Windows Vista May Have a Show Stopper Bug

[Smilin]

Oh, one last thing apoppin...

My joke about tinfoil hats was also factual and honest so there, jerk!

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/





(haha, never pwned anyone with a joke before that was fun)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Smilin
Oh, one last thing apoppin...

My joke about tinfoil hats was also factual and honest so there, jerk!

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/





(haha, never pwned anyone with a joke before that was fun)

one can only hope it is

and 'jerk' yourself .. . . you clearly pwned yourself . . . only an idiot will pick on the smallest of 'issues' - posting styles - and go into a huge attack and endless rant on another member's off-hand comment - that was clearly not understood or taken for what it was . .. while doing exactly the SAME thing himself.
:thumbsdown:

clearly you missed the entire point of my comment - on your first post - and wasted a huge amount of time drawing attention to a topic that should have died a long time ago. . . . you have a twisted and warped sense of humour that finds it "fun" making a joke but bitching when you cannot understand the 'joke' of another

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin
Oh, one last thing apoppin...

My joke about tinfoil hats was also factual and honest so there, jerk!

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/





(haha, never pwned anyone with a joke before that was fun)

one can only hope it is

and 'jerk' yourself .. . . you clearly pwned yourself . . . only an idiot will pick on the smallest of 'issues' - posting styles - and go into a huge attack and endless rant on another member's off-hand comment - that was clearly not understood or taken for what it was . .. while doing exactly the SAME thing himself.
:thumbsdown:

clearly you missed the entire point of my comment and wasted a huge amount of time drawing attention to a topic that should have died a long time ago. . . . you have a twisted and warped sense of humour that finds it "fun" making a joke but bitching when you cannot understand the 'joke' of another

done yet? You've embarassed yourself enough here.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin
Oh, one last thing apoppin...

My joke about tinfoil hats was also factual and honest so there, jerk!

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/





(haha, never pwned anyone with a joke before that was fun)

one can only hope it is

and 'jerk' yourself .. . . you clearly pwned yourself . . . only an idiot will pick on the smallest of 'issues' - posting styles - and go into a huge attack and endless rant on another member's off-hand comment - that was clearly not understood or taken for what it was . .. while doing exactly the SAME thing himself.
:thumbsdown:

clearly you missed the entire point of my comment and wasted a huge amount of time drawing attention to a topic that should have died a long time ago. . . . you have a twisted and warped sense of humour that finds it "fun" making a joke but bitching when you cannot understand the 'joke' of another

done yet? You've embarassed yourself enough here.

you still don't get it
:disgust:

you are slow . . . no wonder M$ is having so much trouble getting Vista out on time . . . . and limiting functionality all the while proclaiming it will be "the greatest ever"

let me try for he last time


1. The OP asked a valid question that was also asked by theinq.
2. you answered: 'we don't know' but all is well and on schedule
3. you then added the stupid 'tinfoil theory' - withOUT a smiley

4. i responded to YOU:
. a. M$ will never tell us why [as often in the past]
. b. wait for the next release - there will be another beta [and if it is made public it will be number 3 even if it is 2 repackaged].
. c. the final release will be buggy [even you agree with that]

5. You went wild, attacking me, my use of the $ sign and even attempting to belittle my use of my choice of OS.

here we are

the problem is with you
:roll:

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: apoppin
M$ will never tell us 'why' . . .

just wait for RC3

and the buggy final releaase
[guaranteed]

It's MS, not M$. Be a grown up so that you get taken seriously.

If you can find the person at MS who knows why he's having download trouble I'm quite certain they will tell you. I can tell you for certain what the problem is *not*: some showstopping bug.

There will not be an RC3.

When released, Vista will be the most thoroughly tested new-release OS the world has ever seen. But, unless you want to go back to an OS as simplistic as CPM there will never be an OS released without bugs.

Besides... you're still running Windows 98 *snicker* , what do you care?

well, i guess you figured what it finally meant . . . good for you

i am running Win2k, Smarty.

and i will be getting Vista . . that's 'why'

and nothing you post can ever make us take you seriously
:thumbsdown:
you sound like a "paid ad" for M$ [are you?] . . . i hope you don't believe your own hype
:roll:

You spell MS with an $. You should just go ahead and write "zealot" on your forehead. You won't even catch legitimate *nix admins on these forums doing this: n0cmonkey, drag, nothinman etc. The $ is the mark of an idiot. Wear it proudly then..

