WISH Cancelled

[Malak]

Dear friends of Wish:

Unfortunately we have bad news.

After careful consideration of all the facts and analyzing all the data which we have gathered from the Wish Beta 2.0 test so far, we have decided to cancel the Wish project.

Our Beta test will end this evening at 6pm EST, and at this time our Beta forums will close as well.

We enjoyed working together with our fans very much, and we are very sorry about this development. We wish you the best of luck in the future, and hope that you continue to enjoy online gaming, even with Mutable Realms and Wish not being available anymore.

We also wish the best luck to our competitors, and hope that they will not suffer the same fate as us.

Best regards,
Your Mutable Realms Team

The worst part of it is, they made it this far. Unfortunately for Mutable Realms, their game sucked. It was beautiful, world design was great, monsters looked really cool... but it was more boring than watching paint dry. I think that this is a growing trend in MMOs today. They stick to the same basic gameplay as the first generation of MMO's and think it works. But the hot word for the day is level treadmill. Getting stuck killing goats for hours is not my idea of fun, I wouldn't do that even if it were free. But they expect you to pay to do this. What's worse is that 5 million of you gamers do just that.

More and more MMO's will be shut down, and more will die before they are born. The MMO's that will survive are the 2nd gen MMOs that already made a name for themselves and any MMO's that come from big names, like WoW. It's not that they are actually better, they are just what everyone already knows and is willing to try. Heck, even EA tried so many MMOs after UO and how many have survived to this day? Even UO is starting to lose subscribers...

The only truly unique MMO I've ever played was EVE, which happens to also be one of the most beautiful games I ever played as well. Even Gamespy gave it an award one year for the best looking game of the year. Not best looking MMO, best looking game period. But unfortunately a space sim isn't as popular as a medieval RPG, so it's not going to attract everyone.

There is a new MMO, The Matrix Online, which is coming out in the spring. It's specific theme is going to keep subscribers to a minimum too, but it's one of the best designed games I've ever played. They took unique approaches to everything, EVERYTHING. There are so many things to do while playing when it's released, from collecting items, to story line events, to missions and just hanging out at the bar. Monolith has done a fantastic job with this, but unfortunately it's theme will keep it less popular than others.

I'm wondering when someone will bother to make a medieval MMO that shakes the industry, showing new ways of doing things. Something worth my money. WISH had the right idea with the massive world, but someone needs to come back down to earth and think about the player.

 

[techwanabe]

Just saw that in Derek Smarts thread over at Avault.

Another one bites the dust! Looks like the MMORPG market is going to shake out some more dross. To many really. I'd rather see some new multiplayer capable RPG's with dept come out like Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Nights but modern up-to-date etc.

 

[Modeps]

I was accepted to this beta and never felt any interest in actually downloading the client. Probably good that I didnt!

PS: I think Malak is the only person that's spoken positively of Matrix Online.

 

[Hadsus]

Originally posted by: malak

Dear friends of Wish:

Unfortunately we have bad news.

After careful consideration of all the facts and analyzing all the data which we have gathered from the Wish Beta 2.0 test so far, we have decided to cancel the Wish project.

Our Beta test will end this evening at 6pm EST, and at this time our Beta forums will close as well.

We enjoyed working together with our fans very much, and we are very sorry about this development. We wish you the best of luck in the future, and hope that you continue to enjoy online gaming, even with Mutable Realms and Wish not being available anymore.

We also wish the best luck to our competitors, and hope that they will not suffer the same fate as us.

Best regards,
Your Mutable Realms Team

The worst part of it is, they made it this far. Unfortunately for Mutable Realms, their game sucked. It was beautiful, world design was great, monsters looked really cool... but it was more boring than watching paint dry. I think that this is a growing trend in MMOs today. They stick to the same basic gameplay as the first generation of MMO's and think it works. But the hot word for the day is level treadmill. Getting stuck killing goats for hours is not my idea of fun, I wouldn't do that even if it were free. But they expect you to pay to do this. What's worse is that 5 million of you gamers do just that.

More and more MMO's will be shut down, and more will die before they are born. The MMO's that will survive are the 2nd gen MMOs that already made a name for themselves and any MMO's that come from big names, like WoW. It's not that they are actually better, they are just what everyone already knows and is willing to try. .

WoW *is* better because they sweated the details, fleshed out an interesting world, and have a robust quest system that basically leads you were you need to go. 90% of the MMORPGs out there are the 'pay meetooooo' kinds of cash cow wannabies.....they don't sweat the details, they are not innovative, and don't give a chit of the immersiveness of the world. It ain't easy creating a virtual world.....as most developers have now begun to learn.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Hadsus
WoW *is* better because they sweated the details, fleshed out an interesting world, and have a robust quest system that basically leads you were you need to go. 90% of the MMORPGs out there are the 'pay meetooooo' kinds of cash cow wannabies.....they don't sweat the details, they are not innovative, and don't give a chit of the immersiveness of the world. It ain't easy creating a virtual world.....as most developers have now begun to learn.

