Wireless, PC to TV

[Seero]

So my tv room is right below my computer room. Instead of keep buying cheap DVD players which dies within a year, I will like to simply watch stuffs on TV from my computers. So here is the question:

My router send signal all the way from 2nd floor to basement with 95% strength. Can a wireless video card send signal to downstairs (2nd floor to 1st floor, around 25 feet with woods in between?

I'm looking for 1080p res, so what hardwares do I need? (Please don't tell me to swing a wire downstairs.)

Are there things I need to know/lookup?

 

[SirGCal]

To my knowledge, no. It's just too much data. Not without artifacting or some direct line of sight. I have an LG TV with a wireless base transmitter which would be the closest thing (basically a 46" ISP Monitor with a remote wireless control box) but it's extremely picky on placement and orientation. It can't even be in a cabinet...

To transfer HDMI signals through a home, I've seen devices using TWO pair of wired network cables... That gives you an idea of the bandwidth. For just a DVD (480p) signal, ya you could rig something up all wireless but it might be easier just to have an HTPC directly for that TV using wireless networking to your central server and have that act as your DVD/bluray player.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, you need an HTPC, and wireless 5Ghz.

 

[Seero]

To my knowledge, no. It's just too much data. Not without artifacting or some direct line of sight. I have an LG TV with a wireless base transmitter which would be the closest thing (basically a 46" ISP Monitor with a remote wireless control box) but it's extremely picky on placement and orientation. It can't even be in a cabinet...

To transfer HDMI signals through a home, I've seen devices using TWO pair of wired network cables... That gives you an idea of the bandwidth. For just a DVD (480p) signal, ya you could rig something up all wireless but it might be easier just to have an HTPC directly for that TV using wireless networking to your central server and have that act as your DVD/bluray player.

I thought about of buying a mini desktop and put it behind the TV and serve as a player. I guess that will be a better solution, but then I am not used to mini and don't know which mobo is good for 1080p streams.

 

[SirGCal]

By mini, you mean building a tiny box HTPC? Or buying an Atom type PC? Personally I don't care for the Atoms... Just not quite enough power, IMHO.

My basic HTPC build, cheap but effective, would consist of a uATX board with onboard ATI HD 4xxx video. This would be plenty to play blu-ray content at full quality with 5.1 or 7/1 channel encoded audio on the HDMI output. (To bitstream the HD audio over HDMI, you need a 5xxx series card, but that would be an add-on card. Just a 54xx would be plenty).

As for the chip, Anything, AMD Athlon 5000+ or faster (that chip's so old, just about anyting is faster now-a-days). Intel i3's with the Intel HD Video also make a good combination. 2-4G of ram is more than enough. 80G HDD is plenty. What ever optical drive you want (Blu ray or DVD). Case and powersupply. You can do all of this for a very effective system for under $300... I've done it for under 200 but that's really cutting corners. I like to buy quality parts.

If you'd like some examples of my last few HTPC builds, I'd be only too happy to show you a full shopping-list example. The benefit is the HTPC can do anything from even just surfing the web, streaming Hulu or Netflix, DVD & Bluray playback, your private video library, etc. Even mild gaming if you set it up enough. Add in a tuner card and more HDD space and replace your DVR even... I have multiple HTPCs in my home right now over various levels of capability and, being a heavy computer family, it's worth every penny. Guests come over to spend the night, have full internet access and media capability on their own TV in the guest room. Etc. But if it sounds like something you'd enjoy, I highly recommend at least building one good HTPC for yourself. I have yet to have anyone regret it (I've built over 2 dozen for family/friends/neighbors this year alone). And I have a "if you don't like it, I'll keep it and you don't have to pay for it" guarantee for systems I build.

(Notice, if you plan to run Windows 7, that'll add another 100... Darn MS... And to play BluRays, you really want PowerDVD 10 which is another 50-100... Sucks I know... I've been working on a UNIX solution for blurays but so-far... nada... We're all holding out for the 'Slyplayer' which will be free... but when... is the catch...)

Now, if you'd like to start cheap, see if you like it, and enhance it later, that's also VERY possible and easy to do. Your first step would be simple; decide what you like/prefer (AMD/Intel) and go from there. Really, for the budget systems, in the end they'll be very close in price so it's just a matter of preference.

 

[SirGCal]

Here's one of the last budget HTPCs I built. Fully capable and upgradable to even more powerful (actually, I added a 5670 slim card to this one myself to make it a mini-gaming rig even).

You could drop it to a Sempron single-core and 2G of memory and save ~$50 even...