Oh I'm sorry... you're running a six year old OS instead of an eight year old OS? You must update your signature about as often as your OS then "smarty". Where do you think I got the info from?

I don't think it qualifies as advertising for MS by rolling my eyes at such a stupid tinfoil hat conspiracy theory statement like, "M$ will never tell us 'why' . . . "

I came into this thread and provided as much honest and factual information as I could to help answer the OPs post. I don't really need some ration of ****** from you or anyone else wearing some MS-proof tinfoil hat.

And yes. Vista will be more thoroughly tested before release than any MS or non-MS desktop OS ever known. If you can prove otherwise, do it. This entire thread was spawned from someone running a beta of Vista. How many OSX beta users do you think there were? How much did Apple or Redhat budget for testing their latest OSs? If you want to get into the same league you're going to have to turn to IBM and OS/400 (which isn't even a desktop OS).

equating M$ with a "zealot' is in your mind only. it may be the 'mark of an idiot' to you . . . but it takes a real idiot to focus in on that instead of substance in a post.

you post useless info about Vista and it just shows you are neither factual nor honest and i certainly have nothing to prove to an idiot or a ridiculer

anyway . .. i DID d/l Vista RC2 after the supposed "stopper" . . .

<== software engineer

Linux being open source is probably better tested since true geeks can do code inspections. It's also a long lasting OS ... so instead of doing an OS from scratch every few years, Linux just continually improves itself.

But what's the point. This is an argument that nobody can win.

Oh, being a software geek ... a common punchline is this:
Q: Why doesn't Microsoft just patch an OS or product till it's nearly perfect?
A: Can't make money by doing that now can we.

I think you forget that for every one geek inspecting Linux os , there are 10,000 geek inspecting MS OS to find vulnerability so they can annoy the Microsoft and its user.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

*taken from tuteja1986's sig*

Unban Bug777

Haha. You mean Dug777, right?

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Linux being open source is probably better tested since true geeks can do code inspections. It's also a long lasting OS ... so instead of doing an OS from scratch every few years, Linux just continually improves itself.

But what's the point. This is an argument that nobody can win.

Actually if the argument is still 'Vista is the most tested desktop OS ever released' then the argument can be won quite easily.

Let's do some estimates. Even with huge margins of error and some big assumptions Linux just isn't getting the same testing as Vista. The numbers surrounding Vista testing are staggering...

The largest Linux distro, Ubuntu has an estimated 80,000 users (wild estimates out there...this is the highest one I could find). Assuming every single one of these users inspects code and/or files bugs that would mean there are over five times the number of Vista beta testers than all Ubuntu users combined.

...keep in mind I'm comparing users of Ubuntu post-release to users of Vista pre-release. If you can find an estimate of the number of pre-release testers for Ubuntu or other distro let me know but I think the number is going to drop by a digit. Don't forget we are assuming all 80,000 users know code or bother to file bugs even though they are not paid to.

Ubuntu also has a dev team of around 300 people (again, the largest of all distros) who are primarily part time or hobbyists. MS will throw this number of *full time* people on a single component of vista (say Aero) and give them a deadline. There are of course portions of Ubuntu not written by the Ubuntu devs (gnome for instance) but the same can be said for Windows. IE 7 has an entirely separate beta program that is just as staggering in size.

Now I've been discussing a particular distro (a fair comparison to Vista). You could include all other Linux distros but then you would have to start pulling in other Windows "distros" as well ... 2003 R2, Longhorn server etc. You could also perhaps go down to just the 'real' linux: the kernel. Do the same thing with ntoskrnl.exe. That thing is over a decade old. How much testing do you think it's gotten over it's lifetime? there are 400 Million people using the 5.1 version right now. Want to bring 4.0, 5.0, 5.2 into the mix?

Also, I've only been talking about the ~500,000 "civilian" beta testers for Vista. Internally MS has been running vista on 10,000 desktops for over a year now and these guys are not "maybe testing and filing bugs" it's their job.