WoW is the ugliest recent game I've seen. I wouldn't be able to stand playing it for more than 2 minutes, I can barely stand to watch my friend play. And he agrees it's ugly as dirt! The quest system is not robust, if you want a real quest system then you'll have to try The Matrix Online. One developer who works at Sigil now says it's the best quest system he's ever seen. And he's played WoW too. I did one quest for WoW and knew it wasn't going anywhere. I heard that quests kept you away from the level treadmill, but instead it sent me right back in. The quest was just to kill 10 creatures. Woopdeedo.

Originally posted by: Modeps
I was accepted to this beta and never felt any interest in actually downloading the client. Probably good that I didnt!

PS: I think Malak is the only person that's spoken positively of Matrix Online.

I've also probably been more involved in MXO than any other fan. And most negative comments I've seen are from people who played less than a week in early beta. Those comments are moot. Some of them remind me of people who get in beta and say it sucks because it's all buggy. Well duh, that's the point of beta. MXO has an enormous amount of innovation and positive points, mostly coming from brilliant developers. And I think most of the people interested in the game are happy it's been delayed almost a year, since nearly all other MMOs get rushed out the door which is a good way to kill them early.

 

[CrowDog]

Originally posted by: techwanabe
Just saw that in Derek Smarts thread over at Avault.

Another one bites the dust! Looks like the MMORPG market is going to shake out some more dross. To many really. I'd rather see some new multiplayer capable RPG's with dept come out like Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Nights but modern up-to-date etc.

I agree

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

The MMO genre is benig Ashlee-Simpson-ized. Look at all the goobers here who are all geeked out about WoW simple because it has the names Warcraft and Blizzard attached to it. Nevermind that they could have been playing the EXACT same game three years ago when it was called Dark Age Of Camelot.

Since every game coming out is basically the exact same post-EQ crap, what you need to distinguish yourself is a big time name.....like Simpson. That's why you'll see all the games like Wish and Dark and Light and Darkfall Online probably close up shop and make way for EQ with the name "Matrix" attached to it.

The tragedy here, of course, is that nobody ever attempted a UO clone. They were distinctly different even though both were MMOs. Each represented a mentality. UO was freedom, self-governance, depth, variety, and community. EQ was level up, get the pat on the head and do it again. EQ, thanks to the Pavlovian response of the average gamer, garnered more subscibers faster and held them longer. UO was unquestionable a deeper game, but the sheer amount of creativity and artistry that went into UO just would never be invested in a game again........not when you can slap together a treadmill give it the Warcraft name and call it an MMO.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
The MMO genre is benig Ashlee-Simpson-ized. Look at all the goobers here who are all geeked out about WoW simple because it has the names Warcraft and Blizzard attached to it. Nevermind that they could have been playing the EXACT same game three years ago when it was called Dark Age Of Camelot.

Since every game coming out is basically the exact same post-EQ crap, what you need to distinguish yourself is a big time name.....like Simpson. That's why you'll see all the games like Wish and Dark and Light and Darkfall Online probably close up shop and make way for EQ with the name "Matrix" attached to it.

The tragedy here, of course, is that nobody ever attempted a UO clone. They were distinctly different even though both were MMOs. Each represented a mentality. UO was freedom, self-governance, depth, variety, and community. EQ was level up, get the pat on the head and do it again. EQ, thanks to the Pavlovian response of the average gamer, garnered more subscibers faster and held them longer. UO was unquestionable a deeper game, but the sheer amount of creativity and artistry that went into UO just would never be invested in a game again........not when you can slap together a treadmill give it the Warcraft name and call it an MMO.

Hero that is the biggest pile of sh1t I have ever read here.. including the skyywalker66 threads.. you couldnt speak more outa your ass if you freaking tried...

WoW is not even close to the pile of sh1t that DOAC is or was.. totally differnt game totally different design...
WoW is popular becasue the game is amazing..and fun.. and the world is so detailed and incredible its fun to live there....

DAOC while I played it to after atlantis with 4 L50 chars and RR6 on every toon I played on... was boring but there was nothing else worth playing at the time... I had already "beat" EQ1 after playing it for 5 years * L55-65 toons all with TOV armour and sleepers tomb weps...
it got boring...

EQ1 was ok... it held my attention mainly becasue my guild was there.... if they had not been I wouldnt have played long at all...

WoW I will be playing guild or not for a very long time...
its an Adults MMO.. I can work a full week at work... and still manage to stay respectable level.. I can roll other toons and play and quest with friends and not worry about losing time on my main...

best MMO ever.. they remebered to make the game FUN first... and a lesser grind for Adults second...
brilliant idea... and the rest system is a brainstorm...

