WindowsCE.NET Defined (upgrade for PocketPC2002 devices)

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
It's get harder for Palm each and every day especially since PocketPC's are now down to the weight/form factor of the Clie's and M515's:D

http://www.pencomputing.com/frames/ce_net.html

Built-in support of BlueTooth and 802.11b
* Seamless transfer between connection types and on-line/off-line modes
* Messaging and VOIP
* Remote desktop control for MIRA-like functionality
* Internet Explorer 5.5
* Direct3D, DirectDraw, DirectMusic, Wave/DirectSound, DirectShow, DirectX, DVD-Video, Windows Media, MP3, and Digital Rights Management
* Customizable, skinnable interface
* Multiple screen support
* Dynamic Screen Rotation
* Protected File Storage
* Integrated RAM/ROM Storage
* Much more robust storage device driver set
* Device notification
* Security
* Enhanced Language Support
* Much better device emulation
* Real-Time Performance
 

joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
12,340
1
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:D

Now what I want is a TabletPC with X-Scale and CE.NET. And at least 5+ hours of battery life.

Also, can't wait 'til the .NET Compact Framework is released. :D
 

joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
12,340
1
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Originally posted by: singh
Originally posted by: joohang
:D

Now what I want is a TabletPC

Oh man TablePC's are going to be real nice. I can't wait!

There's one out but it got Windows XP (not TabletPC Edition) and the battery life is barely 2 hours. WTF...

I want a TabletPC with at least 5 hours of battery life to replace my laptop and SmartPhone to replace my iPAQ and cell phone. :D
 

Turkey

Senior member
Jan 10, 2000
839
0
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Tablet PCs suck. You have to have incredible handwriting recognition software just to make it un-frustrating to use... ie if it's wirelessly connected to the internet, you have to somehow input the address of the site into your address bar. Forget about writing email, posting on Anandtech, or anything else that requires more input than "click click click," which is pretty much every computer application but routine maintenance and reading email. I've been there and done that, and it's completely unusable.

Windows CE.NET also sucks, and not just from a usability standpoint, but also from a developers standpoint. In terms of usability, Windows CE is a total hack to force a keyboard & mouse UI onto a resource-constrained pen-based computing platform. Since most of the ROM used for the OS goes to supporting all the various UI widgets like text boxes and radio buttons and check boxes and the start bar (who the hell came up with a start bar on a VGA or smaller screen?), there isn't much left for interesting functionality. Plus (at least on the CE device I'm working with now), the interface is nearly exactly the same as w2k... which means you have to double click on all the icons... with a pen. The driver model sucks: I inserted a wireless networking card into the device I'm working with, and it asked for the name of the driver for that card. So I had to input it... using the handwriting recognition software... which sucks. And there's no feedback after you click ok - not "successfully initialized," not "bad driver name," not anything.

So now I'll talk about how much developing for WinCE.NET sucks. The OS is in final release, but the development environment is in beta. And MSDN didn't document what .NET functions are supported in CE.NET, so the only way to know if a function is available on CE.NET is to use intellisense and scroll through all the available class members. If the function you want isn't in the list, it's not supported! And then like I said before, the UI takes up most of the ROM allocated for the OS, so the supported .NET functionality is NEXT TO NOTHING. This leads to some interesting hacks... for instance, MS (in its infinite wisdom) made CE a "multi-threading" OS. What does this mean in terms of .NET? You can easily create a thread using the Thread class. You can easily start the thread using Thread.Start. But wait, where's Thread.Abort when you want to stop the thread? Oh, IT'S NOT THERE! Every time you want to create a multi-threaded app, you have to create a hack around this, because (are you ready?) MS used a brilliant .NET feature, class sealing, so that you can't derive from the Thread class. And it's not just this missing functionality... all the STL-like data structures that are so convenient in .NET on the desktop? Gone. All the overloaded constructors and functions that reduce the number of lines of code that you have to write? Gone. It's not that the functionality is harder to use, it's that the functionality just isn't there, and you don't know what isn't there until it fails! It's like bringing home an electric furnace and discovering that not only can you not change the temperature of the air that comes out of it, there isn't even a thermometer so you know what temp the air is, you can't install one, and the government is investigating the company that made it because there aren't any other electric furnaces on the market! :p

So yeah... tablet PCs suck, WindowsCE.NET sucks, and developing for WinCE.NET sucks. You'll all buy one, thinking it's cool because you'll be carrying around a whole PC & it's pen-based, and you may even tell yourself that it doesn't suck because you paid $800 for it, but it does suck.
 

joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
12,340
1
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Hold it. Hold it, Turkey.

Let's get on the same page first, ok?

1) We are speaking of different "TabletPCs" here. It appears to me that you are talking about the old WinCE 3.0 ones. I am taking about the new, upcoming ones with Windows XP TabletPC edition. It has a keyboard, a touchpad and a 10.4" XGA touchscreen LCD. It is a very usable piece of device.