Like Linux (and all other OSs that I'm aware of) MS doesn't do a complete OS from scratch either...who knows when the last time flpydisk.sys was "rewritten". When they do decide to rewrite even one component it's backed by 5 billion (with a b) dollar a year R&D budget. So if you want to bring "continually improves itself" into the mix I'm going to have to add the dev and testers from all the way back to like NT 3.1 and include a budget comprable with the GNP of a small country.


Let me clearly state: I'm not knockin Linux here. Great OS, glad you dig it. It's just that when you start comparing the two you start seeing decimal points shift in the numbers.

Windows Vista is the most thoroughly tested desktop OS that has ever been released.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
I think you forget that for every one geek inspecting Linux os , there are 10,000 geek inspecting MS OS to find vulnerability so they can annoy the Microsoft and its user.

haha there is that, yea.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Linux being open source is probably better tested since true geeks can do code inspections. It's also a long lasting OS ... so instead of doing an OS from scratch every few years, Linux just continually improves itself.

But what's the point. This is an argument that nobody can win.

Actually if the argument is still 'Vista is the most tested desktop OS ever released' then the argument can be won quite easily.

Let's do some estimates. Even with huge margins of error and some big assumptions Linux just isn't getting the same testing as Vista. The numbers surrounding Vista testing are staggering...

The largest Linux distro, Ubuntu has an estimated 80,000 users (wild estimates out there...this is the highest one I could find). Assuming every single one of these users inspects code and/or files bugs that would mean there are over five times the number of Vista beta testers than all Ubuntu users combined.

...keep in mind I'm comparing users of Ubuntu post-release to users of Vista pre-release. If you can find an estimate of the number of pre-release testers for Ubuntu or other distro let me know but I think the number is going to drop by a digit. Don't forget we are assuming all 80,000 users know code or bother to file bugs even though they are not paid to.

Ubuntu also has a dev team of around 300 people (again, the largest of all distros) who are primarily part time or hobbyists. MS will throw this number of *full time* people on a single component of vista (say Aero) and give them a deadline. There are of course portions of Ubuntu not written by the Ubuntu devs (gnome for instance) but the same can be said for Windows. IE 7 has an entirely separate beta program that is just as staggering in size.

Now I've been discussing a particular distro (a fair comparison to Vista). You could include all other Linux distros but then you would have to start pulling in other Windows "distros" as well ... 2003 R2, Longhorn server etc. You could also perhaps go down to just the 'real' linux: the kernel. Do the same thing with ntoskrnl.exe. That thing is over a decade old. How much testing do you think it's gotten over it's lifetime? there are 400 Million people using the 5.1 version right now. Want to bring 4.0, 5.0, 5.2 into the mix?

Also, I've only been talking about the ~500,000 "civilian" beta testers for Vista. Internally MS has been running vista on 10,000 desktops for over a year now and these guys are not "maybe testing and filing bugs" it's their job.

Like Linux (and all other OSs that I'm aware of) MS doesn't do a complete OS from scratch either...who knows when the last time flpydisk.sys was "rewritten". When they do decide to rewrite even one component it's backed by 5 billion (with a b) dollar a year R&D budget. So if you want to bring "continually improves itself" into the mix I'm going to have to add the dev and testers from all the way back to like NT 3.1 and include a budget comprable with the GNP of a small country.


Let me clearly state: I'm not knockin Linux here. Great OS, glad you dig it. It's just that when you start comparing the two you start seeing decimal points shift in the numbers.

Windows Vista is the most thoroughly tested desktop OS that has ever been released.

you sure like to argue with yourself.

you're a walking advertisement for M$ . . . you outta pay AT to post your hype.

and - using your favourite word - idiot -Windows Vista is the most thoroughly tested desktop OS that has Never been released.

--fixed for you

in case you haven't heard . . . Vista has been delayed . . .

 

[tuteja1986]

stop the fighting

Lets pick on evil guy Apple Steve Job

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin
Oh, one last thing apoppin...

My joke about tinfoil hats was also factual and honest so there, jerk!