If you like to punish yourself and have absolutly 0 life then fine play EQ or EQ2.. but if your a 34+ year old adult with a job family and want to be able to go out and have fun.. yet still remain competitive.. then play WoW....

as for Matrix Online... biggest pile of crap since AC2.... been a founding beta member since the beta opened... tried and tried again every single build.... its still a unfun scripted PIle of crap...
the combat in that game is laughable...
the world is shalllow and empty and generally a bad engine....
bad bad game steer way clear of it..

 

[TheAudit]

WoW has been the only MMO I've stuck with since UO.
I can't imagine that there will ever be a sense of community like there was in UO again.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: TheAudit
WoW has been the only MMO I've stuck with since UO.
I can't imagine that there will ever be a sense of community like there was in UO again.

Remove levels, remove soulbound bs, relax the skill system, lessen the importance of equipment drastically, allow unrestricted pvp all the time and fully lootable player corpses, increase world size compared with population and it will happen.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
The MMO genre is benig Ashlee-Simpson-ized. Look at all the goobers here who are all geeked out about WoW simple because it has the names Warcraft and Blizzard attached to it. Nevermind that they could have been playing the EXACT same game three years ago when it was called Dark Age Of Camelot.

Since every game coming out is basically the exact same post-EQ crap, what you need to distinguish yourself is a big time name.....like Simpson. That's why you'll see all the games like Wish and Dark and Light and Darkfall Online probably close up shop and make way for EQ with the name "Matrix" attached to it.

The tragedy here, of course, is that nobody ever attempted a UO clone. They were distinctly different even though both were MMOs. Each represented a mentality. UO was freedom, self-governance, depth, variety, and community. EQ was level up, get the pat on the head and do it again. EQ, thanks to the Pavlovian response of the average gamer, garnered more subscibers faster and held them longer. UO was unquestionable a deeper game, but the sheer amount of creativity and artistry that went into UO just would never be invested in a game again........not when you can slap together a treadmill give it the Warcraft name and call it an MMO.

Hero that is the biggest pile of sh1t I have ever read here.. including the skyywalker66 threads.. you couldnt speak more outa your ass if you freaking tried...

WoW is not even close to the pile of sh1t that DOAC is or was.. totally differnt game totally different design...
WoW is popular becasue the game is amazing..and fun.. and the world is so detailed and incredible its fun to live there....

DAOC while I played it to after atlantis with 4 L50 chars and RR6 on every toon I played on... was boring but there was nothing else worth playing at the time... I had already "beat" EQ1 after playing it for 5 years * L55-65 toons all with TOV armour and sleepers tomb weps...
it got boring...

EQ1 was ok... it held my attention mainly becasue my guild was there.... if they had not been I wouldnt have played long at all...

WoW I will be playing guild or not for a very long time...
its an Adults MMO.. I can work a full week at work... and still manage to stay respectable level.. I can roll other toons and play and quest with friends and not worry about losing time on my main...

best MMO ever.. they remebered to make the game FUN first... and a lesser grind for Adults second...
brilliant idea... and the rest system is a brainstorm...

If you like to punish yourself and have absolutly 0 life then fine play EQ or EQ2.. but if your a 34+ year old adult with a job family and want to be able to go out and have fun.. yet still remain competitive.. then play WoW....

as for Matrix Online... biggest pile of crap since AC2.... been a founding beta member since the beta opened... tried and tried again every single build.... its still a unfun scripted PIle of crap...
the combat in that game is laughable...
the world is shalllow and empty and generally a bad engine....
bad bad game steer way clear of it..

What makes WoW fun? All you've said is that the world is so detailed. Yeah, that excitement will last another month tops, then what?.

And if you had 4 L50 chars with RR6 on DAOC then you played that game A LOT....a lot a lot, so I'm confused as to why you could spent an obscene amount of time playing DAoC when it was a "pile of sh1t".

Matrix Online is probably crap, I don't know. But it will be successful because it has a big name. That's my point.

 

[mchammer187]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: TheAudit
WoW has been the only MMO I've stuck with since UO.
I can't imagine that there will ever be a sense of community like there was in UO again.

Remove levels, remove soulbound bs, relax the skill system, lessen the importance of equipment drastically, allow unrestricted pvp all the time and fully lootable player corpses, increase world size compared with population and it will happen.

i agree with some of your suggestions

but removing soulbinding would completey destroy the economy without some kind of fix

lower drop rates 1000x which only delay's the problem

or have item decay where there is a point of no repair


soulbinding is better solution than any of those IMO

fully lootable would only encourage ganking
if you got to loot everything including equip of someone's corpse that would destroy the game IMO

because this only encourages griefing and doing this would require you to play all day to ever be able to compete

as for the skill system i don't see anything wrong with that
imo it is far to lax

i can train any ranged weapon withing 3-4 hours

starting from zero to max skill pretty much

melee even quicker


i think skills should be tougher to acquire because it encourages you to think about you want want to do with your character

my char is fully trained in all weapons that it can use pretty much except fist weapons
and i think that is pretty ridiculous

 

[Hadsus]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: Hadsus
WoW *is* better because they sweated the details, fleshed out an interesting world, and have a robust quest system that basically leads you were you need to go. 90% of the MMORPGs out there are the 'pay meetooooo' kinds of cash cow wannabies.....they don't sweat the details, they are not innovative, and don't give a chit of the immersiveness of the world. It ain't easy creating a virtual world.....as most developers have now begun to learn.

