Wireless solution for ~20 people at once

[a123456]

It's a hotel where they haven't actually finalized the Internet connection yet, but it's looking like multiple 25 meg lines coming in.

The main bottleneck will be getting Internet to the conference rooms and the nearby lobby. The meetings can have up to 20 people in a room. Ideally, there's going to be wired access also but I'm not in the industry and I don't know how feasible it is to tell 20 business people to all hook up to some type of switch using cat5 cables.

They're looking at wireless solutions, which is needed for the lobby anyway. So, what type of router/access point can handle this type of traffic? I'm assuming they might be doing some random VPN stuff and web browsing/email but hopefully no crazy torrents, etc. Semi-decent speed and good reliability are relatively important or else they'll just take their meetings elsewhere.

I was looking at some of the random Dlink stuff (like the DAP-2553/2590) but some reviews mentioned the frequent dropping of connections. The Cisco Aironet stuff is probably behind my ability to configure. HP seemed to have some offerings but I'm not sure if that's overkill or even which HP model to use.

Budget is slightly variable but cost has to be justified basically. So if a device that costs $100 can do it, great. If it needs to be $300, that's probably doable. $500 might be okay but really needs a good explanation about why it's necessary over cheaper alternatives.

The rest of the normal rooms and common areas can be slower so I was thinking just spacing out regular routers throughout the rest of the facility.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It's a hotel where they haven't actually finalized the Internet connection yet, but it's looking like multiple 25 meg lines coming in.

The main bottleneck will be getting Internet to the conference rooms and the nearby lobby. The meetings can have up to 20 people in a room. Ideally, there's going to be wired access also but I'm not in the industry and I don't know how feasible it is to tell 20 business people to all hook up to some type of switch using cat5 cables.

Honestly, it is probably easier drop a switch or two under the tables, connect 20+ ethernet cables, and then tape the cables to the top of the table at each seat than worry about connecting each wirelessly. I've managed multiple huge events (several national conventions with thousands of users) and that's the approach we took in most conference rooms. On the rare occasion where we did employ wireless APs, it was with a limited number of people (we just used Linksys APs of some variety).

They're looking at wireless solutions, which is needed for the lobby anyway. So, what type of router/access point can handle this type of traffic? I'm assuming they might be doing some random VPN stuff and web browsing/email but hopefully no crazy torrents, etc. Semi-decent speed and good reliability are relatively important or else they'll just take their meetings elsewhere.

You might see how much it will cost for the hotel to provide that wireless connectivity. From my experience, consumer devices (especially with outbound VPN connections) will start having issues with dropped connections when you start getting up in the number of connections.

 

[Gillbot]

You can also use multiple wireless access points named to each conference room name. That way if they are in room 1 and "Room1Wireless" pops up they'll likely use it, same for "LobbyWireless", etc. Aside from that you can branch out each floor as well. The multiple access points will help distribute the bandwidth and gives users multiple connection points. If one becomes loaded and slow, they can always connect to another if they have the signal.

 

[JackMDS]

The priciple is, multiple Access Point in center locations connected with wires to a main Router.

SSIDs the same and different channels.

Using a Wireless Router as a switch with an Access Point - http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html


However judging from your description, a Consultant that knows this type of work should be hired.

 

[Emulex]

use a decent router and run cat 5 to AP's (WZR-HP300GN is an awesome super high power AP). if you are cheap you probably won't be able to afford a complex controller that most places use.

check out meraki mesh network too.

 

[a123456]

Honestly, it is probably easier drop a switch or two under the tables, connect 20+ ethernet cables, and then tape the cables to the top of the table at each seat than worry about connecting each wirelessly. I've managed multiple huge events (several national conventions with thousands of users) and that's the approach we took in most conference rooms. On the rare occasion where we did employ wireless APs, it was with a limited number of people (we just used Linksys APs of some variety).



You might see how much it will cost for the hotel to provide that wireless connectivity. From my experience, consumer devices (especially with outbound VPN connections) will start having issues with dropped connections when you start getting up in the number of connections.

Yeah, after thinking about it some more and talking with them, the best bet is probably to wire the conference rooms with ethernet.

1. For the "main" router with the main WAN coming in, are there any suggestions? I assume there will be a ton of traffic going through it. Will a normal random router suffice or does it need to be more business class? Any in particular that can handle the traffic? Dual WAN that will fail over automatically is one of the features that's desired since they have a backup DSL line so might as well use it.

use a decent router and run cat 5 to AP's (WZR-HP300GN is an awesome super high power AP). if you are cheap you probably won't be able to afford a complex controller that most places use.

2. WZR-HP-G300NH is the closet model I could find. Is this what you mean on the AP recommendation?

3. For the wired switches to wire up a conference room, is it okay to just use cheap 8 port switches (like those green trendnet ones) and chain them or is it necessary to spend the money on a giant 24 port switch or similar?

This is a total shoestring operation since the hotel isn't doing that well but needs the Internet to meet franchise standards so spending the least possible is the general goal while still giving a semi-decent Internet experience for the business people.

 

[Emulex]

WZR-HP-G300NH is the closet model I could find. Is this what you mean on the AP recommendation?

YES! 843mw output with 2dbi directionals.

3. For the wired switches to wire up a conference room, is it okay to just use cheap 8 port switches (like those green trendnet ones) and chain them or is it necessary to spend the money on a giant 24 port switch or similar?

well 24 port switch is $183 for hp procurve (basic model like 1910G-24) and cheap rosewill 8 ports go for $15 here and there.

keep in mind folks can kill these switches with a loop of ethernet (no STP) - so that could be bad.

my 2510G-48 ($1000) can auto-turn off bad ports (shorted), STP (looped ethernet). etc. otherwise you could have your network taken out by something stupid. hard call there man.

i know procurve makes a small switch that is POE so a master POE switch could shut it down if conditions were not right but POE is length limited technology.