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/





(haha, never pwned anyone with a joke before that was fun)

one can only hope it is

and 'jerk' yourself .. . . you clearly pwned yourself . . . only an idiot will pick on the smallest of 'issues' - posting styles - and go into a huge attack and endless rant on another member's off-hand comment - that was clearly not understood or taken for what it was . .. while doing exactly the SAME thing himself.
:thumbsdown:

clearly you missed the entire point of my comment and wasted a huge amount of time drawing attention to a topic that should have died a long time ago. . . . you have a twisted and warped sense of humour that finds it "fun" making a joke but bitching when you cannot understand the 'joke' of another

done yet? You've embarassed yourself enough here.

you still don't get it
:disgust:

you are slow . . . no wonder M$ is having so much trouble getting Vista out on time . . . . and limiting functionality all the while proclaiming it will be "the greatest ever"

let me try for he last time


1. The OP asked a valid question that was also asked by theinq.
2. you answered: 'we don't know' but all is well and on schedule
3. you then added the stupid 'tinfoil theory' - withOUT a smiley

4. i responded to YOU:
. a. M$ will never tell us why [as often in the past]
. b. wait for the next release - there will be another beta [and if it is made public it will be number 3 even if it is 2 repackaged].
. c. the final release will be buggy [even you agree with that]

5. You went wild, attacking me, my use of the $ sign and even attempting to belittle my use of my choice of OS.

here we are

the problem is with you
:roll:

done yet? The argument was over a long time ago. You made a fool of yourself and got pwned. You can keep tacking on one post after another trying to summarize/rehash/reword it to make the outcome different but anyone can just start from the top and watch you do it again and again. The facts don't change. Unlike yours, you'll never find an "edit" flag in any of my posts (you aren't the first to try this crap). It's over. Begone.

You're doing nothing at this point but sh1ting all over the thread. Spare all of us and just leave. The only thing you can hope to accomplish is to get me to actually flame you. Don't mistake the slapping around you've been getting thusfar as a flame. I've been doing that with one hand while HELPING people via PM with the other. You still have yet to make so much as one single contribution dispite all your wasted posts.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
stop the fighting

OK . . . but he started it



and called your topic a 'conspiracy theory' even though it was a legitimate question.

ANYway. . . you gotta admit . . . this topic got a LOT more attention than it deserved.

==================

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin
Oh, one last thing apoppin...

My joke about tinfoil hats was also factual and honest so there, jerk!

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/





(haha, never pwned anyone with a joke before that was fun)

one can only hope it is

and 'jerk' yourself .. . . you clearly pwned yourself . . . only an idiot will pick on the smallest of 'issues' - posting styles - and go into a huge attack and endless rant on another member's off-hand comment - that was clearly not understood or taken for what it was . .. while doing exactly the SAME thing himself.
:thumbsdown:

clearly you missed the entire point of my comment and wasted a huge amount of time drawing attention to a topic that should have died a long time ago. . . . you have a twisted and warped sense of humour that finds it "fun" making a joke but bitching when you cannot understand the 'joke' of another

done yet? You've embarassed yourself enough here.

you still don't get it
:disgust:

you are slow . . . no wonder M$ is having so much trouble getting Vista out on time . . . . and limiting functionality all the while proclaiming it will be "the greatest ever"

let me try for he last time


1. The OP asked a valid question that was also asked by theinq.
2. you answered: 'we don't know' but all is well and on schedule
3. you then added the stupid 'tinfoil theory' - withOUT a smiley

4. i responded to YOU:
. a. M$ will never tell us why [as often in the past]
. b. wait for the next release - there will be another beta [and if it is made public it will be number 3 even if it is 2 repackaged].
. c. the final release will be buggy [even you agree with that]

5. You went wild, attacking me, my use of the $ sign and even attempting to belittle my use of my choice of OS.

here we are

the problem is with you
:roll:

done yet? The argument was over a long time ago. You made a fool of yourself and got pwned. You can keep tacking on one post after another trying to summarize/rehash/reword it to make the outcome different but anyone can just start from the top and watch you do it again and again. The facts don't change. Unlike yours, you'll never find an "edit" flag in any of my posts (you aren't the first to try this crap). It's over. Begone.