WoW is the ugliest recent game I've seen. I wouldn't be able to stand playing it for more than 2 minutes, I can barely stand to watch my friend play. And he agrees it's ugly as dirt! The quest system is not robust, if you want a real quest system then you'll have to try The Matrix Online. One developer who works at Sigil now says it's the best quest system he's ever seen. And he's played WoW too. I did one quest for WoW and knew it wasn't going anywhere. I heard that quests kept you away from the level treadmill, but instead it sent me right back in. The quest was just to kill 10 creatures. Woopdeedo.

You musta only tried the horde.....they are ugly and their lands are ugly (IMO, of course). The story is quite different with Alliance where their lands are very cool and inviting. IIRC, their are many more players playing Alliance than Horde.

Regarding quests, yes there are alot of kill quests but also alot of others that is combined kill, gather resources, see X, Y or Z. This is a MMORPG after all and what you spend most of your time doing is killing (unless your a crafter), of course. What else would you expect. Reading your response it is pretty clear you know squat about WoW questing. You've done just one quest by your own admission. Yeah, sure, you're an expert allright, LOL. You hate WoW and your just gonna slam it however you can.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
The MMO genre is benig Ashlee-Simpson-ized. Look at all the goobers here who are all geeked out about WoW simple because it has the names Warcraft and Blizzard attached to it. Nevermind that they could have been playing the EXACT same game three years ago when it was called Dark Age Of Camelot.

Since every game coming out is basically the exact same post-EQ crap, what you need to distinguish yourself is a big time name.....like Simpson. That's why you'll see all the games like Wish and Dark and Light and Darkfall Online probably close up shop and make way for EQ with the name "Matrix" attached to it.

The tragedy here, of course, is that nobody ever attempted a UO clone. They were distinctly different even though both were MMOs. Each represented a mentality. UO was freedom, self-governance, depth, variety, and community. EQ was level up, get the pat on the head and do it again. EQ, thanks to the Pavlovian response of the average gamer, garnered more subscibers faster and held them longer. UO was unquestionable a deeper game, but the sheer amount of creativity and artistry that went into UO just would never be invested in a game again........not when you can slap together a treadmill give it the Warcraft name and call it an MMO.

Hero that is the biggest pile of sh1t I have ever read here.. including the skyywalker66 threads.. you couldnt speak more outa your ass if you freaking tried...

WoW is not even close to the pile of sh1t that DOAC is or was.. totally differnt game totally different design...
WoW is popular becasue the game is amazing..and fun.. and the world is so detailed and incredible its fun to live there....

DAOC while I played it to after atlantis with 4 L50 chars and RR6 on every toon I played on... was boring but there was nothing else worth playing at the time... I had already "beat" EQ1 after playing it for 5 years * L55-65 toons all with TOV armour and sleepers tomb weps...
it got boring...

EQ1 was ok... it held my attention mainly becasue my guild was there.... if they had not been I wouldnt have played long at all...

WoW I will be playing guild or not for a very long time...
its an Adults MMO.. I can work a full week at work... and still manage to stay respectable level.. I can roll other toons and play and quest with friends and not worry about losing time on my main...

best MMO ever.. they remebered to make the game FUN first... and a lesser grind for Adults second...
brilliant idea... and the rest system is a brainstorm...

If you like to punish yourself and have absolutly 0 life then fine play EQ or EQ2.. but if your a 34+ year old adult with a job family and want to be able to go out and have fun.. yet still remain competitive.. then play WoW....

as for Matrix Online... biggest pile of crap since AC2.... been a founding beta member since the beta opened... tried and tried again every single build.... its still a unfun scripted PIle of crap...
the combat in that game is laughable...
the world is shalllow and empty and generally a bad engine....
bad bad game steer way clear of it..

What makes WoW fun? All you've said is that the world is so detailed. Yeah, that excitement will last another month tops, then what?.

And if you had 4 L50 chars with RR6 on DAOC then you played that game A LOT....a lot a lot, so I'm confused as to why you could spent an obscene amount of time playing DAoC when it was a "pile of sh1t".

