With all of the shenanigans that have occured at Tyco...

[Random Variable]

why are stockholders still willing to tolerate the fact that Tyco's corporate headquarters is registered offshore?

For those who don't know, while Tyco is based in New Hampshire, Tyco's corporate headquarters are registered in Bermuda.

I consider myself "pro-business," but why U.S. companies are allowed to pull this scam is beyond me.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
why are stockholders still willing to tolerate the fact that Tyco's corporate headquarters is registered offshore?

For those who don't know, while Tyco is based in New Hampshire, Tyco's corporate headquarters are registered in Bermuda.

I consider myself "pro-business," but why U.S. companies are allowed to pull this scam is beyond me.

Because it makes a better bottoms line. A better bottom line, means happy shareholders.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
why are stockholders still willing to tolerate the fact that Tyco's corporate headquarters is registered offshore?

For those who don't know, while Tyco is based in New Hampshire, Tyco's corporate headquarters are registered in Bermuda.

I consider myself "pro-business," but why U.S. companies are allowed to pull this scam is beyond me.

Shareholders are only interested in dividends.

 

[Random Variable]

Shareholders are only interested in dividends.

Suddenly stockholders are interested in dividends? They couldn't care less about them in the '90's.

Because it makes a better bottoms line. A better bottom line, means happy shareholders.

Not if the CEO is robbing money from the company.

 

[Random Variable]

Imagine if all U.S. companies did this, though.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Shareholders are only interested in dividends.

Suddenly stockholders are interested in dividends? They couldn't care less about them in the '90's.

There are growth stocks like microsoft and then there are stocks that pay dividends.

Because it makes a better bottoms line. A better bottom line, means happy shareholders.

Not if the CEO is robbing money from the company.

You gotta save money anyway you can

 

[zephyrprime]

Imagine if all U.S. companies did this, though.

Yeah. The whole idea of having companies "headquartered" someplace and then using that as a basis of tax jurisdiction is anachronistic in my opinion. I think we should use some sort of system that is based on where a company conducts business rather than where it's HQ is located.

 

[hzl eyed grl]

Evil shenanigans?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime

Imagine if all U.S. companies did this, though.

Yeah. The whole idea of having companies "headquartered" someplace and then using that as a basis of tax jurisdiction is anachronistic in my opinion. I think we should use some sort of system that is based on where a company conducts business rather than where it's HQ is located.

If only Internation tax law were that easy.

The Tax code in the US has given companies reason to move away to places less taxing.

 

[Random Variable]

Some of the more well-known guilty companies:

Accenture (Chicago)
APW (Waukesha, Wis.)
Cooper Industries (Houston)
Everest Reinsurance Group (Liberty Corner, N.J.)
Foster Wheeler (Clinton, N.J)
Global SantaFe (Dallas)
Gold Reserve (Spokane, Wash.)
Helen of Troy Cosmetics (El Paso)
Ingersoll-Rand (Woodcliff Lake, N.J.)
Leucadia National (New York)
McDermott International (New Orleans)
Monday Ltd. (New York)
Nabors Industries (Houston)
Noble Drilling (Sugar Land, Tex.)
PXRE Group (Edison, N.J.)
Treansocean Offshore (Houston)
Tyco International (Exeter, N.H.)
Veritas DGC (Houston)
Weatherford International (Houston)
White Mountains Insurance (White River Junction, Vt.)
Xoma (Berkeley, Calif.)

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: hzl_eyed_grl
Evil shenanigans?

As compared to good shenanigans?

 

[Random Variable]

More than 13,000 international companies are based on the island.

:Q

http://www.tax-news.com/asp/story/story.asp?storyname=9048

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

More than 13,000 international companies are based on the island.

:Q

http://www.tax-news.com/asp/story/story.asp?storyname=9048

What you see here is the laffer curve hard at work.

 

[Mister T]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

More than 13,000 international companies are based on the island.

:Q

http://www.tax-news.com/asp/story/story.asp?storyname=9048

HAHAHAH... yea right...

I know for a fact that U.S. pension funds look to invest in Offshore Hedge funds and offshore private equity funds....

Vespasian,

Your list is a joke... I can name at least 10 insurance companies that are domiciled in Bermuda that do 90%+ business in the U.S.
Insurance Companies Incoropating offshore is nothing new, in fact, its the preferred way since an insurance company's liabilities are a bunch of contracts and its liabilities are a big investment account....

 

[Michael]

zephyrprime - The US tax laws are set up so that the business that is conducted in the US is taxed in the US. Companies like Tyco move their HQ's out of the US not to avoid tax on their US operations, but to avoid US tax on their foreign operations. The tax laws are written in such a way that there is a big bonus for that type of operational structure. Instead of blaming the corporations, go talk to your Representative about changing the tax laws.

Michael

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Mister T

Originally posted by: Vespasian

More than 13,000 international companies are based on the island.

:Q

http://www.tax-news.com/asp/story/story.asp?storyname=9048

HAHAHAH... yea right...