You're doing nothing at this point but sh1ting all over the thread. Spare all of us and just leave. The only thing you can hope to accomplish is to get me to actually flame you. Don't mistake the slapping around you've been getting thusfar as a flame. I've been doing that with one hand while HELPING people via PM with the other. You still have yet to make so much as one single contribution dispite all your wasted posts.

you only think so in your own mind. you are a total hypocrite

and feel free to leave yourself

 

[Smilin]

I'm taking off tuteja1986. Sorry your thread got sh1t on so much. PM me again tomorrow and remind me. I'll jump out to the connect site again and see if I can get you an exact link. No promises at this late date tho.

 

[tuteja1986]

dude don't worry , in our office we have many copies of Windows RC2...

 

[aka1nas]

They said before it was put up that it would only be available for a very limited time and for only a small number of users.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: apoppin
look M$ beta boy . . . no one else cares that i used a dollar symbol for an 's'.. . .

I care. It makes you look like either a 12 year old, or a childish older person. Either way, it tells me you're not to be taken seriously.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: apoppin
look M$ beta boy . . . no one else cares that i used a dollar symbol for an 's'.. . .

I care. It makes you look like either a 12 year old, or a childish older person. Either way, it tells me you're not to be taken seriously.

and reading your posts tells me the same thing

your loss .. . . or not

i don't care what you think of my posting style [period]

please feel completely free to skip all my future posts . . . i will gladly skip yours

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: apoppin
look M$ beta boy . . . no one else cares that i used a dollar symbol for an 's'.. . .

I care. It makes you look like either a 12 year old, or a childish older person. Either way, it tells me you're not to be taken seriously.

I agree. I normally don't post about it though. I just assume that everything he says is zealot crap and move on to the next post. Using M$ is the stupidest trend ever catch on. Luckily it died out over 5 years ago...

 

[flexy]

>>>
inux being open source is probably better tested since true geeks can do code inspections.
>>>

OH MY ! We actually have some LINUX <--> WINDOWS comments here..how neat Long time no see...

Linux is SOOOOO thouroughly tested...yes i agree....i couldnt even get UBUNTO live-cd booting 100% because it cant deal with my STANDRAD hardware...obviously a X850XT is "too exotic" for a [otherwise] raved about distribution namedly "ubuntu".

I am still waiting fot the day when i can actually SEE what the hype is about ubuntu....but then i need a working distri which let's me boot and then also do a INSTALL on HD.

Also.."safe graphics mode" in ubunto did not even work ---> black screen

IRONICALLY i started testing Vista w/ 5722 and now RC2....and i had not have ONE problem whatsoever getting this to run...even with my uncenventional way to install it without a DVD.

It even had NF4 chipset drivers etc. "out of the box working"

For the typical linux-user most recent gfx-hardware seems to be a Tseng ET 4000 or something.

Btw...i think your original statement above is therefore proven wrong....we can think what we want about MS...but you cant get around the fact that it (Vista) worked here and linux NOT. And Vista did not even make a secret out of the fact that it was still BETA - nevertheless its up and running here and ubuntu CD is in my trashcan

ADD:

I totally admit that i went with a NEGATIVE attitude towards Linux, there are some things i just cant stand.....as to cite one funny troll from usenet a few years ago "while you linux people are still tweaking by hand and figure out the cmd-line paramaters for XYZ - the Windows user is already up and running"

With that negative attitude i wanted to give Linux a try after several years where i made around with Suse/RedHat...THINKING that ubuntu now MUST really be good and maybe it's more targeted at the human behind the machine as it was..say 6 years ago (and not just for the vi-loving 45 year old linux type person w/ a beard and lice..ok..now i overdid it...sorry .

Anyway...

But..as said my fears were 101% confirmed trying to get this thing to run, running into the most basic problems and facing PAGES over PAGES of Wikis and "tips" how to install X and configure X and whatever....and to d/l and update this. And at this point i STOPPED.

NOT because i am an idiot for whom Linux is over the head - but because of exactly THIS what i did NOT want and what i expected to be gone w/ a recent distribution like ubuntu. Too bad i was wrong

 

[gorcorps]

Meh, using M$ instead of MS is just to show that you think microsoft is a monopolizing dictatorship bent on world domination. Well we all know that now, so why bother w/ the M$?

