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WinXP and home LAN?

T

Tharsis

Member

I'm running a 5 node home LAN...1 Athlon..2 Duron's..1 P-II and a Sony VAIO laptop.
All Win98SE...NetBEUI...10/100Mbps Ethernet with DSL sharing.
Why? Just because it was fun to set up. And by gosh, it works!
So now comes WinXP with 'Product Activation". As I understand it, a guy like me will
be hosed if I attempt to upgrade my LAN(all 5 nodes)to WinXP. Is the best I can hope for, 1 or 2 upgrades then no more? Will I need to buy 5 SEPARATE retail copies of XP?
A big push in the PC industry in the last couple of years has been home LAN'ing...
MS saw this one coming!

Thar.

 


<< As I understand it, a guy like me will be hosed if I attempt to upgrade my LAN(all 5 nodes)to WinXP. Is the best I can hope for, 1 or 2 upgrades then no more? Will I need to buy 5 SEPARATE retail copies of XP? >>

Go read an EULA. You have never been allowed to install a single copy of Windows on 5 machines. If you don't buy Windows 5 times for that network you are breaking the law. Windows XP just makes it more difficult to violate the EULA.

I'm sure the activation will be cracked in less than a day though, so you will just have to pirate 1 copy and use it on 5 machines.

This casual copying is exactly what Windows XP's Activation is designed to prevent. If you are really determined you can find a cracked copy. Activation isn't suppose to stop crackers nor will it.
 
OK...but the argument could be made (and I will ) that a personal home LAN is ONE computer
in an 'extended' configuration...5 CPU's..5 HDD's( RAID?)..5 etc, etc.. It's MY system...I'm not
installing the OS on machines and selling them or giving them away free to a 2nd party....
it's MY system. Would a dual Athlon SMP with 2 HDD's in one box be considered 2 PC's?...ergo,
2 separate EULA's if you wanted ( why, I don't know ) to install the OS on both HDD's?
From a hardware standpoint isn't a 2 node LAN ( single everything ) the same as a single SMP PC
with the difference being a Cat5 cable?

Thar.


 
Make that argument all you want.

That's not the way the EULA reads, and when you install the product you agree to the EULA. There is a disagree button if you don't want to.

If you isntall it on 5 separate machines you are violating a contract that you agree to when you press the &quot;I agree&quot; button.

Microsoft licenses it's OS to the PC, not the User.

A PC with two processors on one motherboard is still one PC. You can install as many copies of the OS on that PC as you want, because the OS is licensed to that PC.

You can't install it on other machines, that's a violation of the EULA.

Personally *I* don't give a crap. I'm just explaining how the EULA works....Win98SE and Win2000 are the same way. MS is just enforcing it a little more now.

I'm quite sure you'll be able to get a cracked copy if you don't want to buy it 5 times.
 
Yeah it's a little gimped....most software is licensed to *YOU* so you can use it as much as you want (well frequently it's you can have as many installs as you want as long as you only use one at a time, but still it's YOUR license). For some reason MS does it backwards. It's the PC's license not yours. Your just a user. It's not your software though.
 
Oh well...I just installed SuSE Linux 7.1 on the &quot;Athlon&quot; node 2 weeks ago (on 2nd HDD ).
Looks great..works great. Just wish the Bookmark feature in Konquerer was more like Favorites in IE...if it was, I'd be moving to Linux 100%

Thar
 
You have completely separate resources for each machine.

You can't drive the video card in another machine from the CPU in the first machine.

Being connected by a network doesn't make it one machine.

Nodes on a cluster maybe, but each node in a cluster needs it's own OS.

Everything on in one computer is connected quite differently than two machines on a LAN.

If you want to think that it's one machine that's fine you are entitled to your opinion...but it's not the defintion 99% of the rest of the computer industry would go with. And it's MS you have to convince not me. I don't know why you are worried about it, just pirate it. If you have the same copy of Win98SE installed on all 5 machines now, you have 4 illegal copies...so just pirate WinXP and you move up to 5 illegal copies. Not a big issue.
 