Prices from today @ Newegg:

Rosewill R379-M Slim uATX case with 300W Power Supply $49.99
Biostar A880G+ uATX AM3 Motherboard $54.99
G.SKILL Ripjaws 4G (2x2G) DDR3 1333 $49.99
AMD Athlon II X2 250 Regor 3.0GHz CPU $58.99

Total: $213.96

Add your optical drive and hard drive of your choice and you're off and running. You could do this for as little as $40-50 depending... But more for BR.

If you want Win7, it would also be the time to order the OEM version (64-bit if you plan to play Blu-Rays, though not required, helps. For just DVD, you can easily use any of the free Linux flavors out there. Always upgrade later (and hopefully they bring around a good blu-ray player soon, maybe already have, but I haven't looked lately)).

This is just an example... The case may not be to your liking (honestly, I have yet to find the 'perfect' case for HTPCs, and I've built a ton of em... There's lot of choices with pros/cons.). This particular case works, isn't too expensive, has a very small footprint, is very quiet during operation, and comes with an OK power supply (not great but, easily replaced if it did fail, plus Rosewill tends to stand behind their products from my experience, especially for being a store brand (Newegg's shop brand from what I understand)). But it should get you an idea of what to look for. This is an AMD build but you could turn it around and do something very similar with an Intel i3 for example or even just a Core 2 Duo. It's just a personal preference there.

Now if you want to go super-small (uITX for example), that actually tends to add more $... strangely enough. Plus case selections get even fewer... Right now the bang for the buck really is in uATX (Micro ATX) setups. Lots of cases to choose from, relatively small setup. Media style cases or even cubes available... etc.

If you want help or have ideas but you don't know if it would work, I'm sure tons of people here would be happy to look over your thoughts and give options. I know I would be more than willing myself.

 

[beginner99]

Just get a WDTV Live or a similar "media receiver" that supports wireless. Get a router with the capability off running 2 networks,one at 2.4 ghz and one at 5 ghz (=for streaming). Get an appropriate usb wireless stick for the media receiver (first check compatibility list).

I have this setup an normal 1080p mkv's play flawlessly, about 15-20 Kbps. Full Bluray bitrate would not work but never even tried. So I think plain dvds should work too, wdtv can read iso files!

 

[Seero]

SirGCal, thx for your detail explanation, but building HTPC is new to me, and i suck at wireless (doesn't fully know how to configure routers, so let alone how many G for bit streaming(In fact, i don't know what bit screaming is). I may need a bit more of your time to walk me through this.

First, CPU/GPU:
You mentioned 5xxx video card, but will a 285 do the job? I have a spare. The problem is the size of the card, which may not fit the case, but I am not sure. As to CPU, I also have a C2Q 6600 (going to replace it real soon), so will it do the job? I also have 4Gb of DDR2 too. In short, I am thinking about buying a new micro ATX + case + PSU and retrofit everything back into the box.

Second, mobo/wireless:
So I have a N-router which is pretty decent, but those Micro ATX doesn't seem to come with a wireless card. Am I mistaken? If not, will there be enough space?

Third, I'll probably use the storage as a multi-media storage. Since movies and songs ain't my specialties, I won't need a lot of spaces. I however have lots of HDDs, will I be able to recycle them? Is it possible to build raid0 on those micro ATX? Also, are they hot? Do I need to turn it off or can i leave it 24/7? Do I need keyboard and mouse? Are those multi-purpose remote any good? Am I asking too many questions?

I was about to give up this idea and go for an ipad and hope that somehow i can connect it with the TV. I also thought of buying Galaxy tab for the same purpose, which i don't know if it will do the job. Somehow I think a phone will do the job in the near future, which is why i thought "screw it, just buy a wireless video card for now." But that doesn't work, like all previous plans.

beginner99, it was from SirGCal that i learned what HTPC is(I called them Mini PC due to lack of terms), what is a WDTV live? And more importantly does it work in my case? I can operate a PC, but I suck at remote. Also, I probably won't have a lot of ISO to play as I am planning to play Youtube and alike (tv series from other countries.)

 

[Obsoleet]

I ran a wire to accomplish the same task you're going to accomplish for hundreds of dollars. If you refuse to spend $10 on a wire and run it downstairs, then the best option is a 360 honestly. Supports Windows Media Center (DVR essentially) and all the PlayOn type software for streaming, as well as it's own native streaming capabilities.

 

[SirGCal]

SirGCal, thx for your detail explanation, but building HTPC is new to me, and i suck at wireless (doesn't fully know how to configure routers, so let alone how many G for bit streaming(In fact, i don't know what bit screaming is). I may need a bit more of your time to walk me through this.

No problem...