But it's just as stupid to expect a certain level of "excellence" from a PUBLIC FORUM. A quote comes to mind, "Try to imagine what you would consider normal intelligence. Then take a step back and realize that %85 of the general public don't meet that standard." It really shouldn't matter how he types since you shouldn't be expecting much out of a public forum internet conversation...

 

[flexy]

Gates is the richest man on earth..so the M$ is appropriate Just chill out people

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: flexy
Gates is the richest man on earth..so the M$ is appropriate Just chill out people

this is wayy off topic and doesn't looks to be returning . . . i hate to really see it locked for arguing

i am very sorry that my '$' caused such a ruckus....i was very surprised that it would be seized on . . . at all

if you need to know further about it please only contact me in PMs and i will explain further ... in detail ... and if necessary

ANYway . . . from what others are posting in HDs thread

Vista RC2 Free Download, NOW SERVING
it's over . . . taken down . . . finished

you can still get RC1 which is not very different if you want a 'feel' for Vista

peace and aloha
[PM's enabled]

 

[datalink7]

I think Smilin works for M$.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: apoppin
M$ will never tell us 'why' . . .

just wait for RC3

and the buggy final releaase
[guaranteed]

It's MS, not M$. Be a grown up so that you get taken seriously.

If you can find the person at MS who knows why he's having download trouble I'm quite certain they will tell you. I can tell you for certain what the problem is *not*: some showstopping bug.

There will not be an RC3.

When released, Vista will be the most thoroughly tested new-release OS the world has ever seen. But, unless you want to go back to an OS as simplistic as CPM there will never be an OS released without bugs.

Besides... you're still running Windows 98 *snicker* , what do you care?

well, i guess you figured what it finally meant . . . good for you

i am running Win2k, Smarty.

and i will be getting Vista . . that's 'why'

and nothing you post can ever make us take you seriously
:thumbsdown:
you sound like a "paid ad" for M$ [are you?] . . . i hope you don't believe your own hype
:roll:

You spell MS with an $. You should just go ahead and write "zealot" on your forehead. You won't even catch legitimate *nix admins on these forums doing this: n0cmonkey, drag, nothinman etc. The $ is the mark of an idiot. Wear it proudly then..

Oh I'm sorry... you're running a six year old OS instead of an eight year old OS? You must update your signature about as often as your OS then "smarty". Where do you think I got the info from?

I don't think it qualifies as advertising for MS by rolling my eyes at such a stupid tinfoil hat conspiracy theory statement like, "M$ will never tell us 'why' . . . "

I came into this thread and provided as much honest and factual information as I could to help answer the OPs post. I don't really need some ration of ****** from you or anyone else wearing some MS-proof tinfoil hat.

And yes. Vista will be more thoroughly tested before release than any MS or non-MS desktop OS ever known. If you can prove otherwise, do it. This entire thread was spawned from someone running a beta of Vista. How many OSX beta users do you think there were? How much did Apple or Redhat budget for testing their latest OSs? If you want to get into the same league you're going to have to turn to IBM and OS/400 (which isn't even a desktop OS).

equating M$ with a "zealot' is in your mind only. it may be the 'mark of an idiot' to you . . . but it takes a real idiot to focus in on that instead of substance in a post.

you post useless info about Vista and it just shows you are neither factual nor honest and i certainly have nothing to prove to an idiot or a ridiculer

anyway . .. i DID d/l Vista RC2 after the supposed "stopper" . . .

<== software engineer

Linux being open source is probably better tested since true geeks can do code inspections. It's also a long lasting OS ... so instead of doing an OS from scratch every few years, Linux just continually improves itself.

But what's the point. This is an argument that nobody can win.

Oh, being a software geek ... a common punchline is this:
Q: Why doesn't Microsoft just patch an OS or product till it's nearly perfect?
A: Can't make money by doing that now can we.

I think you forget that for every one geek inspecting Linux os , there are 10,000 geek inspecting MS OS to find vulnerability so they can annoy the Microsoft and its user.

As a software engiener, there is almost nothing better than being able to inspect the code. White box testing vs black box testing. Think about it.