Wiser to "invest" in G3258 (and OC) or G4400 for budget builds?

[VirtualLarry]

You know, your basic desktop / web browser builds. Maybe a Facebook game or two.

I've recently identified an H81 mobo that's available currently at Newegg for under $45 that will overclock a G3258 CPU to around 4.0-4.2Ghz.

Likewise, there's a similar Biostar H110 DDR3L mobo available for a similar price, although it can't overclock the CPU.

Both boards have HDMI and VGA.

I know that even the lower-end Skylake G4400 with HD 510, probably has a more powerful iGPU than that of a G3258. Gen9 to be exact.

For watching web videos, does the Gen9 GPU matter all that much?

Edit: I owe you sort of an apology Arachnotronic, I see I forgot to mention in the OP that this was for future builds for (hopefully) paying clients, not myself.

 

[whm1974]

Why not go with the G4500 instead? It's only $10 more then the G4400.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1UH3Z96314

Personally I rather go with the i3-6100 and a B150 based motherboard for a budget build, for longevity if nothing else.

 

[NTMBK]

Don't screw around with overclocking for a Facebook box. It doesn't need the extra 5%, and you're just causing more long term headaches for a bit of short term entertainment.

 

[Arachnotronic]

You know, your basic desktop / web browser builds. Maybe a Facebook game or two.

I've recently identified an H81 mobo that's available currently at Newegg for under $45 that will overclock a G3258 CPU to around 4.0-4.2Ghz.

Likewise, there's a similar Biostar H110 DDR3L mobo available for a similar price, although it can't overclock the CPU.

Both boards have HDMI and VGA.

I know that even the lower-end Skylake G4400 with HD 510, probably has a more powerful iGPU than that of a G3258. Gen9 to be exact.

For watching web videos, does the Gen9 GPU matter all that much?

Don't buy Haswell, Skylake is the way to go today.

 

[cbn]

Why not go with the G4500 instead? It's only $10 more then the G4400.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1UH3Z96314

Personally I rather go with the i3-6100 and a B150 based motherboard for a budget build, for longevity if nothing else.

The price on those have really dropped ($69.99).

I remember when they were something like $89.99.

 

[nerp]

i3-6100/h160 agreed is the way to go. G4400 or 4500 are OK for a basic budget box. Agree OCing a Facebook machine is not worth it.

 

[IEC]

I have both and they make perfectly adequate budget boxes when paired with an SSD.

No point getting a Haswell chip these days when you can get a cheap Skylake dual-core for around the same price or less, with the added chipset features.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Don't screw around with overclocking for a Facebook box. It doesn't need the extra 5%, and you're just causing more long term headaches for a bit of short term entertainment.

Preach it.

 

[escrow4]

i5 6500 minimum (currently anyway), that way you can run the box until it expires. An i3 is a meh compromise. You should always spec a desktop to last.

 

[whm1974]

i5 6500 minimum (currently anyway), that way you can run the box until it expires. An i3 is a meh compromise. You should always spec a desktop to last.

I can agree with that along with having 16 GB of memory and a SSD as well.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I can agree with that along with having 16 GB of memory and a SSD as well.

I guess... but the title of this thread is about "budget" builds, and a Core i5 costs as much as half the build.
I do agree with the 16GB of RAM and the SSD, even for a budget build. With those, for most applications, you don't actually need as beefy a CPU.

(Notable exceptions are video editing, rendering, or "serious" gaming.)

 

[escrow4]

I guess... but the title of this thread is about "budget" builds, and a Core i5 costs as much as half the build.
I do agree with the 16GB of RAM and the SSD, even for a budget build. With those, for most applications, you don't actually need as beefy a CPU.

(Notable exceptions are video editing, rendering, or "serious" gaming.)

Don't budget a desktop. You want budget get a tablet. The Internet (TM) now is bloated and fat even with flash in its death throes and even with an ad-blocker. You need grunt and cycles to push it along, and when you add in all the other crap a typical user will hammer the install button, an i5 is now mandatory. An i5 will also have a passable iGPU with GPU decoding and all the other bits added in as opposed to a crippled (less extensions, weaker iGPU) of an i3 or lower. And as I said, you run a desktop until it don't run no more. An extra $100 or $200 over a few years is irrelevant.