Matrix Online is probably crap, I don't know. But it will be successful because it has a big name. That's my point.

hero you didnt read what i wrote at all.. the game could look like UO 1996 and It would still be incredible...
I have been playing for almost a year now... I was an Alpha tester remeber...
im almost 60 and have started trying other classes and trying the Horde side...
still a blast to play even though Horde side does indeed suck mega balls...
Alliance world is so much better its not even close...
its everything about it... the quest system the world.. the skills the classes... the game is great....
much better game than anything I have played....
ive been doing MMOs since UO 1996 did EQ DOAC, AC, AC2, EnB, EVE, L2, SB, beta for Matrix... Beta for EQ2, final EQ2 for less than 2 weeks... alpha for WoW and now retail WoW...
WoW has what I want from a game...Im tired of having to put my life on hold to grind to keep up with my guild...
In WoW i dont have to... its a fun game not a grind hiding a crappy game

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

hero you didnt read what i wrote at all.. the game could look like UO 1996 and It would still be incredible...
I have been playing for almost a year now... I was an Alpha tester remeber...
im almost 60 and have started trying other classes and trying the Horde side...
still a blast to play even though Horde side does indeed suck mega balls...
Alliance world is so much better its not even close...
its everything about it... the quest system the world.. the skills the classes... the game is great....
much better game than anything I have played....
ive been doing MMOs since UO 1996 did EQ DOAC, AC, AC2, EnB, EVE, L2, SB, beta for Matrix... Beta for EQ2, final EQ2 for less than 2 weeks... alpha for WoW and now retail WoW...
WoW has what I want from a game...Im tired of having to put my life on hold to grind to keep up with my guild...
In WoW i dont have to... its a fun game not a grind hiding a crappy game

I read what you wrote, but didn't find an answer to my question.

Even an exceptionally fun game will get boring after a while. MMOs circumvent this by giving you a reason to play even when the game is no longer fun. In EQ clone games like WoW, it's the treeadmill. Level up the class, try another class, try all classes, finally quit the game. What made UO so great was that it didn't rely on a treadmill. UO, once it ceased to be fun, became a microcosm of life. It was having your gaming experience constantly altered by the inconstant moods and desires of your fellow players who could make a certain plot of land terrifyingly dangerous or a center for amicable trading. You advanced your characters skills and holdings to secure your own interests, which, depending on the play, could be many or few.

I can appreciate that WoW is casual game friendly.......for now. DAoC was for a while too before ToA. They're all usually easy in the beginning....but all EQ-based treadmill MMOs need to extend the carrot when gamers get too close.

So when you're talking about an MMO, using the term "fun" is laughable. You'll spend a ton of time in the game and the graphics and combat and environment WILL get repetitive. No MMO can compete with a SRPG for "fun" because single player games are crafted with much better stories and characters and graphics. That's why I find your pervent replies so strange and continue to seek clarification.

 

[Megadeth]

I'm afraid I didnt get a chance to try Wish... I never could get into UO or EQ. I tried them both for a month and didnt like them. I have been delaying trying out WoW for fear that it will also be a disapointment. Right now I run my own Free MMORPG, I put a link up in the Free Full Computer Games Thread about it. The website is in my profile if anyone is interested.

 

[Weeeman]

Originally posted by: Hadsus

Originally posted by: malak

Dear friends of Wish:

Unfortunately we have bad news.

After careful consideration of all the facts and analyzing all the data which we have gathered from the Wish Beta 2.0 test so far, we have decided to cancel the Wish project.

Our Beta test will end this evening at 6pm EST, and at this time our Beta forums will close as well.

We enjoyed working together with our fans very much, and we are very sorry about this development. We wish you the best of luck in the future, and hope that you continue to enjoy online gaming, even with Mutable Realms and Wish not being available anymore.

We also wish the best luck to our competitors, and hope that they will not suffer the same fate as us.

Best regards,
Your Mutable Realms Team

The worst part of it is, they made it this far. Unfortunately for Mutable Realms, their game sucked. It was beautiful, world design was great, monsters looked really cool... but it was more boring than watching paint dry. I think that this is a growing trend in MMOs today. They stick to the same basic gameplay as the first generation of MMO's and think it works. But the hot word for the day is level treadmill. Getting stuck killing goats for hours is not my idea of fun, I wouldn't do that even if it were free. But they expect you to pay to do this. What's worse is that 5 million of you gamers do just that.

More and more MMO's will be shut down, and more will die before they are born. The MMO's that will survive are the 2nd gen MMOs that already made a name for themselves and any MMO's that come from big names, like WoW. It's not that they are actually better, they are just what everyone already knows and is willing to try. .

WoW *is* better because they sweated the details, fleshed out an interesting world, and have a robust quest system that basically leads you were you need to go. 90% of the MMORPGs out there are the 'pay meetooooo' kinds of cash cow wannabies.....they don't sweat the details, they are not innovative, and don't give a chit of the immersiveness of the world. It ain't easy creating a virtual world.....as most developers have now begun to learn.