First, CPU/GPU:
You mentioned 5xxx video card, but will a 285 do the job? I have a spare. The problem is the size of the card, which may not fit the case, but I am not sure.

Simple solution, get a full-sized (width) case. The HTPC in my living room is a uATX mini-tower. Not the slim tower I listed.

As for the 285 though, I would have to investigate. I do not know if it will do bitstreaming or not. If not, the onboard would be just as good unless you want to use it for gaming. Bitstreaming is just pure AC3HD or DTSHD audio output. But if you do not have a 7.1 channel HD capable HDMI passthrough stereo system, then it doesn't really matter anyhow (though in that case you might want a different motherboard with SPDIF audio output also for different options).

As to CPU, I also have a C2Q 6600 (going to replace it real soon), so will it do the job? I also have 4Gb of DDR2 too. In short, I am thinking about buying a new micro ATX + case + PSU and retrofit everything back into the box.

Yes, that would be a very nice core to use. The Core 2 Quad Q6600 is a nice 2.4GHz quad core. I'd say very much overkill for the HTPC's needs. But that is not a bad thing. It's a LGA775 socket which you can still find easily... You might have to get DDR3 if you want on-board SPDIF output but, memory is really cheap right now. For example: ASUS P5G43T-M has the full audio package with SPDIF but requires DDR3. I found a few with DDR2 but none I'd consider myself with SPDIF. OR if you only need HDMI output, then the ASUS P5G41C-M has support for both DDR3 and DDR2 (two each, use one type or the other).

Second, mobo/wireless:
So I have a N-router which is pretty decent, but those Micro ATX doesn't seem to come with a wireless card. Am I mistaken? If not, will there be enough space?

There are PLENTY of add-in wireless cards, even slim height cards, available out there. Or even still if you had to, USB cards. You can make it wireless. You have the router which is the first part. (Make sure it's secure. Set it up with a passcode (I.E. WPA2 Personal) if you haven't already. I can help more with this also if necessary.)

Third, I'll probably use the storage as a multi-media storage. Since movies and songs ain't my specialties, I won't need a lot of spaces. I however have lots of HDDs, will I be able to recycle them? Is it possible to build raid0 on those micro ATX?

There's lots of options. You could get an external fast-swap enclosure and pop them in/out as necessary for example. But RAID 0, why would you want to for a media box? Yes most of them are capable, but it's just a necessity factor (as in, it's not much benefit).

Also, are they hot? Do I need to turn it off or can i leave it 24/7?

Just depends entirely how you build them. None of my computers accept the laptop ever get turned off unless the power goes out. My HTPCs are even configued not to sleep for a very long time (if ever) and the keyboard wakes them up.

Do I need keyboard and mouse?

Just depends how you want to use them. There are some good HTPC type options out there and/or some wireless kbd/mouse in one packages.

Are those multi-purpose remote any good?

again, just depends how you want to use it. Some of the Harmony remotes do have HTPC capabilities IF you have the RF receiver.

Am I asking too many questions?

Never. But it's 4AM so my answers might be half-effort right now.

I was about to give up this idea and go for an ipad and hope that somehow i can connect it with the TV. I also thought of buying Galaxy tab for the same purpose, which i don't know if it will do the job. Somehow I think a phone will do the job in the near future, which is why i thought "screw it, just buy a wireless video card for now." But that doesn't work, like all previous plans.

beginner99, it was from SirGCal that i learned what HTPC is(I called them Mini PC due to lack of terms), what is a WDTV live? And more importantly does it work in my case? I can operate a PC, but I suck at remote. Also, I probably won't have a lot of ISO to play as I am planning to play Youtube and alike (tv series from other countries.)

Something like the WDTV would be a mini-box to do parts of what your thinking about. If all you plan for is youtube/hulu and not Blu-ray, then it might be what you're after. However the reviews of them I've seen are quite mixed.

The 360 option, again depends what you plan to do with it. I have a ton of my personal DVD/BluRay collection which is quite extensive ripped to my 12TB server and the 360 can't play any of them. I could rip them in a way that it could by sacrificing quality but that's not my goal. And honestly, I don't even use my 360 anymore just cause it's not capable. And you'd spend way more on one then you would to finish up an HTPC, especially with the parts you already have...


Back to your setup:
So if you only needed HDMI for example for both your audio/video output, then you could use that ASUS P5G41C-M $64.99, use the onboard video (for now at least), a case and power supply (say $50ish) and a slim height Draft-N wireless PCI card (not PCI-e cause you might want to upgrade the video later, and there's only one on this board) like the Rosewill RNX-N150PC PCI 2.2 Wireless Adapter for a whopping $14.99 and an optical drive of your choice if you don't have another one laying around and you're good to go.