 

[VirtualLarry]

And as I said, you run a desktop until it don't run no more. An extra $100 or $200 over a few years is irrelevant.

So you believe in the future-proofing "myth". I'm more of the "upgrade early, upgrade often, but for cheap" persuasion.

If I thought like you thought, I'd still be running a Core2Quad and "grunt decoding" my way through web videos.

Rather, I have a higher IPC dual-core, and a modern video card. If I weren't gaming at all, the modern iGPU would suffice for web videos. No need for "grunt", when you have modern CPU w/iGPU hardware-decoding finesse.

Edit: Heck, my J1900 Atom Celeron boxes don't have much CPU grunt, but they play back 1080P YouTube just fine (at least, for today).

 

[NTMBK]

So you believe in the future-proofing "myth". I'm more of the "upgrade early, upgrade often, but for cheap" persuasion.

If I thought like you thought, I'd still be running a Core2Quad and "grunt decoding" my way through web videos.

Rather, I have a higher IPC dual-core, and a modern video card. If I weren't gaming at all, the modern iGPU would suffice for web videos. No need for "grunt", when you have modern CPU w/iGPU hardware-decoding finesse.

Edit: Heck, my J1900 Atom Celeron boxes don't have much CPU grunt, but they play back 1080P YouTube just fine (at least, for today).

If you didn't buy 3 junk PCs a week, you could be using a 6700k by now.

 

[Arachnotronic]

If you didn't buy 3 junk PCs a week, you could be using a 6700k by now.

6950X, and I'm not even joking.

 

[Arachnotronic]

i5 6500 minimum (currently anyway), that way you can run the box until it expires. An i3 is a meh compromise. You should always spec a desktop to last.

One of my work PCs has an i3 6320 and it is ridiculously fast for what I do with it. i3s are great processors

 

[dave_the_nerd]

So you believe in the future-proofing "myth". I'm more of the "upgrade early, upgrade often, but for cheap" persuasion.

If I thought like you thought, I'd still be running a Core2Quad and "grunt decoding" my way through web videos.

Nobody's suggesting you keep a 10 year old rig. But none of the systems you've built can keep up with a 4-year-old i5. It's pretty clear you've been pissing money away.

"Future-proofing is a myth" in the sense that you can't really build a system for a undefined future workload. Mostly this means GPUs and hardware support for this or that API or video codec. (Although h.264 has been around for over a decade, and h.265 is probably going to last just as long.) It also means that selling somebody a J1900 six months before they find their calling as a video editor is... bad.

But if you CAN make an educated guess on the workload, then you can pretty easily build a system that will laugh in the face of client workloads for the next 5 years or so, and that's pretty much always been the case.

edit: Personally, I've always preferred the "glass cannon" approach to system builds. All the CPU I can afford, and the cheapest possible box and platform to put it in. If somebody held a gun to my head and said, "make me a budget build" they'd wind up with something like this.

 

[whm1974]

One of my work PCs has an i3 6320 and it is ridiculously fast for what I do with it. i3s are great processors

Yep, an i3-6100 with 8 GB of ram and an SDD will be fine for the use cases that most people use their computers for.

 

[escrow4]

So you believe in the future-proofing "myth". I'm more of the "upgrade early, upgrade often, but for cheap" persuasion.

If I thought like you thought, I'd still be running a Core2Quad and "grunt decoding" my way through web videos.

Rather, I have a higher IPC dual-core, and a modern video card. If I weren't gaming at all, the modern iGPU would suffice for web videos. No need for "grunt", when you have modern CPU w/iGPU hardware-decoding finesse.

Edit: Heck, my J1900 Atom Celeron boxes don't have much CPU grunt, but they play back 1080P YouTube just fine (at least, for today).

Upgrading is a waste of money. Buy what you need + a reserve. That will last as opposed to buying cheap junk every week. As someone has mentioned you could have a single 6700K in a quality mobo by now if you stopped buying crap.

 

[whm1974]

Upgrading is a waste of money. Buy what you need + a reserve. That will last as opposed to buying cheap junk every week. As someone has mentioned you could have a single 6700K in a quality mobo by now if you stopped buying crap.