If you consider WoW to be in depth because of a decent quest setup... try a couple older MMO's

A quest/grind system is boring, atleast for me.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: CVSiN

hero you didnt read what i wrote at all.. the game could look like UO 1996 and It would still be incredible...
I have been playing for almost a year now... I was an Alpha tester remeber...
im almost 60 and have started trying other classes and trying the Horde side...
still a blast to play even though Horde side does indeed suck mega balls...
Alliance world is so much better its not even close...
its everything about it... the quest system the world.. the skills the classes... the game is great....
much better game than anything I have played....
ive been doing MMOs since UO 1996 did EQ DOAC, AC, AC2, EnB, EVE, L2, SB, beta for Matrix... Beta for EQ2, final EQ2 for less than 2 weeks... alpha for WoW and now retail WoW...
WoW has what I want from a game...Im tired of having to put my life on hold to grind to keep up with my guild...
In WoW i dont have to... its a fun game not a grind hiding a crappy game

I read what you wrote, but didn't find an answer to my question.

Even an exceptionally fun game will get boring after a while. MMOs circumvent this by giving you a reason to play even when the game is no longer fun. In EQ clone games like WoW, it's the treeadmill. Level up the class, try another class, try all classes, finally quit the game. What made UO so great was that it didn't rely on a treadmill. UO, once it ceased to be fun, became a microcosm of life. It was having your gaming experience constantly altered by the inconstant moods and desires of your fellow players who could make a certain plot of land terrifyingly dangerous or a center for amicable trading. You advanced your characters skills and holdings to secure your own interests, which, depending on the play, could be many or few.

I can appreciate that WoW is casual game friendly.......for now. DAoC was for a while too before ToA. They're all usually easy in the beginning....but all EQ-based treadmill MMOs need to extend the carrot when gamers get too close.

So when you're talking about an MMO, using the term "fun" is laughable. You'll spend a ton of time in the game and the graphics and combat and environment WILL get repetitive. No MMO can compete with a SRPG for "fun" because single player games are crafted with much better stories and characters and graphics. That's why I find your pervent replies so strange and continue to seek clarification.

No thats not what made UO so great.. what made UO so great is we never had to leave our houses to reach GM in any skill... it could be 100% macroed to 7X GM while I was at work...
then come home and take my entire guild to steal houses... PK carebears and other PKs.. loot peoples houses generally ruin peoples online lives while being a total outlaw and never having to go anywhere to level up..
this is what made UO fun for us.. it had nothing to do with the game itself....
mainly the bugs and loopholes the game left open for 2 years...

WoW is not a treadmill at all.. its easy its fun.... and the end game is PVP and raiding for treasure which is both very fun...
high level raids... hero levels.. and PVP battlegrounds/rewards and the amazing quest system keep me coming back...

BTW this game is 500% better in its present state than any Single player RPG Ive ever played...
I can kill baldurs gate or Icewind or KOTOR in 1 week playign time....
with WoW i can solo play almost to L60 it takes about 15-30 days played depending on how fast you are....
and thats the tip of the iceberg...
after that its raid with your guild... PK raid.. defend your towns and players from opposing PKs.. and wait for Hero levels and battlegrounds to be ready....

way better game any ANY single player game I have ever played and better than every single MMO so far... except the early PK exploit days of UO which was just fun to screw with people....

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
The MMO genre is benig Ashlee-Simpson-ized. Look at all the goobers here who are all geeked out about WoW simple because it has the names Warcraft and Blizzard attached to it. Nevermind that they could have been playing the EXACT same game three years ago when it was called Dark Age Of Camelot.

Since every game coming out is basically the exact same post-EQ crap, what you need to distinguish yourself is a big time name.....like Simpson. That's why you'll see all the games like Wish and Dark and Light and Darkfall Online probably close up shop and make way for EQ with the name "Matrix" attached to it.

The tragedy here, of course, is that nobody ever attempted a UO clone. They were distinctly different even though both were MMOs. Each represented a mentality. UO was freedom, self-governance, depth, variety, and community. EQ was level up, get the pat on the head and do it again. EQ, thanks to the Pavlovian response of the average gamer, garnered more subscibers faster and held them longer. UO was unquestionable a deeper game, but the sheer amount of creativity and artistry that went into UO just would never be invested in a game again........not when you can slap together a treadmill give it the Warcraft name and call it an MMO.

Hero that is the biggest pile of sh1t I have ever read here.. including the skyywalker66 threads.. you couldnt speak more outa your ass if you freaking tried...

WoW is not even close to the pile of sh1t that DOAC is or was.. totally differnt game totally different design...
WoW is popular becasue the game is amazing..and fun.. and the world is so detailed and incredible its fun to live there....