<< But I still think a home LAN is ONE &quot;machine&quot;... >>



Um...right. And my refrigerator, stove, and dish washer are all one machine too. Unless Machine #3 can use machine #1s processor, RAM, and other resources freely, it isn't one machine. By your logic, any computer connected to the Internet becomes one machine.
 


<< By your logic, any computer connected to the Internet becomes one machine >>

Heheh that's what I was thinking....I'm trying to figure out how he differentiates between machines....becuase there are some big ass networks....

Even if he doesn't like the Internet as &quot;one machine&quot; I have nearly 2500 machines at work that are all on one network to. Hell they aren't even all &quot;PCs&quot; there are some Solaris workstations, and IBM, HP and Sun servers, along with the PC servers. But it's all one network.
 
A little different subject:


<< All Win98SE...NetBEUI...10/100Mbps Ethernet with DSL sharing >>


It will be NO NetBEUI in WinXP. MS killed it.
 
What?!?!?

That's terrible! What about IPX/SPX?

I need two protocols, my cable modem only accepts TCP/IP so I use TCP/IP for internet, but I use something else for local LAN traffic (for security reasons because the cable modem won't send packets that aren't TCP/IP). There must still be IPX/SPX right???
 
I'm not sure if this is clear to me: how many of your 5 machines do you want to have running the XP OS? You will need one end-user license per installation, but you can use the &quot;Perform Additional Tasks&quot; feature of the XP CD to upgrade the networking sets of other Windows OS'es to be compatible with XP.

PM me if you have any further questions about this matter🙂.
 
Noriaki,

You sound like the Mouth of Microsoft in this thread. 🙂

MS's EULA and pricing is the main problem, though hardware-locking is stupid, too. The EULA being tied to one machine is draconian. The fact they expect you to pay full price for the second copy is outrageous. Because of this, there is public outcry.

They have full rights to protect their work and make a buck but when they go overboard people will find other options. No way I'm shelling out all that $$$ just to make MS look better to investors.
 
I read your quote with some interest ...
<<
OK...but the argument could be made (and I will ) that a personal home LAN is ONE computer
in an 'extended' configuration...5 CPU's..5 HDD's( RAID?) ... Would a dual Athlon SMP with 2 HDD's in one box be considered 2 PC's?

>>

This is something to notice because I know for a fact that for some product lines Microsoft sells Licenses Per Processor. That means your 32-way Xeon box needs 32 copies of software. Installing one copy of software on one machine is technically illegal and breaks the EULA. Everyone does it though ...

crack onward
randal
 
>&quot;If you want to think that it's one machine that's fine you are entitled to your opinion...but >it's not the defintion 99% of the rest of the computer industry would go with&quot;

It was a devil's advocate position....technically perhaps so but legally...well that's what lawyers and juries are for. Definitions can change...e.g. &quot;what is the definition of the word &quot;is&quot;?...
MS would LIKE to control &quot;99% of the rest of the computer industry&quot;.....
I agree with JellyBaby...EULA's tied to the machine rather than the user is what is draconian.
Hmmm...so if the EULA is tied to the machine than how can I Accept or Not Accept something for another entity? ;-) Just for the sake of argument... ;-)


Thar...

&quot;Unthinking respect for Authority is the greatest enemy of the Truth&quot;
A. Einstein
 
MicroShaft is so gay.. They are dumber than a box of nails. I plan on sticking with Win2k. XP is just a bit too queer for me - the authentication, that is. I would like to try out XP for what it is, an OS, but I don't want to try it out bad enuf to put up with M$'s gay schemes.
 


<< Noriaki, You sound like the Mouth of Microsoft in this thread. >>

LOL! Thanks!