 

[a123456]

WZR-HP-G300NH is the closet model I could find. Is this what you mean on the AP recommendation?

YES! 843mw output with 2dbi directionals.

3. For the wired switches to wire up a conference room, is it okay to just use cheap 8 port switches (like those green trendnet ones) and chain them or is it necessary to spend the money on a giant 24 port switch or similar?

well 24 port switch is $183 for hp procurve (basic model like 1910G-24) and cheap rosewill 8 ports go for $15 here and there.

keep in mind folks can kill these switches with a loop of ethernet (no STP) - so that could be bad.

my 2510G-48 ($1000) can auto-turn off bad ports (shorted), STP (looped ethernet). etc. otherwise you could have your network taken out by something stupid. hard call there man.

i know procurve makes a small switch that is POE so a master POE switch could shut it down if conditions were not right but POE is length limited technology.

For the cost difference, it seems okay to take the risk of using the cheap switches, especially since replacing one is no big deal. There's no need for PoE. I think there's tons of outlets for the laptops anyway.

What I was asking is if using 4 rosewill switches (or whatever cheap brand) instead of a 24 port switch like the HP will have much of a performance difference for 20 users? Or it's about the same either way with the Internet being the big limit?

 

[imagoon]

I am not sure why 20 users is 'hard.' Toss a small Aruba + controller / Cisco + controller in there and you can handle few hundred clients. They also include the 'access' walls if needed. Aruba can even handle the NAT / routing from WLAN <-> WAN for you. IE whatever 'modem' -> straight in to the controller.

This might be out of your price range from the sounds of it since your worried about $200 24 switches though.

 

[jlazzaro]

I am not sure why 20 users is 'hard.' Toss a small Aruba + controller / Cisco + controller in there and you can handle few hundred clients. They also include the 'access' walls if needed. Aruba can even handle the NAT / routing from WLAN <-> WAN for you. IE whatever 'modem' -> straight in to the controller.

This might be out of your price range from the sounds of it since your worried about $200 24 switches though.

lol a few hundred? it depends on the traffic type, but you want 15-20 client associations per AP, 25 max.

 

[drebo]

Check out Ubiquiti's unified wifi system. Can easily do captive portal, reporting, etc. Exactly what you want, and very, very inexpensive.

 

[imagoon]

lol a few hundred? it depends on the traffic type, but you want 15-20 client associations per AP, 25 max.

Exactly... WAPs + controller can handle hundreds of users.

 

[yuppiejr]

The priciple is, multiple Access Point in center locations connected with wires to a main Router.

SSIDs the same and different channels.

Using a Wireless Router as a switch with an Access Point - http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html


However judging from your description, a Consultant that knows this type of work should be hired.

The man speaks the truth... I hate to rain on anyone's parade but it's not 1998, switches on the bottom of conference tables and network cables taped to the top is not an acceptable solution.

You need to hire someone with experience designing and deploying wireless network solutions for commercial applications... this is a "pay once, hurt once" situation. If you install a cheap/DIY, home grade wireless solution that doesn't work in a facility catering to business travellers and it's worse than offering nothing at all.

Most hotels I've stayed in charge guests something for internet access or include a surcharge for access as part of a conference room rental. This is one way to defer some of you initial capital costs for equipment and installation (normally depreciated over 3 years anyway) or even generate revenue. I've stayed at numerous hotels that obviously cut corners and installed garbage "Free WiFi" and inevitably it works poorly or not at all in the evenings... and I usually pick a different hotel the next time I stay.

 

[a123456]

The man speaks the truth... I hate to rain on anyone's parade but it's not 1998, switches on the bottom of conference tables and network cables taped to the top is not an acceptable solution.

You need to hire someone with experience designing and deploying wireless network solutions for commercial applications... this is a "pay once, hurt once" situation. If you install a cheap/DIY, home grade wireless solution that doesn't work in a facility catering to business travellers and it's worse than offering nothing at all.

Most hotels I've stayed in charge guests something for internet access or include a surcharge for access as part of a conference room rental. This is one way to defer some of you initial capital costs for equipment and installation (normally depreciated over 3 years anyway) or even generate revenue. I've stayed at numerous hotels that obviously cut corners and installed garbage "Free WiFi" and inevitably it works poorly or not at all in the evenings... and I usually pick a different hotel the next time I stay.

I get everything you're saying and it's all true if the company was a little larger and had more income. But it's just a small 2* hotel with a few rooms, not a fancy 4-5* place. So if the decision is between paying the mortgage and having some hodgepodge, duct-tape Internet or having a tried and true enterprise wireless Internet solution and defaulting on the mortgage, then it's not a hard choice.

The company may not be around in 3 years to depreciate whatever and tax savings only works if you're making a profit. I've been with other companies where a consultant and installing Ruckus, etc. is completely in the cards but it's just not in the budget for this particular company.

Check out Ubiquiti's unified wifi system. Can easily do captive portal, reporting, etc. Exactly what you want, and very, very inexpensive.

This actually does sound exactly like what's needed. It's too bad they don't have more company history but it sounds good on paper.

 

[Emulex]

ubiquiti has been around for a long time. there are a few mesh network cloud based systems that are very very cheap. google-it man.

Free wifi isn't even a concern these days - road warriors have 3G unlimited plans and can tether