possibly like the looks of the 1 series. if they could make the 2002 nicer than the 1, then yeah go fori t

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: rh71
The 1 definitely needs a price reduction but the performance is there, especially given the weight. But everytime I see one passing by, I look at its ass and think it's a Ford. The only saving grace are the nicer rims that make it look somewhat sporty. I understand what BMW is doing, but out-the-door for $40k+ for a 1-series? Only with other people's money.

My old boss bought a brand new 335i coupe recently for $42k. It looks sexy as hell and has a proper manual transmission. Why would anyone buy the 135i when you can get such a sweet deal on the much better looking 335?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: ballmode
I hate to say it but I would almost want the 128 with sports package just to save the headaches of the turbos 100k miles later

Ditto with the Audis. I seldom hear of a Turbo Audi or VW lasting more than ~120k miles without some serious work with the turbos, fuel delivery, the top end of the motor, and what not. I expect the *35i BMW's to be more of the same.

Of course, many people who drive those kinds of cars trade them in after 2 years or just lease them for a short period anyway, and those concerns are a non-issue.

Eh, I'm not so sure. Turbos can work just fine in high-mileage vehicles. I'm over 160k and still climbing with my 951 and there haven't been issues with the turbo. Closing in on 130k with the S70 and the turbo's still in great shape on that too. Water cooling for turbos is a fantastic advantage.

Still whether BMW's application will work as well remains to be seen.

ZV

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
IMO, the current M3 is close enough to the orginal 2002.

Uh? I don't see it.

2002

135

M3

If anything, the 1 is more like the 2002, but BMW wont go backwards. I doubt they will ever resurrect an old model.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: ballmode
I hate to say it but I would almost want the 128 with sports package just to save the headaches of the turbos 100k miles later

Ditto with the Audis. I seldom hear of a Turbo Audi or VW lasting more than ~120k miles without some serious work with the turbos, fuel delivery, the top end of the motor, and what not. I expect the *35i BMW's to be more of the same.

Of course, many people who drive those kinds of cars trade them in after 2 years or just lease them for a short period anyway, and those concerns are a non-issue.

Eh, I'm not so sure. Turbos can work just fine in high-mileage vehicles. I'm over 160k and still climbing with my 951 and there haven't been issues with the turbo. Closing in on 130k with the S70 and the turbo's still in great shape on that too. Water cooling for turbos is a fantastic advantage.

Still whether BMW's application will work as well remains to be seen.

ZV

I am just about to hit 115K on my Passat 1.8T with zero turbo/fuel delivery problems. I expect other things to go out before the turbo...

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: JJ650
Would a retro 2002 built to todays BMW standards

these standards?

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Uh? I don't see it.

It's a really fast 2+2 BMW coupe. Same thing, looks different.

 

[Doggiedog]

Have 3700 miles on my 335i and my fuel pump has been replaced once already. After 1200 miles the replacement is is starting to act up too.

I agree with Black88GTA on the 135i. It is definitely what a 2002 would be today. The 2002 was fast for its time, the 135i does 0-60 under 5 secs. The car is not for everyone but I'm sure the 2002 wasn't either. I remember when the 320i came out, that's when BMWs started becoming somewhat mainstream.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

coincedently, i saw a 2002 today. i always loved the pencil-thin pillars and tiny little wheels. there was a problem with a cylinder being starved for oil in turns - was that ever fixed?

 

[Unmoosical]

Anyone else disappointed with how BMW has incorporated so many different vehicles into the line-up? I guess it's just a way to expand and make more money but about 10 years ago they only had a few different models and I thought they were each done very well. The 3, 5, and 7 were their staples and the Z was getting more popular.

Since then, they've brought back the 6, added the 1, X5, X3, X6.... While I do like some of them I'd rather see BMW continue to advance their main few lines so there isn't any doubt as to what car company produced the ultimate driving machine.....

Speaking of which, I can't wait till my next trip home to drive the M535i.