You'd have an HDMI output audio&video, Q6600, 4G DDR2, Draft-N Wireless HTPC up and running for as little as ~$130 out of pocket not including the operating system if needed. You could use a slim case like the Rosewill I listed or a full-sized unit like any of the uATX mini-towers, towers, or desktops. Doesn't have to be a slim case if you don't want it too. Doesn't have to be expensive either.

You can use what-ever keyboard/mouse you have extra right now to get started, even wired, or any of the possible wireless combination boards. (I like the ones with trackballs on the keyboard instead of touchpads, for HTPC use, but that's just my preference. There's tons of options, even fullout remotes or air-mice even. Just depends what you want to spend/do.)

 

[Obsoleet]

A number of free applications will allow a 360 to play your files, guaranteed. It's a good clean solution, esp now that Kinect is available if you have a family. Motion and voice controlled interfaces are great, can't wait to see it working with Netflix.

 

[Wreckage]

Something like this maybe?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/02/upcoming-galaxy-geforce-gtx-460-card-to-support-whdi-streaming-c/

 

[Obsoleet]

That's actually really cool.. I'd buy a whdi gpu for sure if the price is right. For now, a $15 HDMI cable is what I'm on. Any Radeon 4870 or newer can do 7.1 audio over HDMI.

 

[beginner99]

beginner99, it was from SirGCal that i learned what HTPC is(I called them Mini PC due to lack of terms), what is a WDTV live? And more importantly does it work in my case? I can operate a PC, but I suck at remote. Also, I probably won't have a lot of ISO to play as I am planning to play Youtube and alike (tv series from other countries.)

They are called media receivers. The can access shared network drives or media servers (= access files on your pc's hard drive) and play these files like video, music or pictures.
There are different types of these receivers some more focused on local files (= wdtv live IMHO) and other more on internet media (Boxee).
WDTv live can also play youtube (eg. it directly goes to youtube itself and your pc can be turned off) but only at standard resolution which sucks and also some files are blocked like music videos.

 

[SirGCal]

A number of free applications will allow a 360 to play your files, guaranteed. It's a good clean solution, esp now that Kinect is available if you have a family. Motion and voice controlled interfaces are great, can't wait to see it working with Netflix.

My points on the 360 problems;

The biggest problem with that is simply; it's reconverting your videos on the fly to the rather poor XBOX capable playback method. So you lose quality. For example there's no software to make an xbox play .mkv (without DivX), .ogm. ts and .m2ts files, or even just FLAC audio, purely without encoding. There's quality lost in the transfer. Not to mention audio re-encoding to make it even worse and no HD audio bitstreaming.

Next problem is the remote. You're stuck with the xbox remote, controller or spending another $150 on the 30fps Kinect system. On an HTPC (or PS3 for that matter), you can integrate it into the harmony completely.

Further more, to stream Netflix, you have to pay their outrageous gold membership every year. On every other platform (Wii, PS3, PC, etc.) it's free.

Last problem off the top of my head is even the cheapest 360 is still two hundred bills... The conventional 360s are still three to four hundred... So it's more expensive than an HTPC option anyhow...

So the result is the Xbox 360 is not as good for HTPC use as a true HTPC, considering clarity, quality and cost. And in no way is it cheaper by any stretch of the word. If you want it to play games, that might help negate the effect of the initial cost (but it's a glorified computer, coming up on 6 year old technology to boot). It just depends what your end goals are. If you want a free to use, fully capable media box, full internet capabilities and streaming, even gaming potential, while being very inexpensive to build/maintain, a purpose built HTPC is hard to beat. Especially, if like this user, you have perfectly good parts ready to go.

Not to mention, the Xbox just will not ever see BluRay capability in this version. But as I said, it just depends what your end goals are. IMHO, the Xbox makes a pretty poor global media box with all formats and other options considered. Heck, I almost included my Xbox 360 in my Christmas giveaway this year... I never use it anymore... When the kids come to visit, they don't want to play it either. They want to play Wii or with the PC. But if you have one sitting around, it can do some stuff. Or if the setup media boxes like the WDTV box fit your bill, those are fine too.

 

[SirGCal]

Something like this maybe?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/02/upcoming-galaxy-geforce-gtx-460-card-to-support-whdi-streaming-c/

There's an interesting item. Costly though and I wounder how much latency would be introduced. But interesting.

 

[SirGCal]

Any Radeon 4870 or newer can do 7.1 audio over HDMI.

It takes a 5xxx series card (I'm not sure which Nvidia started) to do HD Audio bitstreaming though. Yes you can pass encoded 7.1 through but not the bitstream with a 4xxx.