Wiser choice - T-bred B 2100+ or Barton 2500+?

[Naruto]

I know this has been asked several times, but i still haven't found the solid or concrete reasons. Of course i'm planning to overclock it, but is paying more than double for the barton worth it?

 

[fhetw]

right now the better choice for o/c would be a 2100+ or even a 1700+ over the 2500+barton.
just make sure you get a tbredB
for a 2100+ aiuhb most oc range from 2.4-2.6 with a good setup
for a 1700+ jiuhb dlt3c most oc range from 2.3-2.5 with a good setup
the highest 2500 ive seen on air is 2.6 while the highest 2100+ on air ive seen is 2.8, 1700 2.7
most 2500+ go anywhere from 2-2.4

tbreds are also much more price efficient. with the above 2100+ ~$100 and the above 1700+ ~$70 compared to $170 for the barton
bartons havent really been extensively tested yet of o/c performance and personally id wait for better stats on the bartons and lower prices before buying one.
for the price on the 2500+ you could buy a 2.4A with c1 stepping and get ~3.2 or higher out of it with money left over.

do some research on your own and decide what is best for what you plan on doing with your comp.

 

[chizow]

Yep, fhetw hit it pretty much on the head. It comes down to max OC headroom/clockspeed vs. benefits of 256kb L2 cache. At equal clockspeeds, the extra L2 cache gives you 5-10% performance increase in certain apps (some games and office apps). From what I've seen though, the 2500+ Barton doesn't OC as well as the 2100+ T-bred Bs, so the extra MHz would be more beneficial over the extra L2 in almost every instance (look at 2800+ vs. 3000+ reviews). If the 2500+ Barton could OC to ~2.5GHz, that would be a different story, as that might justify the 2x price tag.

Chiz

 

[Naruto]

I remember a while ago, most t-bred B 1700+ usually hit between 1.9 to 2.0 ghz. Has this changed. If the new 1700+ processors are better clockers, would u expect to use a hi voltage of 1.8 or higher to get it above 2.2ghz? Currently, i think it is more reasonable to get a 2100+ that can hit 2.3 to 2.4 on 1.7 - 1.75 volts than getting a 1700+ that can hit 2.2 - 2.3 @ 1.8 volts or higher (even though the 2100+ is nearly double).

 

[woodie1]

Another vote for the 2100+. I just had to make the same decision. When looking at the 2500 Barton I couldn't see any benefit over the 2100 that would justify the cost.

 

[ChampionAtTufshop]

Originally posted by: Naruto
I remember a while ago, most t-bred B 1700+ usually hit between 1.9 to 2.0 ghz. Has this changed. If the new 1700+ processors are better clockers, would u expect to use a hi voltage of 1.8 or higher to get it above 2.2ghz? Currently, i think it is more reasonable to get a 2100+ that can hit 2.3 to 2.4 on 1.7 - 1.75 volts than getting a 1700+ that can hit 2.2 - 2.3 @ 1.8 volts or higher (even though the 2100+ is nearly double).

most likely a high voltage (1.85ish or higher) which means early cpu death (very early from accounts that ive seen)

i say go for 2100+
1700+ is good for ~2ghz
..maybe 2.1 if your lukcy

2100+ good for about ~2.3-2.4 usually
higher if you are lukcy


but not always will you hit that...its mostly a crapshoot (but with odds in your favor now a days with newer tbred b)
unless you get a used one that someone else has pretested to a certain speed (but it will not necessarily hit that speed in your setup cuz setups/temps vary)

 

[Soulkeeper]

i say get the barton if you got the money to blow
the extra cache is like another 200 or 300mhz
they both oc about the same

basically it's a matter of what you can afford

 

[Jmman]

I saw a guy go through this same situation a couple of weeks ago. He went for the Barton and was very dissappointed. He ended up selling the Barton and getting a 2100 B. The performance was almost identical, with the Barton costing twice as much.......

 

[ChampionAtTufshop]

Originally posted by: Jmman
I saw a guy go through this same situation a couple of weeks ago. He went for the Barton and was very dissappointed. He ended up selling the Barton and getting a 2100 B. The performance was almost identical, with the Barton costing twice as much.......

lol i was debating selling my tbred b 2100+ and going for barton
until i saw a fwe benchmarks/oc results
...needless to say, im good with my stuff

 

[bgeh]

i'd get the T-Bred B 2100+

 

[Rio Rebel]

I just bought a 2500 (Barton) yesterday, and I can't believe how well it overclocks. I don't like to overclock to the extreme - I usually don't like to raise the voltage at all. So with the Volcano9, standard paste that came in the box, no voltage increases, and a case with less than perfect airflow, I just pushed it past 2.0 ghz last night and it hasn't missed a beat. I wonder just how much this baby would overclock if I were serious about it.

