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With a good firewall, can someone get by with Windows XP Pro Service Pack 1 today?

T

thestain

Senior member
Hi,

Still learning.. thanks for all the input.. I saw a retail version of Windows out.. for about $200 for XP with Service Pack 1.. with my paranoid fears of MS world domination through control of my pc.. kidding.. but I am concerned.. from what I have read, no Trusted Platform Modules are activated until you get to XP service pack 2.. so... I was looking at Service Pack 1.. is it ok? any thouhts on Xp pro with Service Pack 1 as an operating system?

and.. I am looking for something like VMware workstation.. something as cheap as possible that will keep Windows from being accessed or accessing the net from my computer when I am on-line.. yes.. I have considered a stand alone.. but prefer just one computer.. and I don't want Windows as my computers main operating system.. I need it for business applications until someone writes em for linux.. so.. I just want Windows to help my handful of programs and maybe a few games work.. other than that.. I don't want much to do with Microsoft.. and I don't want Mr. Softie to be alive and well and doing as he pleased on my PC through his.. piss ant devices, like TPM's.

and.. any good ideas for firewire pc components?? favorite easy to learn linux os that will work well for firewall pc??

Lots of questions.. thanks for any and all input!!😀

The Stain
 
Maybe you should get OEM WinXP Professional Edition with SP2, and then just use your resulting downgrade rights to install Win2000 Pro SP4 instead. Use a router for firewall protection between it and all other computers. Win2000 Pro is supported by Microsoft through the end of August 2011, if I recall correctly.

I do know of a couple programs that need WinXP and will not install/run on Win2000, so check your software's prerequisites. No, using an unsupported version of Windows (meaning, WinXP SP1, come October its support expires) is not good practice.

If you really meant to ask about Firewire, find a card with the TI or NEC chips and avoid VIA, is the conventional wisdom.
 
Originally posted by: amac4me
It's recommended that you use SP2. SP2 has many needed fixes in version SP2 when compared to SP1.
Click to expand...
See, but he has a bad case of hatus tinfoilitus and thinks Microsoft is going to eventually get hold of his stash of Lego® pr0n by using teh SP2 powars. 😱

thestain, if you do use Win2000 Pro instead, check it over with Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer and address the issues it notes, such as blank/weak passwords and anonymous access.
 
XP SP1 to bot in four minutes

I can't find the link, but there was an even better one where a guy did a detailed study of how his tech machine got something like 24 malware programs installed just by viewing ONE web page with IE & XP-SP1.

I'll keep looking.



 
 
Thanks for the help.. I will look into sp Pro w/ sp4.. might be a good solution for a paranoid guy like me.. will check to see if my business programs could still use. I did see where xp pro w sp1 was not going to be supported.. foolish me.. i was considering getting the retail version in response.. please keep the help coming. 🙂

in regards to the malware and viruses.. is that with or without the good pc firewall??

I was thinking of a simple Asus terminator C3 800 mhz.. really slower.. but pci slot to add second needed nic so could use as a firewall.. then use something like puppy or devil linux.. I was thinking there were a lot of things you could turn off on XP pro, sp 1 and sp2, including not going on line as an admin.. that together with a good pc firewall were supposed to help.. so.. in regards to doornails comment that xp sp1 was very susceptible to attack.. would the pc fire wall work against this attack or not?

the Stain
 
might be a good solution for a paranoid guy like me..
Click to expand...

If you're really that paranoid you shouldn't be using Windows as at all, who knows what other insideous things MS has been doing behind our back even before SP2?
 
At home I use Win2K SP4, updated, software firewall and behind a router too.

I use Firefox over IE as well, so all in all I'm probably more secure than the average Joe using XP SP2.

Security isn't just about the OS, its about how you use the computer and the steps you take to keep yourself safer.
 
Originally posted by: stash
from what I have read, no Trusted Platform Modules are activated until you get to XP service pack 2
Click to expand...
What the hell are you going on about?
Click to expand...

I am just doing my best to learn more so that I can get the operating systems and hardware to give me, my friends and clients the best computing experience without being subject to the draconian controls of Microsoft and the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance which promises to take away many of our freedoms, including freedom of choice, as the powers that be will very much hinder competition and choice.

TC provides a computing platform on which you can't tamper with the application software, and where these applications can communicate securely with their authors and with each other.

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

from link, "There are some gotchas too. For example, TC can support remote censorship. In its simplest form, applications may be designed to delete pirated music under remote control. For example, if a protected song is extracted from a hacked TC platform and made available on the web as an MP3 file, then TC-compliant media player software may detect it using a watermark, report it, and be instructed remotely to delete it (as well as all other material that came through that platform). This business model, called traitor tracing, has been researched extensively by Microsoft (and others). In general, digital objects created using TC systems remain under the control of their creators, rather than under the control of the person who owns the machine on which they happen to be stored (as at present). So someone who writes a paper that a court decides is defamatory can be compelled to censor it - and the software company that wrote the word processor could be ordered to do the deletion if she refuses. Given such possibilities, we can expect TC to be used to suppress everything from pornography to writings that criticise political leaders.