DAOC while I played it to after atlantis with 4 L50 chars and RR6 on every toon I played on... was boring but there was nothing else worth playing at the time... I had already "beat" EQ1 after playing it for 5 years * L55-65 toons all with TOV armour and sleepers tomb weps...
it got boring...

EQ1 was ok... it held my attention mainly becasue my guild was there.... if they had not been I wouldnt have played long at all...

WoW I will be playing guild or not for a very long time...
its an Adults MMO.. I can work a full week at work... and still manage to stay respectable level.. I can roll other toons and play and quest with friends and not worry about losing time on my main...

best MMO ever.. they remebered to make the game FUN first... and a lesser grind for Adults second...
brilliant idea... and the rest system is a brainstorm...

If you like to punish yourself and have absolutly 0 life then fine play EQ or EQ2.. but if your a 34+ year old adult with a job family and want to be able to go out and have fun.. yet still remain competitive.. then play WoW....

as for Matrix Online... biggest pile of crap since AC2.... been a founding beta member since the beta opened... tried and tried again every single build.... its still a unfun scripted PIle of crap...
the combat in that game is laughable...
the world is shalllow and empty and generally a bad engine....
bad bad game steer way clear of it..

What makes WoW fun? All you've said is that the world is so detailed. Yeah, that excitement will last another month tops, then what?.

And if you had 4 L50 chars with RR6 on DAOC then you played that game A LOT....a lot a lot, so I'm confused as to why you could spent an obscene amount of time playing DAoC when it was a "pile of sh1t".

Matrix Online is probably crap, I don't know. But it will be successful because it has a big name. That's my point.

I played DOAC for that long casue it was the only PK game there was... not to mention during that point in time I was on a 7 month bedrest....
so lots of time to do nothing but play... doesnt make it a good game.. just makes a good timekiller...

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: HadsusYou musta only tried the horde.....they are ugly and their lands are ugly (IMO, of course). The story is quite different with Alliance where their lands are very cool and inviting. IIRC, their are many more players playing Alliance than Horde.

Regarding quests, yes there are alot of kill quests but also alot of others that is combined kill, gather resources, see X, Y or Z. This is a MMORPG after all and what you spend most of your time doing is killing (unless your a crafter), of course. What else would you expect. Reading your response it is pretty clear you know squat about WoW questing. You've done just one quest by your own admission. Yeah, sure, you're an expert allright, LOL. You hate WoW and your just gonna slam it however you can.

My friend plays it all the time, even installed it on my computer so he can play when he comes over. I watch him play all the time. Too boring for me to bother with, so yes I've only personally done one quest. But I've seen him do quests, and I hear him complain about stuff in the game all the time. Only reason he plays it is because he needed something new after play DAoC for so long. Truth is, DAoC was better. He'll get bored with WoW soon enough when he hits max level. Game has nothing over any other. And the graphics are the suck. There is nothing you can call detailed in that game.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
The MMO genre is benig Ashlee-Simpson-ized. Look at all the goobers here who are all geeked out about WoW simple because it has the names Warcraft and Blizzard attached to it. Nevermind that they could have been playing the EXACT same game three years ago when it was called Dark Age Of Camelot.

Since every game coming out is basically the exact same post-EQ crap, what you need to distinguish yourself is a big time name.....like Simpson. That's why you'll see all the games like Wish and Dark and Light and Darkfall Online probably close up shop and make way for EQ with the name "Matrix" attached to it.

The tragedy here, of course, is that nobody ever attempted a UO clone. They were distinctly different even though both were MMOs. Each represented a mentality. UO was freedom, self-governance, depth, variety, and community. EQ was level up, get the pat on the head and do it again. EQ, thanks to the Pavlovian response of the average gamer, garnered more subscibers faster and held them longer. UO was unquestionable a deeper game, but the sheer amount of creativity and artistry that went into UO just would never be invested in a game again........not when you can slap together a treadmill give it the Warcraft name and call it an MMO.

WoW is the exact same game DAoC was, and everyone playing WoW will realize this after a couple months. Give them time to reach max level and find nothing left to do.

However, the only reason big names make it is because they have fans already. The Matrix Online isn't going to be huge. At PAX, a lot of people I talked to said they either didn't like the movies or didn't even see them. So MXO didn't excite them much, plus Lith didn't really show it off very well. It's nothing like EQ or anything else, it's truly unique in every method.

Wish supposedly was cloning UO, according to people in beta with me. I never played UO, never liked the ultima series. But a lot of them said it was a lot like UO, just much better looking. But then, that didn't keep them playing. Everyone got bored with Wish pretty fast.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: malak

The only truly unique MMO I've ever played was EVE, which happens to also be one of the most beautiful games I ever played as well. Even Gamespy gave it an award one year for the best looking game of the year. Not best looking MMO, best looking game period. But unfortunately a space sim isn't as popular as a medieval RPG, so it's not going to attract everyone.