I know that's not jaw-dropping numbers compared to some of what you've heard, but the key here is that I'm not really even trying, and I haven't found the ceiling yet.


Update: make that 2.08 (11.5 x 180fsb). This is now slightly faster than a 2800+ at stock! (same processor speed, faster FSB). MAN, it almost makes me want to buy a real cooling solution and see what it can do.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Okay, last update: I did finally find the limits with my standard cooling and no voltage increases. It is somewhere between 2.1 and 2.2 ghz. I can get it around 2.2 to boot up fine, but Prime95 brings it down in short order.

Right now, it's at 2.1ghz, 200fsb x 10.5, and ran Prime95 all night with no problems. I think I'll leave it here, and not worry about squeezing every last drop of performance at the expense of "stability peace of mind"

 

[LED]

I have a few of both and am @ the assumption that it's a question of $'s as my 2500 is floating @ 2.2-2.3 GHz (1.8v's)and agree with with Rio on the OC ablility's. I think this is the average ceiling without extreme OC ing and it's limit to FSB is 185-188 without modding ... Remember that 2.3GHz (185x12.5) on the Barton is worth over a T-Bred running 3200XP (2.5GHz)do to it's extra cache.
So it come's down to $'s as the 2100 can be had for 1/2 the cost

 

[Rio Rebel]

Interesting - LED's chip goes higher in clock speed, but mine can handle the higher FSB. I am at 200/400 with no problem whatsoever.

Might be the memory.

 

[LED]

Indeed Rio as the Mem I'm using the HyperX Kingston which handles 200+FSB on the T-Breds but only high 180's (fastest settings) on the Bartons...I'm going to swap out to some Winbond chips after I relax abit on these and see what happens...

 

[Schwan]

So can either of you guys update your findings on the barton's ability?

I've been thinking of picking one up.

Thanks.

 

[EdipisReks]

i think that the 1700+ 1.5v chips are the best bargain with socket a right now.

 

[Pauly]

And so am I thinking of getting one
TIA

 

[cowdog]

I've been playing with the following:

3 processors:
TbredB 2100+ 0302
TbredB 2100+ 0248
Barton 2500+ 0307

2 mobo/memory combos:
Epox 8RDA+ rev. 1.1 w/ 512 mb Corsair XMS PC3200 VDD = 1.6v
Abit NF7-S rev. 2 w/ 1024 mb Corsair XMS PC3200LL TwinX vdd = 1.7v
(both have SLK-800 with YS-Tech variable speed fans)

So far the best performer is pretty much a tie between the 0248 2100+ (12x197) and the Barton 2500+ (11x200). The 0302 2100+ is more happy in the 11x195 range. I am not exhaustively testing these or trying to get anything near an objective experiment. These very stable OC'd results are consistent between the 2 mobos (have played with all 3 in each setup). I can get quite a bit higher fsb and somewhat higher total mhz for all 3 cpus, but those eventually error out in Prime95. Overall I would say that based on my experience so far, the 2100+ can be the better deal, but it seems to me that it depends somewhat on luck of the draw. Based on some of the 1700+ OC results, that sounds like it can be an even better deal. I do wonder if the Barton will show some advantage in specific situations due to larger cache. I'll keep playing. I am not ready to do the vdd mod on the 8RDA+, but the pencil mod on the NF7-S is definately in my future.

Aside: I am a little surprised that I didn't see a differnce between the 8RDA+ and the NF7-S rev 2.

 

[Schwan]

Cowdog, can you run the barton at 200 fsb on the epox board?

 

[cowdog]

Originally posted by: Schwan
Cowdog, can you run the barton at 200 fsb on the epox board?

Yes. Barton 2500+ @ 11 x 200mhz sync 5-2-2-2 running on 8rda+ 1.1 @ stock VDD right now. Can get higher fsb, but Prime95 errors out fairly quickly. Still playing around with this setup. Plugged in a 9700 pro, and that was giving me some headaches, but I think I have that under control and can get back at playing with this cpu/mobo combo. Was running 12.5 x 190 earlier this morning, but needed 1.8 vcore to have modest stability.

 

[LouPoir]

I have an XP2100 and had a Barton 2500.

Go with the XP2100 if your going to overclock - XP2100+ B 0302 . Mine does 2503mhz at 1.75vCore. Beats the pants off the Barton 2500 that struggled to get to 2250mhz.

IMHO.

Lou