Let me just clarify, I do not support Microsoft's EULA format. I agree with you, licensing to the hardware is absurd. I'm just trying to explain how Microsoft writes the EULA and does their licensing. I'm not trying to say I think they are right because I don't. I can understand them wanting you to pay for each license...but something like Borland's is much more fair IMO (Borland allows you to install as much as you want, as long as you only use one copy at a time. So home PC, work PC, and laptop is perfectly acceptable as long as you only use 1 at a time). And I also think group buys should be open to anyone.

For example, he buys Win XP Pro once at full price. I think he should be allowed to buy license #2,3,4 and 5 at a much more reduced price. Hell I would think MS would support this, they are getting more market penetration then.

I think it's ridiculous that Tharsis should be required to spit up $1000 (estimate) for 5 copies of Win XP Pro for his 5 personal machiens.

I'm just explaining how Microsoft does it. If you two want to challenge to their EULA and try to get it changed, make me #3 on that list!

But draconian or not, under the current MS EULA contract he has to buy 5 copies of Windows for his 5 machines.
 
EULAs are meaningless. They are little words in a little box. They carry no legal weight whatsoever. Microsoft wants you to think otherwise of course. But EULAs have never been recognized in any US court to carry the legal weight of a standard paper contract with your John Hancock on it. EULAs are just meaningless handwaving until the government implements a legally recognized digital signature system.

By installing a piece of software on more than one computer, you may or may not be breaking copyright law, depending on how well your lawyer argues that your home LAN is in fact one extended supercomputer. However, unless Microsoft has your John Hancock on a paper contract, you are bound by absolutely nothing BUT copyright law. The EULA is absolutely nonbinding.
 
Noriaki writes:

>For example, he buys Win XP Pro once at full price. I think he should be allowed to buy license >#2,3,4 and 5 at a much more reduced price. Hell I would think MS would support this, they are >getting more market penetration then.

>I think it's ridiculous that Tharsis should be required to spit up $1000 (estimate) for 5 copies >of Win XP Pro for his 5 personal machiens.

Thanks Noriaki for the comments. If I could buy a &quot;multiple&quot; license as you suggest I could go along with that....but as you say, 5 copies of shrink-wrapped(ed) XP Pro for ~$1,000 retail
is enough for me to fold the shop on Home LAN'ing......

Thar.

 


<< ~$1,000 retail
is enough for me to fold the shop on Home LAN'ing...... >>



This is ridiculous. Don't fold the shop on Home LAN'ing. If Microsoft is overpricing its products out of your reach, use Linux. Linux is networked right out of the box, is more secure, more robust, fully journaled using your choice of ReiserFS or XFS, has virtually zero viruses, and costs nothing.

It is to people like you (technology enthusiasts who build medium to small home networks) that Linux has the most appeal as a desktop solution. People using a single desktop will not necessarily see the advantages of migrating to Linux. But for people like you, the affordability, security and robustness of a Linux-based network should make this OS the obvious choice. And when you migrate to Linux, your friends, who always look to you for IT advice and support, will become curious about Linux. It's a win-win situation for all concerned. (Except Microsoft)
 
AFAIR the &quot;per machine&quot; license idea was an offshoot of the mainframe/mini computer
era; where you bought the machine alone, and the OS came as part of the service contract.

If you think EULA have no weight, then I hope you are keeping up to date on
UCITA legislation in your state.

Noriaki, it would appear to have an IPX/SPX stack still in the betas. And I've heard
no reports of it being taken out. NetBEUI was more of a problem protocol to manage.
 
lucidguy:
Appreciate yr comments re: Linux. I installed SuSE Linux 7.1 two weeks ago on the Athlon node
and am VERY impressed...stable...great looking GUI (KDE 2.0...WAY better looking than Win98SE!).
DSL connection works fine also ( BIG consideration ). As I get more knowledgeable with Linux
I hope to migrate to a LAN configuration as you pointed out...

Thar.
 
Um.....Can we say Corporate Copy Of WinXP?????😉😉

No Activation!😉 I'm not sure exactly what the requirements are to buy a copy direct from MS......(mainly because I know I qualify and haven't checked😉) but you can bet there will be copies floating around For Sale😉
 
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