Wired router/switch question

[QueBert]

I do work for a small company that current has an 8 port Linksys router, it's only 100mb and their database is really slow when they're searching in it. Some of the PC's are worse than others, but I'm figuring the biggest speed issue is from their slow router. Would there be any advantage to getting an 8 port gigabit router over a 4 port gigabit router + a switch? They don't need anything fancy, but I don't want to tell them to buy the wrong equipment.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Are the PCs capable of gigabit, as well as the server? Is the wiring certified for gigabit? (That's probably the biggest issue.)

If the wiring isn't certified for gigabit, then upgrading the endpoints to gigabit could lead to worse and/or erratic performance.

I'm not convinced it's not just the database server either.

 

[ScottMac]

I do work for a small company that current has an 8 port Linksys router, it's only 100mb and their database is really slow when they're searching in it. Some of the PC's are worse than others, but I'm figuring the biggest speed issue is from their slow router. Would there be any advantage to getting an 8 port gigabit router over a 4 port gigabit router + a switch? They don't need anything fancy, but I don't want to tell them to buy the wrong equipment.

Have you run benchmarks against the DB server?

It is by far the most likely suspect; not necessarily the server hardware, but the query code, the disk layout, OS tuning, etc.

A slow network will not cause a slow search, it might slow some of the output, but 100Meg is still enough for a rapid output at the client station (again, application design plays heavily into it)./

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Let's ask the server.

Average CPU utilization? Average network utilization? The server will tell you if it's maxing out it's NIC. If it's not, upgrading the switch won't matter.

Deciding between an 8 port router and a 4-port + switch is going to depend on typical usage patterns and how many simultaneous clients you have.

But... most database servers receive a query, computer locally, and transmit back a response. Unless you're doing something weird, VirtualLarry is probably right about the server needing some upgrading.

 

[QueBert]

Have you run benchmarks against the DB server?

It is by far the most likely suspect; not necessarily the server hardware, but the query code, the disk layout, OS tuning, etc.

A slow network will not cause a slow search, it might slow some of the output, but 100Meg is still enough for a rapid output at the client station (again, application design plays heavily into it)./

No I have not ran any benchmarks, the DB is just an MDB sitting on a NAT that's running some custom file server version of XP. The actual DB's oooold, was written in Access 97 and cannot be opened in any newer version of it. They're dealing with sometimes 30-40 second waiting for a query result. But other times it's only 2-3 seconds for the same search on the same PC. That variation in speed's what had me thinking Gigabit would make a different. They have 8 PC's hooked to the DB, but rarely are more than 2 people in it doing any queries at the same time. I'm not much of a DB guy at all, all I did for them was toss the MDB on the server and put a shortcut on each desktop for them. It's password protected for edit mode and the original creator died. So there's zero chance of me being able to get into the meat of it and updating/changing anything in it.

But after reading both of the replies I'm thinking it's not the router hummm, now I don't know what's causing the random slow down.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the architecture. An "MDB" is a Microsoft Database file? And instead of, say, a real database server like an SQL server, this shop is running a basic file server for 8 clients, and allows access to this file through the file server? So the file server is handling all of the locking, etc., of byte ranges throughout the file, with multiple clients running the database app accessing it?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Yeah, if they're not running a proper database server, going from Fast Ethernet to Gigabit could make things go faster, provided the file is big enough to make bandwidth a bottleneck.

But since it's locked and immutable, it'd make more sense to just copy it to local storage on the workstations, unless it's a friggin HUGE database.

 

[ScottMac]

No I have not ran any benchmarks, the DB is just an MDB sitting on a NAT that's running some custom file server version of XP. The actual DB's oooold, was written in Access 97 and cannot be opened in any newer version of it. They're dealing with sometimes 30-40 second waiting for a query result. But other times it's only 2-3 seconds for the same search on the same PC. That variation in speed's what had me thinking Gigabit would make a different. They have 8 PC's hooked to the DB, but rarely are more than 2 people in it doing any queries at the same time. I'm not much of a DB guy at all, all I did for them was toss the MDB on the server and put a shortcut on each desktop for them. It's password protected for edit mode and the original creator died. So there's zero chance of me being able to get into the meat of it and updating/changing anything in it.

But after reading both of the replies I'm thinking it's not the router hummm, now I don't know what's causing the random slow down.

Most Database service these days are based on a client-server model; the client submits a query, the DB service does all the work, creates a result set, then sends it back to the client.

Older DBS, and/or as a result of a poorly created query (on a new DBS), can cause every record in the database to spool through the network to the client (which is actually doing the selection and creating the result set).

In that case, the server is not going to show any unusual utilization, because it's just spooling the records out the NIC.

I really doubt that your issue is the switch, the router, or the infrastructure, unless you're using hand-made cable that suck and you're causing a lot of re-transmissions.

Does the slowness happen on all PCs? or a couple more than the others? Try running the query / application / whatever on a PC that is connected to the switch with a known good, commercially made cable. Also replace the cable from the server to the switch. Good cables matter, there is more magic to it than just plastic-coated copper, and there are more ways to screw up a hand-made cable than there are to make a good one.

Check it out and get back to us.

 

[QueBert]

Most Database service these days are based on a client-server model; the client submits a query, the DB service does all the work, creates a result set, then sends it back to the client.

Older DBS, and/or as a result of a poorly created query (on a new DBS), can cause every record in the database to spool through the network to the client (which is actually doing the selection and creating the result set).

In that case, the server is not going to show any unusual utilization, because it's just spooling the records out the NIC.

I really doubt that your issue is the switch, the router, or the infrastructure, unless you're using hand-made cable that suck and you're causing a lot of re-transmissions.

Does the slowness happen on all PCs? or a couple more than the others? Try running the query / application / whatever on a PC that is connected to the switch with a known good, commercially made cable. Also replace the cable from the server to the switch. Good cables matter, there is more magic to it than just plastic-coated copper, and there are more ways to screw up a hand-made cable than there are to make a good one.

Check it out and get back to us.

The slowness varies, on 1 PC it was almost instant on Friday. On Monday the same PC took 30 seconds to come back with a result. I understand with 7 other PC's using the DB the speed will vary, but it seems really uneven. The cables were store bought, not sure their quality though, maybe I should have the owner get some from Monoprice, they're cheap and good quality.