The gotcha for businesses is that your software suppliers can make it much harder for you to switch to their competitors' products. At a simple level, Word could encrypt all your documents using keys that only Microsoft products have access to; this would mean that you could only read them using Microsoft products, not with any competing word processor. Such blatant lock-in might be prohibited by the competition authorities, but there are subtler lock-in strategies that are much harder to regulate. "

and.. this caught my eye.. much more in link.. but..

"Microsoft, who are now driving TC, were also motivated by the desire to bring entertainment within their empire. But they also stand to win big if TC becomes widespread. There are two reasons. The first, and less important, is that they will be able to cut down dramatically on software copying. `Making the Chinese pay for software' has been a big thing for Bill; with TC, he can tie each PC to its individual licenced copy of Office and Windows, and lock bad copies of Office out of the shiny new TC universe.

The second, and most important, benefit for Microsoft is that TC will dramatically increase the costs of switching away from Microsoft products (such as Office) to rival products (such as OpenOffice). For example, a law firm that wants to change from Office to OpenOffice right now merely has to install the software, train the staff and convert their existing files. In five years' time, once they have received TC-protected documents from perhaps a thousand different clients, they would have to get permission (in the form of signed digital certificates) from each of these clients in order to migrate their files to a new platform. The law firm won't in practice want to do this, so they will be much more tightly locked in, which will enable Microsoft to hike its prices.

Economists who have studied the software industry concluded that the value of a software business is about equal to the total costs of its customers switching out to the competition; both are equal to the net present value of future payments from the customers to the software vendor. This means that an incumbent in a maturing market, such as Microsoft with its Office product, can grow faster than the market only if it can find ways to lock in its customers more tightly. There are some ifs and buts that hedge this theory around, but the basic idea is well known to software industry executives. This explains Bill G's comment that `We came at this thinking about music, but then we realized that e-mail and documents were far more interesting domains'. "



 
Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
Originally posted by: stash
from what I have read, no Trusted Platform Modules are activated until you get to XP service pack 2
Click to expand...
What the hell are you going on about?
Click to expand...

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/pcdesign/TPM_secure.mspx
Click to expand...
I know what a TPM chip is, thanks. Did you even read what you linked to? What does that have to do with XP SP2? Nothing. TPM chips aren't 'activated' by any Microsoft OS. If you have a TPM 1.2 chip, you can utilize it for BitLocker volume encryption. That's it.
 
I am just doing my best to learn more so that I can get the operating systems and hardware to give me, my friends and clients the best computing experience without being subject to the draconian controls of Microsoft and the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance which promises to take away many of our freedoms, including freedom of choice, as the powers that be will very much hinder competition and choice.
Click to expand...
Which has simply nothing to do with your stated reason for not upgrading to XP SP2.

and.. this caught my eye.. much more in link.. but..
Click to expand...
That's a pretty silly point, considering there is nothing compelling people to USE Rights Management Services to protect their documents. I fail to see how RMS is taking rights away from people when it is completely voluntary. And, again, RMS and TC have nothing to do with your baseless objection to SP2, which is that it will 'activate' TPM chips.

So, do you just regurgitate FUD, or do you have your own opinions based in fact?
 
Hey stash.. why the hostility?

Please don't take my questions or comments or what I share on Microsoft, Intel or the TCG personally.. i mean no offense your way.. 🙂

I am looking for answers in light of my concerns with Microsoft and the whole Trusted thing.. I am not hiding any of this.. I think I have been prety open, and this is why. no service pack 2.. heck maybe no XP at alll.. I like MechBgons suggestion.. and I am reading up on Windows 2000 w/ Service Pack 4.

and.. where is the best place to buy Windows 2000 w or without service pack 4 or Windows XP w Service Pack 2, I know I can buy XP pro w/ sp2 from NewEgg, but it cost about $270 plus last time I checked.. and

How do I roll it back.. downgrade it to Windows 2000 w/ service pack 3 or 4?? I read up that you can do this, but how??

I could use all the help I can get.. help anyone?

The Stain
 
Matt and others,

From what I have read.. it only gets worse as you go from Windows 2000 to Windows Xp to Vista from EULA's to control of your PC, etc..

What I have read is Trustworthy computing is in the updates and service packs of both Windows 2000 and XP, but.. with 2k.. you can disable a few more things..