Unfortunately some of the uniqueness of EVE involved such things as shooting a floating rock with a laser for several hours at a time. Not that you actually had to, you know, aim or anything, it locked on and proceeded to shoot the rock for you while you stared at it. Occasionally you got fly back to a base because your cargo hold was full, which involved staring happily at the shiny hyperspace screen for 10-20 minutes - not that you needed to steer or anything, the autopilot took care of that for you.

On the plus side your character would happily 'level up' for you while you were asleep or at work, so you could be uber without actually having to play it.

Also a plus, if you spent weeks saving up to get a big heavily armed ship, you could have someone come and PK you, destroying it, and leaving you back where you started - assuming you paid for insurance otherwise you character dies and you lose a big chunk off all your skills.

There were a lot of reasons EVE was not popular which have nothing to do with the relative popularity of space sims vs medieval RPGs.

 

[Looney]

The worst part of it is, they made it this far. Unfortunately for Mutable Realms, their game sucked. It was beautiful, world design was great, monsters looked really cool... but it was more boring than watching paint dry. I think that this is a growing trend in MMOs today. They stick to the same basic gameplay as the first generation of MMO's and think it works. But the hot word for the day is level treadmill. Getting stuck killing goats for hours is not my idea of fun, I wouldn't do that even if it were free. But they expect you to pay to do this. What's worse is that 5 million of you gamers do just that.

Well hell, if you reduce games to this simplicity, all games sound dumb. Who wants to go around eating yellow balls in a maze and be chased by ghost? How much fun can arranging blocks as they fall down? I find it downright mind numbing to shoot other players on the same maps over and over again with the same damn weapons, but others like it. And what about those that drive cars around the same laps over and over again?

These games are ROLEPLAYING GAMES. The abilities of your character isn't dependent on your skills and experience you may have in real life, but in the development of your character. And character development, like traditional RPGs, is through experience, which is often through combat. What's the point in playing these games, if you can max your lvl in a week like you would in traditional games?

 

[Hadsus]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: HadsusYou musta only tried the horde.....they are ugly and their lands are ugly (IMO, of course). The story is quite different with Alliance where their lands are very cool and inviting. IIRC, their are many more players playing Alliance than Horde.

Regarding quests, yes there are alot of kill quests but also alot of others that is combined kill, gather resources, see X, Y or Z. This is a MMORPG after all and what you spend most of your time doing is killing (unless your a crafter), of course. What else would you expect. Reading your response it is pretty clear you know squat about WoW questing. You've done just one quest by your own admission. Yeah, sure, you're an expert allright, LOL. You hate WoW and your just gonna slam it however you can.

My friend plays it all the time, even installed it on my computer so he can play when he comes over. I watch him play all the time. Too boring for me to bother with, so yes I've only personally done one quest. But I've seen him do quests, and I hear him complain about stuff in the game all the time. Only reason he plays it is because he needed something new after play DAoC for so long. Truth is, DAoC was better. He'll get bored with WoW soon enough when he hits max level. Game has nothing over any other. And the graphics are the suck. There is nothing you can call detailed in that game.

Yeah, terribly boring. Nearly one million characters (according to wowcensus.com) populating over 80 servers just bored stiff. And how many servers did DAoC have during its peak......count 'em on both hands. You watching your friend play makes you a very convincing critic of the game.....and his installation of the account on your rig makes you both ripe for banning.

Your exposure wouldn't even quality as a 'preview' or 'initial impressions' in any kind of critique anyone would care about. Zero credibility. It's just pathetically funny.

 

[MrBond]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: TheAudit
WoW has been the only MMO I've stuck with since UO.
I can't imagine that there will ever be a sense of community like there was in UO again.

Remove levels, remove soulbound bs, relax the skill system, lessen the importance of equipment drastically, allow unrestricted pvp all the time and fully lootable player corpses, increase world size compared with population and it will happen.

Soulbinding needs to be in place - otherwise the economy would be trashed. With Thottbot, its not that hard to find where something drops if you want it for yourself.

Fully lootable corpses and unrestricted PVP would probably make me stop playing. I work a regular job, I'm tired when I come home and have other things to do besides play a game all night so I can get my character to level 60. I like the fact that even though I'm level 26, if I'm running through a level 20-30 contested zone to pick up something (like I was last night with the expert cookbook), I'm not going to lose gear because some level 60 decided to be an asshole and lie in wait to gank me. It's annoying, but if they could loot everything on my corpse, I'd be out of equipment by now. I don't mind PVP, hense why I play on a PVP server. Ganking turns off the casual player and WoW is more geared towards the casual player.

The world size thing isn't really a factor when you get out of the lower level zones. They fixed most of the problems by increasing the spawn rate for stuff that's quest related. Maybe the high level zones are packed now, but where I've been lately, it's not too bad.