I know for a fact that U.S. pension funds look to invest in Offshore Hedge funds and offshore private equity funds....

Vespasian,

Your list is a joke... I can name at least 10 insurance companies that are domiciled in Bermuda that do 90%+ business in the U.S.
Insurance Companies Incoropating offshore is nothing new, in fact, its the preferred way since an insurance company's liabilities are a bunch of contracts and its liabilities are a big investment account....

The insurance industry itself is a scam. I don't expect much from them.

 

[Mister T]

Originally posted by: Michael
zephyrprime - The US tax laws are set up so that the business that is conducted in the US is taxed in the US. Companies like Tyco move their HQ's out of the US not to avoid tax on their US operations, but to avoid US tax on their foreign operations. The tax laws are written in such a way that there is a big bonus for that type of operational structure. Instead of blaming the corporations, go talk to your Representative about changing the tax laws.

Michael

Just off the top of my head:

ACE
XL
Everest RE
Partner RE
Montpelier Re
Axis Specialty
Endurance Re
Allied World

all Bermuda based insurance companies, which mainly do business in the U.S. through reinsurance contracts which happen to be exempt from U.S. corporate taxes.... The first 5 in my list are publically traded and trade on the NYSE....

The insurance industry itself is a scam. I don't expect much from them.

Warren Buffet said that about internet companies about 5 years ago... guess who's still around?

 

[0roo0roo]

seems bermuda owns our politicians

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Mister T

Originally posted by: Michael
zephyrprime - The US tax laws are set up so that the business that is conducted in the US is taxed in the US. Companies like Tyco move their HQ's out of the US not to avoid tax on their US operations, but to avoid US tax on their foreign operations. The tax laws are written in such a way that there is a big bonus for that type of operational structure. Instead of blaming the corporations, go talk to your Representative about changing the tax laws.

Michael

Just off the top of my head:

ACE
XL
Everest RE
Partner RE
Montpelier Re
Axis Specialty
Endurance Re
Allied World

all Bermuda based insurance companies, which mainly do business in the U.S. through reinsurance contracts which happen to be exempt from U.S. corporate taxes.... The first 5 in my list are publically traded and trade on the NYSE....

The insurance industry itself is a scam. I don't expect much from them.

Warren Buffet said that about internet companies about 5 years ago... guess who's still around?

You utterly misinterpreted what I said. My position is that since the insurance industry itself is a scam, I expect insurance companies to do unsavory things.

 

[Mister T]

You utterly misinterpreted what I said. My position is that since the insurance industry itself is a scam, I expect insurance companies to do unsavory things.

I think you might have misundertsood my response... The insurance industry is not a scam - My intent in bringing up the tech bubble was to illustrate what a scam really looks like. The insurance industry is one of the oldest, most mature industries in the U.S. Society as you and I know it, would not be able to function without it. If you think its a "rip-off," please check the profitability of mainstream insurance companies.. it is quite difficult to sustain a 12% ROE over the long run as an average insurance company...

You want to know what a real scam is in the insurance industry? Asbestos liability from the 1960's... thats a load of BS.

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Mister T

You utterly misinterpreted what I said. My position is that since the insurance industry itself is a scam, I expect insurance companies to do unsavory things.

I think you might have misundertsood my response... The insurance industry is not a scam - My intent in bringing up the tech bubble was to illustrate what a scam really looks like. The insurance industry is one of the oldest, most mature industries in the U.S. Society as you and I know it, would not be able to function without it. If you think its a "rip-off," please check the profitability of mainstream insurance companies.. it is quite difficult to sustain a 12% ROE over the long run as an average insurance company...

You want to know what a real scam is in the insurance industry? Asbestos liability from the 1960's... thats a load of BS.

I have this mindset that if you don't produce/manufacture something tangible, you're not a "real" company. Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not saying that our society could function without insurance companies and other financial institutions.

 

[Michael]

Vespasian - are software companies on your list of "unreal" companies? How about service companies (cleaning services, lawn care)? Medical services (what does a check up really produce)?

That is a limiting point of view.

Michael

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Michael
Vespasian - are software companies on your list of "unreal" companies? How about service companies (cleaning services, lawn care)? Medical services (what does a check up really produce)?

That is a limiting point of view.

Michael

Why do you care what's on my stupid list?

 

[kherman]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Shareholders are only interested in dividends.

Suddenly stockholders are interested in dividends? They couldn't care less about them in the '90's.

There are growth stocks like microsoft and then there are stocks that pay dividends.

Then again, there are groth stocks that pay dividends. Examples :LLTC, PFE

 

[kherman]

INSURANCE

It is a real business. You pay them for a service. Example: $1000 a yea for a $150,000 house. This is an example. If it burns down, you get a new house for "free".

Why is it a scam? Well, if you get 150 people and all refuse to pay insurance and agree to help others in the group out in case of fire, etc.... you will save money. Tehrefore it is a scam.

The service they provide is incredible though. Insurance on a house makes sense. Insurance on appliances and TVs are wastes of money.