I am not sure the small performance hit, plus some of the trustworthy computing software being included in the service packs anyway makes going backward worthwhile.. but.. prior to building the bulls eyes computer with whatever Intel or AMD has and maybe Vista too. in a year or so.. I want to build my first system.. with as little of the "trusted" stuff in the os and in the hardware..

hence.. when I found out Microsoft had put a lot of weird stuff in Service Pack 2.. I started thinking.. maybe service pack 1.. and then based up mechbgons feedbackl. Windows 2k Pro with Service Pack 4... I think Windosws 2k with service pack 4 is better than XP pro with service pack 1 from wireless and usb standpoint.. but I am not sure.. but.. who knows what microsoft might load to our pcs anyway..

kind of wish intel and microsoft had not taken us to this point, but unless they back down.. and no sign they will.. we could lose a lot of tech and everyday life freedoms.. so.. I am concerned.

anyway.. plan to try to learn linux.. but.. I am visually challenged.. and eyes are sometimes good to read.. often not.. recently I have read more in a few months than the previos five years.. but.. when my eyes turn.. no or not much reading.. so..

anyway... learning about all of this has been a blast..

Any suggestions as to hardware or software.. just for my first build for max performance with minimum control over my pc by Microsoft, even though I need at least 2k for business.. would be very appreciated.

The Stain
 
FYI: "trustworthy computing" is Microsoft-ese for "we're trying to do better at not selling you a product with a ton of worm vulnerabilities waiting to be discovered and pwned." Not "we're trying to pry into your computer more & more."
 
I want to build my first system.. with as little of the "trusted" stuff in the os and in the hardware..
Click to expand...

That's like saying you want to build a kitchen with as few knives as possible because they can be used to kill people. The TPM stuff is actually really cool, it lets you have encryption keys stored in hardware that you know are 100% trustworthy. How this gets leveredged by the MPAA, RIAA, MS, etc may or may not be good for the consumer but the hardware itself is fine.

but.. who knows what microsoft might load to our pcs anyway..
Click to expand...

Which comes back to my point earlier, if you don't trust them why are you using their software?
 
All of my business software programs only run in an MS operating system..

and.. i am not alone in this.. if just a couple operated elsewhere.. more choices.. in regards to Nothinmans kitchen build analogy.. sounds like your take is more glass is one quarter full versus my take it is three quarters empty.. in regards to the knives, etc.. yes they are used for more than cutting food.. with MS.. they can be used to cut off the power to our content.. to our documents, to our work.. and.. what if a mass murderer got his hands on them.. but.. I am not advocating knife control or gun control.. just control of a stranger to me.. microsoft.. being able to push buttons to remove things from my computer, to blacklist.. to take control.. and the EULA's we sign to use their software give them a lot of rights.. but that does not make them "trustworthy".

the lowest level of control controls the pc.. something about having my resolution reduced on my tv or monitor, having my content removed from computer.. from all of cyberspace concerns me.. hence the rant.

The Stain
 
the lowest level of control controls the pc.. something about having my resolution reduced on my tv or monitor, having my content removed from computer.. from all of cyberspace concerns me.. hence the rant.
Click to expand...

And almost all of those concerns are a result of the MPAA and RIAA's attempt at controlling their media, not Microsoft's. MS doesn't sell any original music or video content so what do they have to gain from limiting your access to it?
 
Originally posted by: thestain

What I have read is Trustworthy computing is in the updates and service packs of both Windows 2000 and XP, but.. with 2k.. you can disable a few more things..
Click to expand...

Link?

I am not sure the small performance hit, plus some of the trustworthy computing software being included in the service packs anyway ...
Click to expand...

Link?

hence.. when I found out Microsoft had put a lot of weird stuff in Service Pack 2
Click to expand...

Like what, for instance?

kind of wish intel and microsoft had not taken us to this point, but unless they back down.. and no sign they will.. we could lose a lot of tech and everyday life freedoms.. so.. I am concerned.
Click to expand...

This is a direct result of the media content industries buying laws. Intel, Microsoft, AMD et al, probably wish they didn't have to direct R&D fund away from CPUs and OSes to develop this stuff.


anyway.. plan to try to learn linux.. but.. I am visually challenged.. and eyes are sometimes good to read.. often not.. recently I have read more in a few months than the previos five years.. but.. when my eyes turn.. no or not much reading.. so..

anyway... learning about all of this has been a blast..

Any suggestions as to hardware or software.. just for my first build for max performance with minimum control over my pc by Microsoft, even though I need at least 2k for business.. would be very appreciated.

The Stain
Click to expand...

The hardware itself isn't going to have any Trusted Computing modules installed in a big way for several years, most of the technology isn't really ready for prime time. Just buy what's top of the line for your budget limits, and you'll be alright. Just do your research to make sure you buy parts that don't have issues with each other (Example: the 7950GX2 isn't supported on all mobos, due to being SLI in a single slot). Good luck with your first build, and stop being so paranoid 😉
 
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