2) I think I said this before: .NET CF is in BETA 1! Do you honestly expect any software company to release the entire document at a beta stage? ;) :p I can't comment on the threading problem, but perhaps you could file a request to the .NET CF team so that they resolve the issue before the release. Rant to them, not us. :)

3) You are not talking about Windows CE.NET. You are talking about Windows CE 3.0.
 

Turkey

Senior member
Jan 10, 2000
839
0
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1) We are speaking of different "TabletPCs" here. It appears to me that you are talking about the old WinCE 3.0 ones. I am taking about the new, upcoming ones with Windows XP TabletPC edition. It has a keyboard, a touchpad and a 10.4" XGA touchscreen LCD. It is a very usable piece of device.

I thought you said in your first post you wanted a tablet PC with CE.NET??? A tablet PC with a keyboard would be much nicer than one without, but I think once a keyboard is added it ceases to be either a tablet (a pen-based computer) and a tabletPC (whatever MS's definition is) and becomes a sub-notebook with a touchscreen, especially if the keyboard & screen are a clamshell. And then if you have a touchscreen, why do you need a touchpad, and vice versa? What's the difference between XP & XP TabletPC Ed., and XP TabletPC Ed & CE.NET, BTW?

For a beta sdk, I would expect that there would be some (if not all) documentation to come with it. The idea of the beta is to use it & report back on implementation issues, not be spending entire days trying to figure out the best hack to use because there is no easy & quick way to tell what any of the functions do.

As far as CE.NET vs CE3.0, CE.NET = CE3.0 + .NET CF + some other stuff that isn't strictly .NET. So suppose these .NET implementations for Unix come out, and I want to take advantage of the "write once, run anywhere" features of .NET, there is no difference between CE3.0 + .NET CF and CE.NET.
 

joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
12,340
1
0
I thought you said in your first post you wanted a tablet PC with CE.NET??? A tablet PC with a keyboard would be much nicer than one without, but I think once a keyboard is added it ceases to be either a tablet (a pen-based computer) and a tabletPC (whatever MS's definition is) and becomes a sub-notebook with a touchscreen, especially if the keyboard & screen are a clamshell. And then if you have a touchscreen, why do you need a touchpad, and vice versa? What's the difference between XP & XP TabletPC Ed., and XP TabletPC Ed & CE.NET, BTW?
TabletPC has a screen that "rotates" so that it may be used as a pen tablet or a subnotebook. Brillant design, imo. One model comes with a detachable screen and wireless keyboard also.

This is what I said:
Now what I want is a TabletPC with X-Scale and CE.NET. And at least 5+ hours of battery life.
Check a recent AnandTech review of a TabletPC model. I was somewhat disappointed so what I was saying was that I WANT a differently-designed TabletPC with Windows CE.NET and longer battery life.

From my understanding, Windows XP TabletPC Edition is a superset of Windows XP designed for TabletPCs. Windows CE.NET is Windows CE 5.0. CE.NET is modular also.

For a beta sdk, I would expect that there would be some (if not all) documentation to come with it. The idea of the beta is to use it & report back on implementation issues, not be spending entire days trying to figure out the best hack to use because there is no easy & quick way to tell what any of the functions do.
I agree. Ideally, if they are working on this project with a strict, formalized process, the documentation should be readied as they are building the product. Unfortunately, that is not the case. But then Microsoft generally does a pretty good job with documentation compared to many other companies out there.

Another thing, perhaps the documentation is just not out for public because the beta is not public. However, I am not a beta tester and I downloaded CF beta 1 through MSDN, so I don't know if the beta kit ships with a beta documentation.

As far as CE.NET vs CE3.0, CE.NET = CE3.0 + .NET CF + some other stuff that isn't strictly .NET. So suppose these .NET implementations for Unix come out, and I want to take advantage of the "write once, run anywhere" features of .NET, there is no difference between CE3.0 + .NET CF and CE.NET.
My reply was to clarify that CE.NET's UI differs from CE 3.0's UI. And as far as I know, Microsoft never promised "write once, run anywhere." Sun did. :)
 

cavingjan

Golden Member
Nov 15, 1999
1,719
0
0
I am really looking forward to this (even though I am a die hard palm fan) from a business standpoint. Right now, I'm writing a vb program to allow our inspectors to perform our inspections on a laptop and have it generate a report. Only problem is size, weight, and lack of battery life. I would love to dump this thing to a pda except I would hate to have to read the thing on such a little screen. Give me a decent touch screen (application is 70% check boxes, 25% combo boxes, and 5% input boxes), 10 hours of battery life, and a nice easy to use interface that when someone really buggers something up, I can just reset the whole shooting match and restore the program from a flash card and I'll be happy.
I know everybody wants color and its nice to have but not at the expense of battery life. Its still probable that we will have times when finding an outlet for charging the thing for even 10 minutes could be a major hassle. Its still not uncommon for me to run my pda without seeing the cradle (or a charger if it had a rechargable battery in it) for a couple days of heavy use. I don't know how many times I've had to change batteries midflight or on a rescue scene because I've been using it for 14 straight hours.
Give me something with a user swappable battery and I'll be happy.