I have to agree with you about this. CPUs last a lot longer then they used to, so it makes sense now days to invest in the best CPU you can afford.

 

[VirtualLarry]

so it makes sense now days to invest in the best CPU you can afford.

I deal with people that have to split an $85 bill for service (including an SSD and a wireless keyboard) over two months, because they simply can't afford things.

If I stopped building $200-300-400 boxes, and "only" sold i5/i7 boxes, for $800-1000, these people would be saving up for five years just to afford the PC.

I don't think any of you 1%'ers understand TRULY "budget" builds. Ones that are affordable, after six months of savings, rather than years, yet perform fairly well (but won't be top-end gamer boxes or video editors), that can still be upgraded to something better down the line.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I deal with people that have to split an $85 bill for service (including an SSD and a wireless keyboard) over two months, because they simply can't afford things.

If I stopped building $200-300-400 boxes, and "only" sold i5/i7 boxes, for $800-1000, these people would be saving up for five years just to afford the PC.

I don't think any of you 1%'ers understand TRULY "budget" builds. Ones that are affordable, after six months of savings, rather than years, yet perform fairly well (but won't be top-end gamer boxes or video editors), that can still be upgraded to something better down the line.

Did you completely miss the $360 i5 build in my last post?

If they're on a budget that restricted, they should be buying refurb'd prebuilts anyway, not cobbled together Atom-powered AIOs or overclocked WTFs.

 

[daxzy]

Did you completely miss the $360 i5 build in my last post?

If they're on a budget that restricted, they should be buying refurb'd prebuilts anyway, not cobbled together Atom-powered AIOs or overclocked WTFs.

Dave, you missed a potential OS license as a cost. However, I agree with your sentiment that people should be staying away from new low-end hardware and opt for a refurb system or a midrange from 1-2 generations behind. It's quite competitive in the budget market where margins are razor slim. I definitely don't think it's worth the business time to build it (although it would be for fun projects are charities).

Larry, I highly doubt most of the people posting (and not me for sure) are 1%'s. There is a "sweet" spot where you're getting maximum value per dollar. While low-quality maybe cheaper, the reality is that getting low mid-range will net you a lot longer lifespan and bring the Total Cost of Ownership down.

For instance at the Dell Outlet, they frequently run 20-35% coupons (prices below are without coupons). eBay the appropriate memory and a used 256GB SSD on eBay and you have pretty fast, modern, system.

Inspiron 3250 (3650 series has a 6pin PCI-E for budget video cards) - $399 (I've seen these as low as $250 with coupons)

• Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i3-6100 Processor (Dual Core, 3.7GHz, 3M Cache, 65W)
• Windows 10 Home 64bit English
• 1 TB 3.5 Inch SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
• 4 GB (1x4GB) 1600MHz DDR3L Memory

Alienware Alpha (Note: Not really upgradeable) - $319 (I've seen these as low as $250 with coupons)

• Processor: Intel Core 4th Generation i3-4170 Processor (3MB Cache, up to 3.7 GHz)
• Windows 10 Home 64bit English
• 500 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
• 4GB DDR3L at 1600MHz
• NVIDIA GeForce GTX GPU 2GB GDDR5

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Dave, you missed a potential OS license as a cost.

People pay for Windows? Blargh.

 

[imported_falacy]

I deal with people that have to split an $85 bill for service (including an SSD and a wireless keyboard) over two months, because they simply can't afford things.

If I stopped building $200-300-400 boxes, and "only" sold i5/i7 boxes, for $800-1000, these people would be saving up for five years just to afford the PC.

I don't think any of you 1%'ers understand TRULY "budget" builds. Ones that are affordable, after six months of savings, rather than years, yet perform fairly well (but won't be top-end gamer boxes or video editors), that can still be upgraded to something better down the line.

I agree with you 100% here.

However, I would never sell someone a PC based on its over-clocked performance. If they buy a PC and later ask me to help them over-clock it, sure no problem, but I would never sell them an over-clocked PC or even talk about over-clocking when selling them a PC, because I am not a shady jerk. That's just me though, all moral and junk.